Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[MegasonicZX]

I probably wouldn't mind blue spheres that much since it was my favorite of the classic trilogies but i'd definitely prefer something new, maybe a type of special stage that actually makes use of the games central gameplay mechanics for once but still being something unique that feels good to play.

[Dejimon11]

Look as long as the stupid half pipe from sonic 2 returns I don't care I'll take anything except for that and the special stages from the sonic advance games but let's be honest who remembers those? 

[Muscles Maximum]

As much as I'd love original special stages for this game, I've got a really powerful gut feeling that the special stages here will be really heavily based on blue sphere. People have wanted Taxman & Stealth to remake S3K for years, and the giant rings hidden throughout the stages, plus just the general love most people have for blue sphere.

I'm not saying we'll just be getting 1 to 1 blue sphere stages with new layouts, but I think the special stages will be heavily influenced by them. That wouldn't bother me much, I love blue sphere. But I definitely would be happier with original special stages.

[Adamabba]

I don't have a doubt in my mind that there will be a brand new special stage type. Stealth/Tax know that rehashing old ones isn't what we want, and they rarely disappoint. Unless SEGA forces them to for some reason.

[GeneHF]

So, since this is open back up, let's have a little civil discourse, shall we?

-Should you be worried about the level balance old vs new?

Nah. Yes, I'm quite aware what Iizuka-san said in that interview (I was there!), but Christian, Stealth, and the rest of the team have a good head on their shoulders. They know we've seen Green Hill Zone done more times than Mario's milked World 1-1. Putting a little twist to a certain marketing line, the levels aren't as you truly remembered them. :V At least, I have that much faith in them. Don't take it as me dropping hints (I know some of you are. Shame on you! At my position, I know as much as the rest of you. I just post memes, lol.

(Fun fact: no comps, so I have my own order of the Mania CE filed. It's just roundabout coming back to me anyway~)

-What are the special stages like?

Man, I don't know, I'm just an intern! But what I do know is I'd like Mania to continue the trend from the Genesis games and do something new with the special stages without referencing the others. Part of the joy of the special stages is they were unique per game. So I say, as nice as it'd be to see Blue Spheres back, we already have 34 million ways to play the special stage, so... nay. I'm excited for whatever newness they have

-Retro going silly

Just hit them with a squirt bottle, lol. And besides... we all know I got the booty that breaks the snooty, and makes everyone grab their rooty-tooty point-n-shooties. :V

-Why are you posting all this then?

Because I love messing with and talking to the community at large. And Aaron is sternly looking at me as I type this waiting for me to screw up something.

[Tenko]

It doesn't seem that way what with the new sub-boss in Green Hill Zone, but I wonder if all the bosses will be brand new or if there will be elements from past bosses due to it being an anniversary title.

I personally hope not, Sonic 4 : Episode 1's reuse of bosses made it seem very recycled and cheap. I wouldn't mind seeing boss characters reused tho, for me Metal Sonic is always welcome being he is a major rival of Sonic's, paerhaps a malfunctioning Mecha Sonic in the fallen ruins of Sky Scanturary that have landed in some other zone, Nack the Weasel who is after this "new item" thats akin to the Chaos Emeralds etc, that would be pretty cool for a fan of the original classic era. All the potential remixed zones have me excited at the possibilities, especially with people talking aboutolder zones showing the passage of time, changes, growth, rust and ruin, I can only imagine what Tax/Stealth can come up with when our members here can make interesting ideas like a crashed Death Egg etc.

[Hiki]

1 hour ago, Tenko said:

It doesn't seem that way what with the new sub-boss in Green Hill Zone, but I wonder if all the bosses will be brand new or if there will be elements from past bosses due to it being an anniversary title.

I personally hope not, Sonic 4 : Episode 1's reuse of bosses made it seem very recycled and cheap. I wouldn't mind seeing boss characters reused tho, for me Metal Sonic is always welcome being he is a major rival of Sonic's, paerhaps a malfunctioning Mecha Sonic in the fallen ruins of Sky Scanturary that have landed in some other zone, Nack the Weasel who is after this "new item" thats akin to the Chaos Emeralds etc, that would be pretty cool for a fan of the original classic era. All the potential remixed zones have me excited at the possibilities, especially with people talking aboutolder zones showing the passage of time, changes, growth, rust and ruin, I can only imagine what Tax/Stealth can come up with when our members here can make interesting ideas like a crashed Death Egg etc.

I'm kind of wondering if the sub-bosses will be the only remixed bosses, while we'll get some brand new, really rockin' bosses for the second act bosses.

On the subject of special stages, they might be following the classic trend and cook up something new! I'm hoping for mostly fresh new ideas from this game.

Oh, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aaron make a hint about falling into a cave for Green Hill Zone act 2? That would definitely be a new and interesting take on GHZ.

[GeneHF]

18 minutes ago, SonicEkkusu said:

Oh, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Aaron make a hint about falling into a cave for Green Hill Zone act 2? That would definitely be a new and interesting take on GHZ.

The cave thing is actually in Act 1 on an all new bottom path. You can see it in some of the PAX gameplay videos.

[Hiki]

Just now, GeneHF said:

The cave thing is actually in Act 1 on an all new bottom path. You can see it in some of the PAX gameplay videos.

Oh, I remember that. I also remember some hints about the entrance to act 2 saying "it will be a big autumn- I messed that up!" or something similar to that. XD

[GeneHF]

That was me. Was more a nod to Mushroom Hill 2, lol.

[Hiki]

Just now, GeneHF said:

That was me. Was more a nod to Mushroom Hill 2, lol.

Ohhh! I think I very vaguely remember that! I don't really play the classics all that much, though. I'm an Adventure Era boy!

[Salamander]

I'm sticking to my guns on CD.  I know I'm not the only person who finds much of the original level design weak and unconducive to speed and time-travel, which I'd imagine is because the original developers didn't want time-travelling to be too easy or frequent (which would risk making the gameplay experience somewhat chaotic).  But with time travel very likely out of the equation (though not definitely, I wouldn't put it past this team to put it in just for CD levels), alongside the concomitant necessity of fusing four subtly different maps per act into one, I think there's going to be a certain amount of opportunity to revamp the level design into something that meets more people's expectations of a Sonic game.

7 hours ago, Mightyray said:

If they decide to use Sonic CD levels the one I'd like to see most would be Tidal Tempest zone. I just really liked the US music in that zone and seeing all the ruins. But I think Hydrocity would probably be a much better fit for underwater city.

Tidal Tempest would be my pick for a returning CD stage, too, but I have this sinking feeling that it's not going to happen.  I really like the concept of Tidal Tempest's boss, though; it's simple, but very clever, elegant.  Although the nature of that simplicity is such that, for Mania, I would convert the original boss to the miniboss and have the new boss be a more developed take on the same idea.  ...Quartz Quadrant's boss, on the other hand, kind of really needs reimagining.

On which note...

4 hours ago, Tenko said:

It doesn't seem that way what with the new sub-boss in Green Hill Zone, but I wonder if all the bosses will be brand new or if there will be elements from past bosses due to it being an anniversary title.

I personally hope not, Sonic 4 : Episode 1's reuse of bosses made it seem very recycled and cheap. I wouldn't mind seeing boss characters reused tho, for me Metal Sonic is always welcome being he is a major rival of Sonic's, paerhaps a malfunctioning Mecha Sonic in the fallen ruins of Sky Scanturary that have landed in some other zone, Nack the Weasel who is after this "new item" thats akin to the Chaos Emeralds etc, that would be pretty cool for a fan of the original classic era.

My feeling is that the returning classic bosses will be remixed in a way similar to Sonic 4, but hopefully with more ambition .  I think you're right that the Green Hill miniboss is clearly referencing the original Green Hill boss, and I think the actual boss will likewise have the same concept but redeveloped to be more surprising and challenging.

[Jango]

Again, not including Desert Dazzle or R2 to Mania would be a huuuuge waste. Don't get me wrong, I would love to return to any zone in CD, especially Quartz Quadrant, I adore the aesthetics and the music (JP, Present) is also my favorite in the classics. But man, SEGA owns us Desert Dazzle, when Taxman wanted to add it to the Sonic CD remaster, they said no. But now? Now is the time! Desert Dazzle + R2 mix = ancient ruins burried in the desert, it makes perfect sense. Sonic lacks desert zones (well, up untill Sonic Adventure 2 ?), the R2 concepts display the ruins as mossy (green) and blue-ish, which would be a great color contrast with the orange and red tones of the desert. Even the scrapped badniks could fit a desert zone, see that worm thing with claws that comes out quick sand (CD ending animation).

Please!

[JezMM]

I'm not TOO fussed about Desert Dazzle - it'd be cool but also possibly one of those things where, due to the lack of Time Travel elements, it's not like we'd be getting the Desert Dazzle that would've been.  On the flipside, Hidden Palace in Sonic 2 Mobile wasn't necessarily the Hidden Palace that would've been either so *shrug*.  Honestly Final Fever sounded cool as hell and I've always been more interested in playing that, but that'd work as an inclusion even less than Desert Dazzle here lol.

[expansivelovestories]

8 hours ago, GeneHF said:

That was me. Was more a nod to Mushroom Hill 2, lol.

it is good that it wasn't too specific!! it helped a few weeks pass for some of us, wondering if some of Act 2 of Green Hill would be underwater and/or deep underground.  Now the next amount of time will pass with the sense that it is still fully unknown what Act 2 will be. 

I do think that Sonic Mania ended up being revealed at the perfect time, for there to be just long enough of a wait for its release, and plenty of time for many creative projects to be made by yourself, Aaron and many team members; along with gradual revealing of new aspects, it just feels very balanced! In many ways the original sequence of games are games of balance, within which speed/platforming are ways to be interacting with balance; so it feels very true to form!!

[Indigo Rush]

What was the idea behind Final Fever, by the way?

[TheOcelot]

12 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

What was the idea behind Final Fever, by the way?

It was to be a proper final-boss in Sonic CD which would take place after Metallic Madness Zone 3.

The idea I believe was that Sonic would only be able to damage the boss in the past version of the stage. So there would actually be time-travel in the boss fight.

 

Edit: This is what it says on Retro:

Quote

It was intended to be a boss only for players who had collected all the Time Stones (i.e. encountered in the Good Future only).

Time was to flow freely, and Eggman's machine would be almost invincible: the idea was that Sonic could reach warp speed at any opportunity (instead of having to pass a warp post) and must do so in order to "wind back the clock" and thereby damage Eggman. Some parts are running, whereas in some areas the screen is locked.

The level was to use the Final Fever boss music track from Metallic Madness 3. The Metallic Madness 3 boss would then use the normal boss music if all the Time Stones were collected.

 

[Barley Fields Is Back]

Hopefully this game is most similar to Sonic 2, the best Sonic game =D .

We don't want the silliness of the Sonic games after Sonic and Knuckles. No story and a focus on speed aye  .

Sonic has always been about speed, speed and more speed!

[Indigo Rush]

So far, the game follows Sonic 3 & Knuckles the closest in terms of level structure and act progression, but Studiopolis has some "raw speed" areas similar to Sonic 2's Chemical Plant Zone, so it'd be fair to say that Mania could have a mixture of several level-types. 

[Barley Fields Is Back]

Just now, Indigo Rush said:

So far, the game follows Sonic 3 & Knuckles the closest in terms of level structure and act progression, but Studiopolis has some "raw speed" areas similar to Sonic 2's Chemical Plant Zone, so it'd be fair to say that Mania could have a mixture of several level-types. 

That's great, I wouldn't want the game to stagnate too much like Sonic 3 did!

Sonic 2 was at its best. Sonic is always at its best when there's nothing to interrupt the speed!

[YuTwo]

On the topic of the special stages I think if they don't bring in anything new then I would like Blue Spheres to return.

Besides I think this would be a great chance to bring this in:

That's a concept Stealth made for Sonic 3K remastered and since it would probably be scrapped due to Sonic Team usually not allowing new things into the classics (Egg Gauntlet, Final Fever, and Desert Dazzle as examples) it could be a good chance to place this into Mania since Stealth is also working on it. This could bring up a different type of challenge to these stages.   

 

[Toa Axis]

1 hour ago, Barley Fields Is Back said:

That's great, I wouldn't want the game to stagnate too much like Sonic 3 did!

Sonic 2 was at its best. Sonic is always at its best when there's nothing to interrupt the speed!

Not sure if I'd agree with that. Those moments where you're able to fly through parts of the level uninterrupted, while thrilling, shouldn't make up the bulk of the gameplay. Sonic is a platformer first and foremost, speed is an element that both separates his games from the competition and allow for unique gameplay opportunities. His speed informs the platforming elements and vice versa. The goal is fast-paced platforming with a skill ceiling that allows players who put the time in to fly through stages. Getting to the end of a level uninterrupted is a skill that one builds, not something that's handed to the player on a constant basis.

[PickleBrows]

Something that doesn't really get mentioned about Sonic 3 all that often is how it reimagined and repurposed the Sonic 1 Special Stages. If Mania does get its own Special Stage concept, maybe Blue Sphere could come back in a simpler form to function as a new bonus round.

Now, I say "simpler". I think most will agree that Blue Sphere is a pretty straight-forward scenario that won't really confuse anyone outside of occasionally trying to find the few remaining spheres you missed. What I really mean is scaling back. The Sonic 1 bonus round shrunk the spinning maze to just a single room with the gimmick now being how long you can stay in there instead of being able to navigate from point A to B and gave you the roulette wheel as a suitable motivation to want to stay in there.

Maybe a bonus round version of Blue Sphere could be something like an endless runner scenario where the round goal is simply to jump at the right time to avoid red spheres while Sonic moves automatically. Every X number of blue spheres you collect would net you an item and if you're happy with your loot you can just hit a red sphere to bail out in the same way you'd hit a goal block in the rotating roulette stage when you'd had enough.

I know some might find it sacrilege of me to change Blue Sphere like this but keep in mind that this is only something I'd suggest if it isn't coming back as the main Chaos Emerald Special Stages. Really, the normal gameplay, naturally, takes up most of the runtime, the Special Stages should be occasional detours that don't last more than a few minutes and the bonus rounds should be 30 seconds to a minute tops but are generally available slightly more frequently thanks to checkpoints. Blue Sphere would probably be slightly too long as it is now.

[Indigo Rush]

Is this one of the Bonus Stages, actually?

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Is this one of the Bonus Stages, actually?

I doubt it. It's not normal for special or bonus stages to keep your timer ticking, and that background's used in other parts of the trailer which are just normal gameplay. I'm pretty sure it's just a gimmick for Studiopolis Act 2.