Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[Wraith]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

For some reason I feel that demotes Mania... ^^;

If you read too deeply into it maybe. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

If you read too deeply into it maybe. 

I know that's pretty much the fact of the matter but it still feels like taking a knife in a way... Ha ha.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

In this regard, Project Sonic 2017 could end up like Sonic Unleashed, with two separate versions of the game being made of necessity thanks to Nintendo's weaker hardware design.

That's a choice, not a necessity. They could have one game across multiple consoles of different strengths so long as they design the game with that in mind.

[Kintor]

23 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That's a choice, not a necessity. They could have one game across multiple consoles of different strengths so long as they design the game with that in mind.

Not so, when the differences between the strongest and weakest platforms are so great. We first saw this with the Wii and then a second time with the Wii U, Nintendo hardware was so far behind the competition that no amount of compromises could make-up the difference and only a weaker version was the only option left. Project Sonic 2017 might well share the same fate. But Sonic Mania probably will work out fine.

[Polkadi~☆]

...Wait, why are we talking about P17 on the Mania topic?

This ain't right. Let's get back on track.

Do you think we'll see anything else from Mania at SXSW?

[CleverSonicUsername]

3 hours ago, EmmBee said:

It might be worth pointing out too that Ducktales eventually got a disc release after that code-in-a-box crap.

 I mean Duck Tales is not the end-all-be-all. There's plenty of "physical" releases that are just codes in a box. My point is, until SEGA themselves says something, it's not really productive to point to all these game site listings like it's a sure fire thing.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, CleverSonicUsername said:

 I mean Duck Tales is not the end-all-be-all. There's plenty of "physical" releases that are just codes in a box. My point is, until SEGA themselves says something, it's not really productive to point to all these game site listings like it's a sure fire thing.

...While the topic of Disney content is in the air I'm still MIFFED the Wii U didn't get that Castle Of Illusion remake, it needed everything it could get...

That aside, yeah, Mania, how about Special Stages where you race Metal Sonic for the emeralds...?

[molul]

On 13/2/2017 at 1:00 PM, Zippo said:

And here we go.  Sonic News blowout in the Lone Star State next month.

http://schedule.sxsw.com/2017/events/PP96507

I'll definitely be in attendance for this one.

About the other surprises, here's hoping for an Android/iOS confirmation, and for Sonic 1 and 2 remasters coming to PC and consoles (maybe in a bundle?).

A month from now...

[JezMM]

I know the go-to is games from the boost trilogy for comparing multi-platform releases, but I'd instead point towards Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing and it's sequel as examples that you can have pretty much a 1:1 experience between versions.  If I recall, the PC version of ASR literally revealed that the Wii version was just running the same game on "low graphics settings", since that accidental Sonia fanart texture only showed up in the Wii version and the PC version when graphical settings were low.

A game's engine is as scalable performance-wise as the developers choose to make it -  the only thing to be concerned about here is Sonic Team's competency in that.  Modern Sonic games on PC have rarely had much in the way of optimisation, requiring a solid up-to-date rig to get good performance on.  Hopefully they're using Switch as the base point and upgrading from there though (if at all, you don't need to use every last drop of power in a PS4, Xbox One or Gaming PC to make a good looking game), but ideally they could make them scalable further back from that for low-end PC users.

(Of course this is more regarding 2017 than Mania but this is where the convo was lol).

[Psychicmoose103]

6 hours ago, Soldier: 76 said:

...Wait, why are we talking about P17 on the Mania topic?

This ain't right. Let's get back on track.

Do you think we'll see anything else from Mania at SXSW?

I think we will see...

The release date

New zone or act

MAYBE a zone count

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I hope we get at least a hint of story before the game comes out. That's one thing I'm very curious about and that we don't really know anything about! It could be just what I need to get even more excited.

[Badnik Mechanic]

13 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

No, I mean GAME actually did do a physical release for Sonic 4 that was just that. I still see them instore today. 

Pretty sure they were GAME exclusive though, yeah. 

They did, I can +1 this. Game had a really odd partnership with Sega back when S4 came out, they had a bunch of boxed copies of Sonic 4 and a few other Sega download titles.

What was supposed to happen is you took the box to the counter and they gave you the code. 

What some cheeky people did was get the code and took the box!

And I wish I'd thought of doing that!

[Kintor]

3 hours ago, JezMM said:

A game's engine is as scalable performance-wise as the developers choose to make it -  the only thing to be concerned about here is Sonic Team's competency in that.  Modern Sonic games on PC have rarely had much in the way of optimisation, requiring a solid up-to-date rig to get good performance on.  Hopefully they're using Switch as the base point and upgrading from there though (if at all, you don't need to use every last drop of power in a PS4, Xbox One or Gaming PC to make a good looking game), but ideally they could make them scalable further back from that for low-end PC users.

(Of course this is more regarding 2017 than Mania but this is where the convo was lol).

It's a common refrain for Nintendo fans to blame third-party developers when they release a downgraded game on Nintendo platforms. However, the fact remains that Nintendo's chronically weak hardware designs have made matters incredibly difficult for third-party developers, when things would be so much easier if Nintendo tried to keep parity with the competition. That for every game which can be scaled down there are a dozen others which will never work on the Switch. Buying a third-party game on a Nintendo platform over other choices is always going to be a risk, more then likely you'll end up stuck with the worse version of the game.

Personally, I hate the thought of Project Sonic 2017 or any other future Sonic game being throttled-down just to accommodate the limitations of Nintendo's hardware. Since the beginning Sonic games have always been about making use of cutting edge technology and pushing the boundaries of what is possible in an AAA platforming game. It's foolish to use the Switch as a 'base point', when even a mid-level PC being made today already greatly exceeds the Switch's power. Thus, the correct target for future Sonic games is to use the PS4 and the Xbox One as the target baseline; allowing those gamers with access to a PS4 Pro, Xbox Scorpio or high-end gaming PC to properly scale-up the Sonic game's performance if they so choose.

Forget the likes of Crysis, Sonic the Hedgehog should be the first name in high-end gaming benchmark tests. I expect no less of Sonic Mania as well; it might be a downloadable 2D but it should still find ways to push available hardware to its absolute limits.

[Wraith]

The truth is Sonic games haven't actually been on the cutting edge of anything technically since Unleashed. That was almost 10 years ago. 

I honestly don't expect much from 2017 in that department so I think the PS4 to switch conversion will be less...impossible than it was during the Wii/PS3 days.

[Diogenes]

No one denies that Nintendo's hardware has been weaker than their competitors' and that that causes problems for multiplatform games. But there's still a choice there. It's only "necessary" to make two separate games if they care more about hardware wankery than making a good product.

Also I think it's easy to forget, there was also a PS2 version of Unleashed. That was the lower bound they were working with, and likely responsible for the worst of the compromises.

[JezMM]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

It's a common refrain for Nintendo fans to blame third-party developers when they release a downgraded game on Nintendo platforms. However, the fact remains that Nintendo's chronically weak hardware designs have made matters incredibly difficult for third-party developers, when things would be so much easier if Nintendo tried to keep parity with the competition. That for every game which can be scaled down there are a dozen others which will never work on the Switch. Buying a third-party game on a Nintendo platform over other choices is always going to be a risk, more then likely you'll end up stuck with the worse version of the game.

 

Personally, I hate the thought of Project Sonic 2017 or any other future Sonic game being throttled-down just to accommodate the limitations of Nintendo's hardware. Since the beginning Sonic games have always been about making use of cutting edge technology and pushing the boundaries of what is possible in an AAA platforming game. It's foolish to use the Switch as a 'base point', when even a mid-level PC being made today already greatly exceeds the Switch's power. Thus, the correct target for future Sonic games is to use the PS4 and the Xbox One as the target baseline; allowing those gamers with access to a PS4 Pro, Xbox Scorpio or high-end gaming PC to properly scale-up the Sonic game's performance if they so choose.

 

Forget the likes of Crysis, Sonic the Hedgehog should be the first name in high-end gaming benchmark tests. I expect no less of Sonic Mania as well; it might be a downloadable 2D but it should still find ways to push available hardware to its absolute limits.

Sonic really isn't the kind of game that should really need vast amounts of horsepower for anything other than optimising the loading and presentation of large-scale environments.  As long as they can get that working equally on all platforms, anything on top of that would just be visual flair really, and that should be designed to be reasonably scalable for PC users anyway.

As long as time, budget and competence allows, I am all for SEGA putting each Sonic release on as many platforms as possible so a larger audience can enjoy them.

Making a game push hardware to the limits doesn't automatically mean it will be good if doing so just clutters up the experience.  Just make the game as complex as you feel it needs to be, and if that can run looking okay on Switch, then you can add extra pretties on the other consoles - again, only if they're necessary and actually enhance the experience.  Rare had a habit on the N64 of pushing that hardware to it's limits, every 3D collectathon platformer they made had bigger and more complicated level design than the last, and each one was more unfocused and less fun than the last as a result.

Besides it's just kinda fanwanky to only consider the PS4 and Xbox One here.  If we were to say "why not make a game that pushes the Switch to it's limits?" one would say "but the PS4 and Xbox One is better, so what's the point, it won't be impressive."   In which case you could easily retort "well forget PS4 and Xbox One then, the next Sonic is only going to work on high-end $1000+ gaming PCs so we can TRULY push gaming to its limits!"

 

 

I can't help but wonder though how on earth Sonic Mania, a title designed to intentionally look like a Saturn game, could arbitrarily add features that push a PS4 or Xbox One to it's limits lol.

[FReaK]

anyone else here curious to see 1 eggman boss fight? thats one thing i would like to see before release. they could even show ghz in all it's glory, wouldnt really mind that. but not more. i dont even want to see another zone at this point close to release.

[Chris Knopps]

4 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I hope we get at least a hint of story before the game comes out. That's one thing I'm very curious about and that we don't really know anything about! It could be just what I need to get even more excited.

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

(Edit)

Highly doubt we're getting Before/After The Sequel efforts revolving story.

[Psychicmoose103]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

(Edit)

Highly doubt we're getting Before/After The Sequel efforts revolving story.

Plot was comfirmed like 3&K. With a plot that's good but not super in depth, with transitions between zones and such. 

[FriendBot]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Story...? Mania...?

Wasn't it already confirmed the story would be minimal and/or behind the scenes basically like most 2D titles in the franchise? It's there but it's not likely worth talking much about since the plot is right there. Run through stages, stop Eggman from collecting certain things, visit old and new places to do so, the end. That's the plot.

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Soni said:

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

I don't know, I think it's just the topic of how you progress through stages that's S3&K relevant, not the plot of the game.

[Psychicmoose103]

Also guys, I have noticied something. Sonic starts over what looks to be a sewer kind of hatch in Studiopolis zone. Could this be linked to the transition?

[TheOcelot]

 

1 hour ago, FReaK said:

anyone else here curious to see 1 eggman boss fight? thats one thing i would like to see before release. they could even show ghz in all it's glory, wouldnt really mind that. but not more. i dont even want to see another zone at this point close to release.

Would be interesting to see Green Hill's Eggman boss which we know is a "walking contraption". Although I'd prefer just a glimp of an Eggman boss. I'd rather not have a boss sequence totally spoiled.

 

39 minutes ago, Soni said:

Well considering how the story presented in 3&K added into the greatness to that game, it might be minimal but how present it can make the difference. And I'm sure the Mania team can capture the same magic.

This.

3&K proves that a simple story done right with a few cutscenes and level transition tells a perfectly good story. There's every chance Mania could tell a story just as compelling and the better visuals thanks to the 32-bit sprites can only help it stand out.

[Chris Knopps]

42 minutes ago, EllieBot said:

3&K proves that a simple story done right with a few cutscenes and level transition tells a perfectly good story. There's every chance Mania could tell a story just as compelling and the better visuals thanks to the 32-bit sprites can only help it stand out.

I think that's setting your expectations too high in a territory that's doubtable to be all that big a focus.

Level transitions, sure. A plot on par with S3&K even, doubtable.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Level transitions, sure. A plot on par with S3&K even, doubtable.

So exactly what do you know that we all don't which means you're so adamant this won't be the case?