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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

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On 12/11/2016 at 1:48 PM, Hero said:

It's been a while since I've looked at this thread, glad to see the game is shaping up to be amazing. 

Edit: Also, any word on super forms? I know it got retconed, but it'd suck to see Tails and Knuckles in a golden ball instead of going super like in Heroes. 

I'm hoping Iizuka didn't veto the old super forms so we can get Tails' Flickies of Doom again along with Knuckles slamming into walls to kill everything.

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Hopefully, even though the Tails & Knuckles super forms have been declared non-canon, they can still appear here...but just like back then, they just won't be "canon", just a fun little add-on =P (re: Iizuka, trying to determine canon in Sonic games is stupid!!)

Though, we don't even know if the Super Emeralds are going to appear yet, and if they don't, Super Tails might not appear anyway. At any rate, I will honestly be angry if Tails (assuming the Super Emeralds do appear, or they ignore that) and Knuckles are defrauded of their super forms, lol. It would be a blight on an otherwise probably-fantastic game, and completely unnecessary in light of the fact that apparently (I think this is what I've heard, don't quote me on this) Super Tails, Super Knuckles, and Hyper Knuckles were always intended to be non-canon, so there's no reason why they can't still appear as a "bonus goodie" like they (supposedly) were before. I wouldn't put it past Sonic Team to mandate them out of existence for a stupid reason, but I have fairly high hopes that won't happen, especially considering Super Knuckles' and Super Tails' appearance in the Sonic 1 re-release and Tails' in the Sonic 2 re-release. (Super Tails may have been exclusive to debug mode in Sonic 2, but I sincerely hope that's just because they decided in that game to be faithful to him needing the Super Emeralds to transform.)

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On 11/12/2016 at 8:17 PM, Indigo Rush said:

Not exactly - it plays a separate track rather than truly speeding up the music. It's a unique track that breaks the progression of the original music.

It's the worst of both worlds. Generations got this wrong, too.

To be honest I don't consider it "wrong" at all, having non-synthesised music pass over to a sped-up version would require a programming a system to know exactly where to start the "sped-up" version from depending on where the regular track is using a dynamic, mathematical algorithm (i.e. if main track is 40% through, start the speed-up version from 32% through, etc).  Probably not hard but still a time sink, and the end result just won't always sound that good since not every part of a song is gonna sound good when sped-up.

I actually love the way 4 and Generations did it because the musician can choose a particular part of the track that sounds really good sped-up, or use a higher percussion tempo if the melody itself gets butchered at high speed. They can also add additional flourishes to the end point before it returns to regular speed so you know when the power is running out (Generations handled these concepts much more memorably than 4, mind you).  City Escape and Crisis City are probably the coolest two examples of this by having the track jump straight to the point of highest intensity for the duration of the speed-up (and I particularly adore how Ohtani included Crisis City's in the soundtrack version of the song).

I was actually hoping Mania would do speed-up music the same way, but the standalone track here is nice.  I do wish it faded or reached an end before it ran out though.

Along that vein, I'm also glad they added a visual effect to speed-up, since like Invincibility it always bothered me how there were no visual cues for the hard of hearing or those playing with music turned off for whatever reason.  Again though, a signifier that it's about to run out would be appreciated by many (though not as important here as with Invincibility).

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Holy shit it is.

Also, at least Hyper Sonic should/could be included. Both Tails' and Knuckles' super forms were not necessary to 100% the S3&K campaign, while Hyper Sonic was needed to play the Doomsday Zone (I could be wrong, tho). I do feel like they are bonuses, but I wouldn't rule them out because of that, FFS who cares if it's canon or not? It's fun, so why not?

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Nah, Super was enough to get you into Doomsday, both in 3&K and &K alone. There's no canon need for Hyper Sonic.

Anyway as to super forms in general...ehhh I can see the logic in giving Tails and Knuckles their super forms as a non-canon bonus, but I'm too much a supporter of limiting super forms to endorse it myself.

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On 12/14/2016 at 9:07 PM, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Hopefully, even though the Tails & Knuckles super forms have been declared non-canon, they can still appear here...but just like back then, they just won't be "canon", just a fun little add-on =P (re: Iizuka, trying to determine canon in Sonic games is stupid!!)

Though, we don't even know if the Super Emeralds are going to appear yet, and if they don't, Super Tails might not appear anyway. At any rate, I will honestly be angry if Tails (assuming the Super Emeralds do appear, or they ignore that) and Knuckles are defrauded of their super forms, lol. It would be a blight on an otherwise probably-fantastic game, and completely unnecessary in light of the fact that apparently (I think this is what I've heard, don't quote me on this) Super Tails, Super Knuckles, and Hyper Knuckles were always intended to be non-canon, so there's no reason why they can't still appear as a "bonus goodie" like they (supposedly) were before. I wouldn't put it past Sonic Team to mandate them out of existence for a stupid reason, but I have fairly high hopes that won't happen, especially considering Super Knuckles' and Super Tails' appearance in the Sonic 1 re-release and Tails' in the Sonic 2 re-release. (Super Tails may have been exclusive to debug mode in Sonic 2, but I sincerely hope that's just because they decided in that game to be faithful to him needing the Super Emeralds to transform.)

I have an answer for you on the Super Emeralds. And that answer is...

...

... nah.

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Wait, there was discussion about how the Super Emeralds might be in Mania?

I think that will only be a 3&K thing and always will be, as cool it was to have the Flicky Army of Death and Super Seizure Hog back, it probably won't be in Mania 1.

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8 minutes ago, Soni said:

Wait, there was discussion about how the Super Emeralds might be in Mania?

I think that will only be a 3&K thing and always will be, as cool it was to have the Flicky Army of Death and Super Seizure Hog back, it probably won't be in Mania 1.

I love their inclusion in Sonic 3&K. Makes the whole experience that bit more special. 

But yeah, they were only ever for the purpose of the 3&K lock-on and have been ignored by Sonic Team ever since. Their appearance in the LEGO Dimensions add-on was pretty rad.

I don't think they'll appear in Mania, but knowing Taxmam & Stealth as we do, I'm sure they'll sneak a reference to them in one of the zones.

I'd also like to see a reference to the time stones, hell if you are able to time-travel in the Sonic CD re-imagined stages on Little Planet then, NUFF SAID, THIS IS THE BEST CLASSIC SONIC GAME EVER :P

Hell, why not also reference the Chaos Rings from Chaotix?! 

I think Tails & Knuckles should also get a super-form like Sonic, but as I've said before I think Sonic Team will want Mania to keep to the original canon, in that both Sonic & Knux get super forms from the chaos emeralds but Tails can't. Hope I'm wrong. To hell with canon, it's been 20 years, give dat Foxboy his super-form...

Image result for Sonic 3 & knuckles Super Tails flicky army of death gif

...and his flicky army of death

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I'd be surprised if Whitehead doesn't include Super Emeralds to be honest. He's a huge, huge Sonic fan, going as far restoring and recreating cut content and beta animations. Knowing Whitehead, if he can include Hyper forms, he will.

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19 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I'd be surprised if Whitehead doesn't include Super Emeralds to be honest. He's a huge, huge Sonic fan, going as far restoring and recreating cut content and beta animations. Knowing Whitehead, if he can include Hyper forms, he will.

He won't.

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To be honest, I personally don't really care about Super Emeralds or hyper forms that much. Super Tails would be nice, acknowledging an old bit of "canon" would be nice, but I'm not sure if it'd be worth the confusion that they created because it's not exactly clear what they even are and they haven't been clearly referenced elsewhere in Sonic media. If they're not included, I actually don't want Super Tails to be able to go super with the normal Chaos Emeralds, I thought it was interesting that he couldn't, especially since it makes sense to me that Sonic and Knuckles would be "special" (Sonic has a connection to the Emeralds, even if no one knows exactly why beyond him being the main character, and Knuckles is their guardian) and more able to utilize chaos energy. Basically, I could take or leave the Super Emeralds, really. I honestly don't care at all if they don't appear but I wouldn't mind if they did.

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1 hour ago, Slingerland said:

He won't.

Sorry, but what do you actually do for SEGA?

You are a nobody as far as I'm concerned, and you seem to get away with all kinds of baiting and trolling, kinds that no other forum user would get away with. It would make sense if you were somewhat well known, like RubyEclipse, but I've never heard of you in my life.

Whitehead would include them if he could, it's totally in his style. He's the kind of guy who reincorporates beta animations for crying out loud.

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Just now, Pixel said:

Whitehead would include them if he could, it's totally in his style. He's the kind of guy who reincorporates beta animations for crying out loud.

What special insight do you have into Taxman's head? He obviously has a lot of love and appreciation for the classics, but that doesn't mean he's going to throw in every last oldschool reference he can think of.

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6 minutes ago, Pixel said:

You are a nobody as far as I'm concerned, and you seem to get away with all kinds of baiting and trolling, kinds that no other forum user would get away with. 

Not that I'm a fan of the blatant baiting of staff, but this is not helping.

Also even if they wanted to include Super Emeralds, I'm not so sure if SEGA would let 'em. Which I think is fair since they always seemed like a non-canon bonus (which, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure has been confirmed).

Edited by Celestia

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Even then, they could always include the super emeralds as a non canon extra. Maybe after you beat the game, you can replay, and collect the super emeralds instead. It would unlock hyper forms, but would still be non-canon.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

What special insight do you have into Taxman's head? He obviously has a lot of love and appreciation for the classics, but that doesn't mean he's going to throw in every last oldschool reference he can think of.

It's very likely considering that he's consistently been making every conceivable obscure reference to the Classic titles he can, going as far as to reincorporate beta animations. 

Considering his track record, it would honestly be more unexpected that Hyper Forms don't appear (even if the Super Emeralds don't). The Hyper Forms just fit right into what he's been previously doing.

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1 minute ago, Pixel said:

It's very likely considering that he's consistently been making every conceivable obscure reference to the Classic titles he can, going as far as to reincorporate beta animations. 

Considering his track record, it would honestly be more unexpected that Hyper Forms don't appear (even if the Super Emeralds don't). The Hyper Forms just fit right into what he's been previously doing.

I have to agree. I really hope Hyper Forms get in. They are a next level of badass, and are a ton of fun. Again, if they do not want them to be canon, there are other ways they can go.

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