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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic


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17 hours ago, FReaK said:

I'm starting to feel really curious to how far they are into development right now, since all the builds we have seen so far are old builds, even the one from the very first demo..but I doubt tax or anyone will give us a status update regarding that.

This is part for the course with game development as far as I'm aware.  Unless they want to provide access to a new level, there's no point updating demo builds if the existing ones work fine.  Every time they do they have to give it a bug testing pass and such that is not as exhaustive as, but similar to, bug testing the final version of the game, which is just wasted development time if, as said, there is nothing wrong with the existing ones.  In short, the fact that the demo versions are old has zero bearing on how far along they are whatsoever.

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16 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

It feels like it's still early in development for me, but I think that mostly has to do with the fact that they've released so little info and Spring is right around the corner.

My guess is Mania started development in 2015. So, assuming they're still on course for meeting the Spring release-window and there's nothing to suggest they aren't, then they should be getting close to the end of the development cycle.

SEGA not having released much info at this point isn't surprising. They've never been the best at advertising their games and we have a good idea of what we're getting anyway; we've seen countless videos of gameplay over the last few months and learned little tidbits of info. Perhaps SEGA really are trying to keep as quite as possible so that we have plenty of surprises in store.

Even if the release date isn't announcd at SXSW I wouldn't be overly concerned. The end of the release-window is 20th June which is a loooooooooong way away. Still plenty of time. 

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On 2/26/2017 at 0:56 PM, JezMM said:

I'm sure I've said something to this effect previously but since it's relevant: Regarding Mirage Saloon, a part of me hopes that they used the Act 1 music in the demo version.  We all know that song so well now, it'll be weird to hear the two acts in reverse order.  Act 1 is forever going to sound like "the remix" to us otherwise, due to how familiar we now are with Act 2.

^_^  I think you are correct, maybe it is still the matching music track, but,  Act 1 itself is actually more unusual than Act 2 and therefore its music is too!   

It could be very possible for the team to have decided to every now and then alternate which Act is more out of the ordinary compared to the other!  S3K's style was specifically to have most every Act 2 be more dynamic in various ways.  I'm sure this continues to be true for some of the Mania zones but perhaps not all of them!  :)^_^    

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6 hours ago, EllieBot said:

Even if the release date isn't announcd at SXSW I wouldn't be overly concerned.

I'm not too concerned at this point. I'm only saying it doesn't feel like it's around the corner given the drip feed of information (seven months and we've had three acts and that's it.) Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want it any other way, and I seriously question if I even want to see more of the game beyond a level count and release date. I don't doubt at this point that they're on track, because there's been no indication to suggest otherwise.

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7 hours ago, EllieBot said:

My guess is Mania started development in 2015. So, assuming they're still on course for meeting the Spring release-window and there's nothing to suggest they aren't, then they should be getting close to the end of the development cycle.

SEGA not having released much info at this point isn't surprising. They've never been the best at advertising their games and we have a good idea of what we're getting anyway; we've seen countless videos of gameplay over the last few months and learned little tidbits of info. Perhaps SEGA really are trying to keep as quite as possible so that we have plenty of surprises in store.

Even if the release date isn't announcd at SXSW I wouldn't be overly concerned. The end of the release-window is 20th June which is a loooooooooong way away. Still plenty of time. 

I dunno... This isn't some big budget 3D title so I think Mania might have a little over a year behind its belt. 2015 seems like too much for something of Mania's level, especially with assets being recycled and/or essentially traced over for a new coat of paint kind of look.

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Well, although the engine was already programmed by the time they started Sonic Mania, the pre-production time must have been long. Thinking about levels themes, gimmicks, story and stuff is not something that could be done in a couple of months. I don't think it's crazy that they started working on the game in late 2015.

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Tee Lopes has a new site!

https://www.teelopesmusic.com/

Conveniently it also answers the current question in this thread on his about me page:

" In 2015 PWG joined in collaboration with Christian Whitehead and Stealth to create Sonic Mania, and Tee Lopes was the number one choice to tackle the soundtrack,for which he is best known today. "

So yeah, 2015. That's what I expected anyways. 

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Considering Sonic 2 & 3 both had a little over a year of development, it's safe to assume Mania has had a similar development cycle. I wouldn't be surprised if Taxman and Stealth already had a few level ideas bouncing around in their heads before they were even given the greenlight to start, and with Sega having them re-imagine old levels, I'm sure the conceptual stage was much shorter than it would've been otherwise.

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Yeah, there's more than enough clues to indicate development began in 2015. Stealth confirming he was working on a project in that year, he also asked for the community behind Sonic 3 Remastered to hold back on the campaign (likely because Mania was being negotiated/contracts being signed) and I recall a E3 2015 photo of Taxman & PWG staff.

So yeah, Mania's had plenty of development time and should be well on course for it's Spring release.

Quote

Tee Lopes is a creative mind, known predominantly as a video game composer, but also as a songwriter, singer, arranger, voice over artist, DJ and occasional graphic designer.


However, when the chance to create music for a video game arrived, he immediately fell in love with the industry and made it his goal instead, to become a full-time videogame composer.

in 2008, Tee posted the first of many Sonic The Hedgehog remixes on his YouTube page, gathering some notoriety amongst the Sonic fan community. He was soon noticed by Jared Kasl and Tom Fry, who after working together on a well known fan project, decided to form PagodaWest games, and hire Tee to create his first full soundtrack for the award-winning "Major Magnet" for iPhone/iPad, which gave him his first real taste of envisioning a fully fledged musical world. He has worked with a few other indie developers on some smaller projects, while composing jingles and instrumentals for advertisements, and singing cover music at bars and restaurants.

In 2015 PWG joined in collaboration with Christian Whitehead and Stealth to create Sonic Mania, and Tee Lopes was the number one choice to tackle the soundtrack,for which he is best known today.

Tee should definitely be first choice to create music for future 2d classic games.

Image result for hunger games haymitch he know what he's doing gif

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On 2/28/2017 at 3:16 PM, Tracker_TD said:

Tee Lopes has a new site!

https://www.teelopesmusic.com/

Conveniently it also answers the current question in this thread on his about me page:

" In 2015 PWG joined in collaboration with Christian Whitehead and Stealth to create Sonic Mania, and Tee Lopes was the number one choice to tackle the soundtrack,for which he is best known today. "

So yeah, 2015. That's what I expected anyways. 

Both Christian and Stealth mentioned they were working on unnamed projects way back then as well.

Christian last updated his site on April of 2016 and the last bullet point on it mentions that he is continuing to work on some projects that are yet to be announced. One of these projects could have possibly have been Sonic Mania.

Here's the post:

58b5e44559778_TaxmanPost.thumb.png.03bb75237f73bf3c7d466a3fd561d3ba.png

In Stealth's blog he made a post dated December of 2015 in which it mentions he went under contract but never said what it was for.

Here's that post:

58b5ed50dda17_StealthPost.thumb.png.4b2d8da70877a15e4b4e2a9a87f3fc92.png

These posts could confirm they were developing for Mania since Stealth's post was dated in 2015 which could add on to what Tee Lopes page mentions on in joining with Christian and Stealth in that same year. If this is the case then the clues on Mania's development where there all this time.

EDIT:

I also found the photo with Taxman and PagodaWest staff:

 

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Christian looks like a total rebel, an icon of modern youth, thus he has the skill and style to work on Sonic.

Mr. Iizuka... Tries too hard.

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It's still not likely I know, but the official Sonic Twitter account just used Nack/Fang in a meme post, they actually acknowledged him, so I'm just going to continue my wishful thinking that Nack/Fang might have a shot of appearing in Sonic Mania beyond the wanted poster. (Pun not intended but I'm totally running with it).

It also has me wondering if the Casino Night backdrop is just in reference to his level trope in Fighters, or if its one of those illusive clues they like putting in posts.

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I would be ok with Casino Night in Mania, but damnit just give me Mystic Cave if we're only getting one level from Sonic 2.

It'd also be cool if Nack is in it. Any of The Boys, really. I'd be down for them taking on a Knuckles-esque role in the story, impeding the player's progress.

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Today is 1st March, we're already in (meteorological) spring, WHER'S MAH SANIC???

Now seriously: I'm placing all my bets on a 25th April release, since it falls on a Tuesday and doesn't look at all to be a placeholder data. And the SXSW panel is just two weeks away, I'm pretty sure we will know the date by that day.

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3 hours ago, Ajavalo said:

Today is 1st March, we're already in (meteorological) spring, WHER'S MAH SANIC???

Now seriously: I'm placing all my bets on a 25th April release, since it falls on a Tuesday and doesn't look at all to be a placeholder data. And the SXSW panel is just two weeks away, I'm pretty sure we will know the date by that day.

I'm also hoping for that April 25th date. It seems the most plausible out of all the suspected dates, and the timing of SXSW lines up good. Just over two weeks until we - hopefully - know for sure.

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April 25 would be very good in the sense that Mania was created partially as a celebration 4 the 25th anniversary.  I think this would again allow May to be a month long celebration too of the release and everyone exploring the game!

It is also really a positive that they have not indicated how many zones from each original game are actually included.  There are many low estimates that are quite possibly accurate that also are keeping expectations at a pleasant simmer; but I am also remaining curious that it will be quite different from Generations' single zone approach!   

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20 hours ago, Maxtiis said:

Considering Sonic 2 & 3 both had a little over a year of development, it's safe to assume Mania has had a similar development cycle. I wouldn't be surprised if Taxman and Stealth already had a few level ideas bouncing around in their heads before they were even given the greenlight to start, and with Sega having them re-imagine old levels, I'm sure the conceptual stage was much shorter than it would've been otherwise.

Imho, creating a Sonic game takes much more time than remastering it. 

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1 minute ago, molul said:

Imho, creating a Sonic game takes much more time than remastering it. 

He wasn't talking about the remasters, he meant the original games. 

Saying that, I find em kind of hard to compare; I mean, Sonic 2's infamous for it's cut content due to time constraints for instance. 

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To think that the next two games are probably the first ones that won't be rushed.

If Sonic 2, considered by many the best Sonic game was rushed, imagine if it wasn't.

What other game from the series wasn't rushed for certain date?

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

He wasn't talking about the remasters, he meant the original games. 

Saying that, I find em kind of hard to compare; I mean, Sonic 2's infamous for it's cut content due to time constraints for instance. 

True. Sonic 3 was also meant to be another yearly release which got pushed back to 1994 and split in half. It's good SEGA are giving Tax & co plenty of development time. I've been wanting a new 2d classic game like...forever and the last thing I want is for Mania to be rushed and for the final product to end up not as good as it could be.

32 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

If Sonic 2, considered by many the best Sonic game was rushed, imagine if it wasn't.

If Sonic 2 wasn't rushed then I might consider it a good game :V

With the excellent Hidden Palace included in the mobile remaster I almost like Sonic 2 XD

The hardcore fanbase considers 3&K the best. Whereas the more casual fanbase opt for Sonic 2 for several reasons, such as the original Sonic 2 being bundled with the Mega-Drive/Genesis and 3&K wasn't. Being split into two halves (S3 and S&K) definitely hurt 3&K's overall sales compared to Sonic 2. I also think a lot of people prefer Sonic 2's shorter more simplistic level design. Sonic 2 is a much easier game.

I wonder what kind of sales figures we can expect for Mania?

 

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

He wasn't talking about the remasters, he meant the original games. 

Saying that, I find em kind of hard to compare; I mean, Sonic 2's infamous for it's cut content due to time constraints for instance. 

I'd still say that they're worth comparing. Even though Sega claims they're going to focus more on quality over quantity (and considering how long they've kept us waiting compared to how they used to, I'm inclined to believe them for now) I'm sure Mania's devs still have similar time constraints and deadlines to meet. Other than that, comparing Mania's devs to 1992 Sonic Team is probably night and day.

Sonic Team had massive shoes to fill with Sonic 2, through which they had to work through a language barrier with the guys a Sega Technical Institute, they were still trying to figure out what did and didn't work with the Sonic formula by this point which you can see based off what they decided to cut, and they only had a year to complete it, and they had to design enough brand new level designs to fill a full price game a good portion were dropped due to time. If modern game development still operated like this, there'd be way more steaming piles of whats-it around. 

By comparison Mania's devs have it far easier. Expectations for a Sonic game to the general audience are pretty much at the lowest they've been since Sonic '06 thanks to Sonic Boom, and considering Sonic Team is also making their own game, they likely have far less pressure and criticism by comparison to the guys that literally have Sonic in their name. They're also building off of years of experience developing fan games based on the formula that Sonic Team, in our eyes, perfected over 20 years ago in Sonic 3,they're using an engine Taxman designed himself that from my understanding is easy to utilize and has proven itself by literally rebuilding Sonic 1, 2, and CD from scratch, and while they're bringing new and larger designs to them, over half the game is using old level concepts and themes, which I mentioned before makes the conceptual stage much less taxing than if they were coming up with completely new levels for the entire game. 

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying that making a game is easy. Hell no. I certainly wouldn't be capable of something like this even with access to their development tools. What I am saying is game development for these guys is far simpler than it was for Sonic Team 25 years ago. And that's great. I'd much rather these guys enjoy creating a new Sonic game than for it to be a living hell. It's usually the games that you can tell a developer had a blast making it that end up being the most fun.

And apologies for the essay, but I like to make my forum posts count y'know?

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The Taxman, Tee and PWG at E3 2015! ? It was under our nose the whole time! Stealth probably joined them last (in December 2015), since that's the date he said on his blog that he would be getting into a new project.

 

It's safe to assume that Mania is very close to be finished. I like that they've only showed the necessary so far: spot-on physics, pixelated graphics and 3 playable characters. The zones, bosses and surprises I want to find out by myself when I play the game! Unlike Gens, lol. Even if the leaked didn't happened, SEGA spoiled everything... Except Classic Eggman. Anyways! My bet is May.

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I wonder if this game will have tons of cut content and then 20 or so years from now it'll get a remaster made by some newly-hired fans who decide to incorporate some of it.

Spoiler

:P

 

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So... Am uh...

...Am I the only one hoping this version of Metal Sonic returns...?

Metal2.jpg

P.S. - This design will FOREVER be better than the regular Metal Sonic.

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I've never understood the appeal of that design. Weird bulgy head, all sorts of bulky bits, proportions that would fit better in '06...spikes and color aside it barely even looks like Sonic. Metal and even Silver Sonic look like honest attempts to create a robot Sonic, while Mecha looks like someone who had only been given a vague description of Sonic and had never seen him tried to redesign him as a Michael Bay style Transformer.

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