Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Jango]

Time travel can be writen right and can be great, be it a movie or a game. Just sayin'. You pessimist people already think it will be bad or overcomplicated because 06 left that sour taste in our mouths, but really? It worked with CD, it worked with Gens.

I don't want a barebone story like "Eggman wants to rule shit, stop him", this isn't Mario. And I'm not asking for a Donnie Darko type of story either, I just don't want an "excuse" to play the game. I've just saw people here coming with interesting ideas and you all are already whining. Sonic has a lot of cool mytos that could be expanded Upon, but no, let's just say "Sonic and co. needs to stop Eggman, the end". [emoji19]

[Dizcrybe]

Honestly an excuse plot is probably most likely.

[Darinian]

Well that kinda was how 1, 2, and 3 worked

[FriendBot]

4 minutes ago, Jango said:

it worked with Gens.

Generations had a plot?

[Baconjack]

3 minutes ago, Soni said:

Generations had a plot?

Yes, but it wasn't anything special. That's Generations and every main series game post-Unleashed in a nutshell.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

Time travel can be writen right and can be great, be it a movie or a game. Just sayin'.

Of course it can, the problem is, would it be. Given the history of this series' writing, I doubt it would. And it's not just about quality, it's a tired idea. It's not a gimmick they should be dipping into every 2 or 3 games, practically any other idea would be preferable just for not being time travel yet again.

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

You pessimist people already think it will be bad or overcomplicated because 06 left that sour taste in our mouths, but really? It worked in CD, it worked on Gens.

Gens' story is pretty much garbage, and both of those stories are very minimalist, doing little more than tacking time travel onto the kind of "barebones" stories you say you don't want.

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

I've just saw people here coming with interesting ideas and you all already whining.

Time travel is not an interesting idea for a Sonic game, that's the point. It's been done to death.

[Indigo Rush]

3 hours ago, FFWF said:

Sonic 1 and 2 never really gave me the impression that the islands they were set on were important at all; I always regarded it as a throwaway detail.

Not a personal comment, but it always disheartens me that the backstories of South Island and Westside Island are frequently overlooked. The game manuals often expounded on the places that Sonic and friends visited and added incidental detail to the worlds we explored without removing any of the mystique. Angel Island is given more praise, I believe, because it was given further development in Sonic Adventure.

I wonder how many fans know that South Island is the only island in Sonic's world that drifts along the ocean and can't be found on a map, or how many fans know that Westside Island is known as the "Island of Illusions," and was inhabited by an advanced civilization with philosophers (of alchemic persuasion, we can assume) who studied the Chaos Emeralds and used them for evil, but the civilization vanished overnight for their deeds.

It's nothing terribly deep, but there's actual lore to be found there. One of my hopes with Sonic Mania is that the histories of these islands and Zones are fleshed out a little bit more. If we're revisiting them, I want more details at the very least. I want to see the Classic Era come together in more ways than just gameplay and visuals.

[JezMM]

Much as I like some of the more complex ideas given here, I wonder how they could be eloquently explained using pantomime textless cut-scenes, while also not alienating those who don't know/remember any of the lore established in the classic games - in or out of the backstories.

24 minutes ago, Jango said:

And I'm not asking for a Donnie Darko type of story either, I just don't want an "excuse" to play the game.

Speak for yourself this is exactly what the Sonic series needs if you ask me.

 

"Why are you wearing that stupid hedgehog suit?"

"...Why are you wearing that stupid egg-man suit?"

[Indigo Rush]

With the manuals, of course. Just like the good ol' days when mother used to love me.

Spoiler

To expound on the island collision plot idea, you could have incidental visual details in the backgrounds of certain Zones similar to Sonic 3, or perhaps a simple text blurb in the game's attract mode. At the very least we're establishing that places like South Island and Angel Island are still canonical places to go. It's theoretical at this point, but if we can see the Death Egg asleep in the backgrounds of Lava Reef and Hidden Palace, it should also be possible to show other islands slowly approaching the mainland in the background or the Miracle Planet in the sky in other levels in Sonic Mania. Folks who don't know or care can just blow through the game and have a good time, and those who pay attention to those details and such can enjoy their references and lore expansion.

 

[Tracker_TD]

30 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

With the manuals, of course. Just like the good ol' days when mother used to love me.

I've been working on a manual for Mania, this clearly gives me authority on the plot. So BEHOLD:

There, sorted. Nailed it. 100% accurate prediction. 

[Cyrus]

Oh yeah, that's where I read the Eggman-making-the-island thing, I think it was on /vg/.

[Jango]

That island is pure aesthetical. I don't think it got anything to do with anything.

[Indigo Rush]

Unless it's "Sonic World" from Sonic Jam?

 

...wait. That may actually be a plausible scenario.

ohno

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

Unless it's "Sonic World" from Sonic Jam?

 

...wait. That may actually be a plausible scenario.

ohno

.... and hasn't the line "What if Classic Sonic continued on the Saturn?" been dropped once or twice?

... Sonic Mania is sequel to Sonic Jam... within Sonic Jam itself!

[MegasonicZX]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

.... and hasn't the line "What if Classic Sonic continued on the Saturn?" been dropped once or twice?

... Sonic Mania is sequel to Sonic Jam... within Sonic Jam itself!

I guess you could call it a...JAM-(CEPT)SSION!

I'll be leaving now.

[TheOcelot]

Something worth considering is the  "new item appearing in Mania not used before" which was teased in the twitch stream.

Now, "new item" is a pretty broad term. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's related to the plot rather than being a bonus/special stage collectable or just a new item box of some kind.

So how about (wacky theory incoming):

Eggman has unleashed another fiendish plot to try and take over the world. Sonic (Tails or Knuckles) for whatever reason have no choice but to return to South Island and revisit Green Hill (first zone in Mania). Sonic goes deep into the caverns of "the new" act2 of Green Hill (unexplored territory aka reimagined design which he didn't visit in Sonic 1) where he finds the NEW ITEM. Maybe it's some kind of ancient power crystal? Sonic then has to use this item to teleport/warp/transport himself to the other islands to revisit the specific-zones (reimagined levels) because Eggman has hidden something in them or done something to them (altered their appearance maybe, which could help explain as to why they look so different-reimagined) and Sonic must free the zones from Eggman's control and also visit new islands which have the new stages like Studiopolis, where Eggman has also been up to no good.

Seems a bit more feasible than "Sonic uses the NEW ITEM to bring all previous stages to a special-island because he's a lazy ass and can't be bothered to travel to each island by biplane.

Actually, I would quite like the Tornado biplane to appear in Mania.

Maybe, the brand new stages - like Studiopolis - don't even take place on a new island. Maybe each new zone takes place on one of the existing islands; South Island, West Side Island, Floating Island or Little Planet. Maybe due to the extent of Eggman's medalling he has created these new zones on the existing islands to try and take down Sonic???

At any rate, I think the new ITEM will be important to the story.

Taxman said that "what you would normally expect to happen in 3&K, something totally different happens in Mania". I think this refers to the end-of-zone transitions, which is where my theory of teleport/warp/transport i.e. getting to the next stage on a different island via an unorthodox method comes into it.  

[Salamander]

11 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Not a personal comment, but it always disheartens me that the backstories of South Island and Westside Island are frequently overlooked. The game manuals often expounded on the places that Sonic and friends visited and added incidental detail to the worlds we explored without removing any of the mystique. Angel Island is given more praise, I believe, because it was given further development in Sonic Adventure.

I wonder how many fans know that South Island is the only island in Sonic's world that drifts along the ocean and can't be found on a map, or how many fans know that Westside Island is known as the "Island of Illusions," and was inhabited by an advanced civilization with philosophers (of alchemic persuasion, we can assume) who studied the Chaos Emeralds and used them for evil, but the civilization vanished overnight for their deeds.

It's nothing terribly deep, but there's actual lore to be found there. One of my hopes with Sonic Mania is that the histories of these islands and Zones are fleshed out a little bit more. If we're revisiting them, I want more details at the very least. I want to see the Classic Era come together in more ways than just gameplay and visuals.

I do find this regrettable, but it is also inevitable when the games themselves do nothing to foreground that information.  Angel Island's praise may come partly from its revisit in Adventure, but I would suggest it is largely because S3&K (and to a lesser extent CD), put their lore front and centre - in level transitions, background details, cutscenes.  If Mania wants to have a substantial plot, it must do the same - and I think it will; if it could represent the lost canon from 1 and 2, that would be ideal.  Unfortunately, I do also note that Mania's Collector's Edition lists no paper manual, which I would have considered a shoo-in for inclusion if anything special was planned for it.

2 minutes ago, BenderTheBatman said:

Taxman said that "what you would normally expect to happen in 3&K, something totally different will happen in Mania". I think that refers to the end-of-zone transitions, which is where my theory of teleport/warp/transport, i.e. getting to the next stage on a different island via an unorthodox method comes into it.  

I have to admit, I wouldn't favour that.  The point of the zone transitions in S3&K is to create an organic sense of connection between the zones in the games; it's one of the factors that gives the 3&K levels a sense of place.  If Sonic just warps everywhere, it's not fundamentally any different from just "fade to black, suddenly a completely different place."  I think Taxman was more nodding to the nature of the reimaginings; I believe the original quote was "in a zone from Sonic 3 & Knuckles," which is more ambiguous.

Could the "new item" be something akin to those gears Eggman is going after in the Mega Drive comic?  Everywhere Sonic tracks down Eggman, the doctor is digging up some particular relic or gimmick, which Sonic promptly nicks from him on defeat (an approach similar to how the Sol Emeralds were handled in Rush).  Maybe it would have to be a defeat in good time, or else Eggman would get the item anyway and use them to trigger a bad ending?  Or the best ending comes from having all of these items and the Chaos Emeralds...

[Indigo Rush]

This is why I'm predicting/advocating a sort of collision or merging of the islands to accommodate that organic flow from one Zone to another. If Sonic just warps and boom, he's gone from Green Hill straight to Studiopolis, what's the fundamental difference between that and just cutting to a black screen and instantly moving to the next Zone?

For example, Green Hill might be on South Island and Hydrocity in Angel Island, but it's a cooler prospect to see Sonic end GHZ Act 2 by falling down one of those big bridges (also, some GG/MS Bridge Zone references would be cool) and he falls down into the ruins of Hydrocity Zone, then at the end of that level, Sonic gets flushed into an ancient drainpipe that launches him out of the water reserves in Studiopolis Zone, which is actually the background city of Casino Night Zone. 

Stuff like that, yknow?

[Multikaris]

On 9/24/2016 at 2:04 PM, Indigo Rush said:

Not a personal comment, but it always disheartens me that the backstories of South Island and Westside Island are frequently overlooked. The game manuals often expounded on the places that Sonic and friends visited and added incidental detail to the worlds we explored without removing any of the mystique. Angel Island is given more praise, I believe, because it was given further development in Sonic Adventure.

I wonder how many fans know that South Island is the only island in Sonic's world that drifts along the ocean and can't be found on a map, or how many fans know that Westside Island is known as the "Island of Illusions," and was inhabited by an advanced civilization with philosophers (of alchemic persuasion, we can assume) who studied the Chaos Emeralds and used them for evil, but the civilization vanished overnight for their deeds.

It's nothing terribly deep, but there's actual lore to be found there. One of my hopes with Sonic Mania is that the histories of these islands and Zones are fleshed out a little bit more. If we're revisiting them, I want more details at the very least. I want to see the Classic Era come together in more ways than just gameplay and visuals.

That's one thing 4 lacked, which put me off. (Well, we did get some bits on the lore (The island it is set on is called Mirage Island, and the Kentopia region encompasses the second game in the series) from Balough and later Aaron Webber, but it was too little too late and it may be taken as jokes, and earlier, the website referred to E2's setting as a continent) I still wonder what that black orb was...

[Cyrus]

Has Sonic ever saved rats before?

[Adamabba]

22 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

Has Sonic ever saved rats before?

There are rats in Sonic 2

[Diogenes]

23 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

Has Sonic ever saved rats before?

Yes, apparently:

Looks like the same sprite, even.

[Cyrus]

Oh, I forgot about those...

[Raijin]

Hi everyone. I'm a lapsed Sonic fan. But Sonic Mania looks like a dream come true and I'm so happy to be excited for Sonic again :).  

I hope I can contribute to this site  . 

[gato]

2 minutes ago, Raijin said:

Hi everyone. I'm a lapsed Sonic fan. But Sonic Mania looks like a dream come true and I'm so happy to be excited for Sonic again :).  

I hope I can contribute to this site  . 

Hi, hope you enjoy your stay here.

 

And while we are on the topic, have we ever know why South Island is called South Island if it's constantly moving? With this in consideration, can we safely assume there is an east and north island?

And what would Eggman want with those islands anyway?

With that said, while most of the time Eggman is behind something big to fuel his ambitions I wouldn't be mad if this one time his whole plan would just be "I want to get rid of Sonic", we had those on various cartoons across the years.