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Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic


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1 hour ago, Sonicfan7 said:

The last thing Sonic Mania wants to do is remind you of Sonic 4. In fact, I'd say it's entire purpose of existence is to make you forget it.

I still stick with Sonic 4 being the equivalent of Sonic 06 canon wise. It was GOING to be, and now it's not.

I'd be fine with Mania being the new canon continuity.

(Edit)

...What if Bon Jovi did music for a stage or the boss of the game...?

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6 hours ago, Sonicfan7 said:

The last thing Sonic Mania wants to do is remind you of Sonic 4. In fact, I'd say it's entire purpose of existence is to make you forget it.

I like Sonic 4 and have no issue with it's existence and was purely posting on a personal opinion basis and enjoyed the story episode 2 attempted up until it was left hanging.  That's why I said "I know I know".  All I'm saying is a small, personal hope of mine is that it doesn't clash with Sonic 4, nothing less nothing more.  But not the end of the world if it does.

7 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Y'know a boss that does take good advantage of Sonic's speed and physics?

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Casino Night's boss got way easier and way more fun once you started ignoring the flippers in favor of spindashing up the walls, then leaping off to slam Eggman from above.

Though at the same time, it kind of exposes a major problem of trying to work his speed into boss fights; giving Sonic enough space to zip around in easily leads to the boss (and his attacks) being offscreen, making it harder for you to know where to aim and what to dodge.

I think Casino Night had this in mind though - Eggman moves VERY predictably, the only time he breaks stride in his pattern is when the player triggers it by passing underneath, which the player must then consider in their head regarding when they choose to jump.

It's actually... kinda advanced really in the sense that you'd think this would be the 2nd boss in the series to set itself in a half pipe and rely on physics play heavily, where the 1st one just followed a simple pattern without any flair.  Still, exactly why it's a good, challenging boss I guess.

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17 hours ago, molul said:

On classic Sonics I had fun every second. On 3d sometimes I just hope I reach the next section because I'm getting bored. Even in Generations. Also, the classics controls were better imo.

Yes, but on 2D Sonic the different acts are virtually the same, with just different enemies and more pitfalls on the harder acts. The graphics are not really any good compared to 3D. I don't understand how you can find 3D boring and 2D not. With 3D, its more realistic and the storylines are more complex and interesting than 2D.

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1 hour ago, Sonic+Shadow+Silver=OP said:

Yes, but on 2D Sonic the different acts are virtually the same, with just different enemies and more pitfalls on the harder acts. The graphics are not really any good compared to 3D. I don't understand how you can find 3D boring and 2D not. With 3D, its more realistic and the storylines are more complex and interesting than 2D.

In 3&K, acts have different art, and music tracks to make them different, which makes them different.

For realisticness, I actually enjoy the classic games more. Even if they are more cartoony, it's a game about a talking blue hedgehog fighting an evil fat egg scientist. 

Not trying to start a modern vs classic war, just stating Why I'm more of a classic guy. As for the boring part, Iactually can't explain that, I just get kinda bored in some parts Of modern sonic games.

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2 hours ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

In 3&K, acts have different art, and music tracks to make them different, which makes them different.

For realisticness, I actually enjoy the classic games more. Even if they are more cartoony, it's a game about a talking blue hedgehog fighting an evil fat egg scientist. 

Not trying to start a modern vs classic war, just stating Why I'm more of a classic guy. As for the boring part, Iactually can't explain that, I just get kinda bored in some parts Of modern sonic games.

THANK you for pointing this out. It's a fantastic argument for people who think Sonic is purely fantasy/toon based. When you look back on even the earliest titles, there was always more than plenty of realism put into every game. You actually feel like YOU can go where SONIC goes and that's what makes me so turned off from experiments like Lost World and why I appreciate Sonic BOOM and Project 2017 in comparison.

When you strip as much realism as possible out of the environments Sonic is in, you don't even have a real Sonic game anymore.

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4 hours ago, Sonic+Shadow+Silver=OP said:

Yes, but on 2D Sonic the different acts are virtually the same, with just different enemies and more pitfalls on the harder acts.

That's not any less true of the 3D games. Well, the 3D games tend to have less enemy variety, I think.

4 hours ago, Sonic+Shadow+Silver=OP said:

The graphics are not really any good compared to 3D.

Mania looks great, though. It's colorful, stylish, and well animated. And the Genesis Sonics, while not on the same level of detail, still stand as good looking games. I get the sense that you're the kind of person who just rejects 2D graphics (or maybe just pixel art) outright, and that's...well, I struggle to label it as anything other than "wrong".

4 hours ago, Sonic+Shadow+Silver=OP said:

I don't understand how you can find 3D boring and 2D not. With 3D, its more realistic and the storylines are more complex and interesting than 2D.

I don't care about realism, most of the stories of 3D Sonic games are trash, and I care about gameplay first and foremost and that's something that the Genesis Sonics and (by all appearances) Mania excel at compared to the rampant incompetency seen in the 3D games.

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I think the thing that's consistent across Sonic games is detail. Not really realism. There's nothing really realistic about the worlds of Sonic Colors or Sonic CD, but they don't really get picked out like Lost World does. The worlds in Sonic games are fleshed out in a way a place in the real world would be no matter how actually weird it gets conceptually. Or, at least, they're fleshed out enough to grab the player. 

I'm kind of tired of the realism vs cartoon debate, because it goes nowhere, for one thing, and also because there was a time when I didn't notice a difference and it all looked distinctly Sonic to me. I'm kinda starting to lean toward that mindset again and not care so much as long is its not ugly. Just give me a detailed fantasy world and it'll probably feel like Sonic. It doesn't matter how far it leans on the real world for inspiration, but Sonic Team taking a look around them can't hurt.

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2 minutes ago, Josh said:

I think the thing that's consistent across Sonic games is detail. Not really realism. There's nothing really realistic about the worlds of Sonic Colors or Sonic CD, but they don't really get picked out like Lost World does. The worlds in Sonic games are fleshed out in a way a place in the real world would be no matter how actually weird it gets conceptually. Or, at least, they're fleshed out enough to grab the player. 

I'm kind of tired of the realism vs cartoon debate, because it goes nowhere, for one thing, and also because there was a time when I didn't notice a difference and it all looked distinctly Sonic to me. I'm kinda starting to lean toward that mindset again and not care so much as long is its not ugly. Just give me a detailed fantasy world and it'll probably feel like Sonic. It doesn't matter how far it leans on the real world for inspiration, but Sonic Team taking a look around them can't hurt.

I'd actually love for the team to go on another tour of the world again for inspiration for a new game. With the staff huddled up over in Japan under SEGA's lock and key there's really not much inspiration they can get. With any luck, now that Iizuka is in the West, (he... IS still over here, right?) some better creativity will return. I think the majority of the ST staff could use a breather and just go a few places again, look what it did for the Adventure titles and Unleashed, with Unleashed just being SO good.

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27 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'd actually love for the team to go on another tour of the world again for inspiration for a new game. With the staff huddled up over in Japan under SEGA's lock and key there's really not much inspiration they can get. With any luck, now that Iizuka is in the West, (he... IS still over here, right?) some better creativity will return. I think the majority of the ST staff could use a breather and just go a few places again, look what it did for the Adventure titles and Unleashed, with Unleashed just being SO good.

The city we see in the 2017 trailer is based off a real city, so you might be in luck.

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Nick from Polygon has been tweeting a few things:

 

It's going to be a lot more fun using the Bubble shield in Mania.

 

Now this is attention to detail!

 

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Also, about the story, I find the story of 2-3&K better than most of the 3D games. Sonic and tails dashing up the collapsing sky sanctuary and just barely boarding the deathegg is so badass.

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12 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Did that BUBBLE shield DEFLECT a FIREBALL?

This is reaching DBZ levels of insanity.

It's always done that though.

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1 minute ago, Pawn said:

It's always done that though.

Huh... I don't recall. I remember losing it when I got attacked...

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43 minutes ago, Psychicmoose103 said:

Also, about the story, I find the story of 2-3&K better than most of the 3D games. Sonic and tails dashing up the collapsing sky sanctuary and just barely boarding the deathegg is so badass.

The stories from the Classic Era hold up better mainly because they were simple. I don't think it's impossible to tell a complex story through a 2-D sidescroller, it's just difficult to do so. Since the main audience for Mania are people who care about the nuances of physics more than storytelling atmosphere, I doubt the game will have anything beyond 'go stop Eggman'.

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I think a better way to describe the environments seen in most Sonic games would be organic. It's not so much whether the landscapes you run through are more realistic or cartoonish since Sonic levels are never truly either, and when they go too far in one direction we either get Soleanna, which is as bland and lifeless as you can get, or Desert Ruins Act 2, which is just a mess of floating sweets and nonsense. This is why so many people appreciate Sonic Unleashed the way the do: it managed to strike the delicate balance between the high detailed environments people always loved about Sonic games with the sloped, hilly landscapes people expect out of their level design. It makes the bizarre environments almost feel like real places despite their layout. I always think of Aquatic Ruin Zone as an example of this.

12 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Huh... I don't recall. I remember losing it when I got attacked...

Yep. The elemental shields can reflect small projectiles. You can go into Angel Island Act 1, get a shield and stand next to one of those flower badniks until they fire off one of their spike balls and see for yourself. Taxman even implemented it in the Sonic 1 and 2 remasters.

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2 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

Yep. The elemental shields can reflect small projectiles. You can go into Angel Island Act 1, get a shield and stand next to one of those flower badniks until they fire off one of their spike balls and see for yourself. Taxman even implemented it in the Sonic 1 and 2 remasters.

Doesn't only the bubble shield deflect projectiles?

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3 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

This is why so many people appreciate Sonic Unleashed the way the do: it managed to strike the delicate balance between the high detailed environments people always loved about Sonic games with the sloped, hilly landscapes people expect out of their level design.

I feel like they completely failed at the latter, though. :/

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Just now, Maxtiis said:

No, they all do.

It's weird how I never noticed that. I guess I just didn't get hit often enough during the few times I played S3&K.

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2 minutes ago, Mauricius said:

It's weird how I never noticed that. I guess I just didn't get hit often enough during the few times I played S3&K.

I guess we all learned something today.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I feel like they completely failed at the latter, though. :/

I meant more aesthetically. They don't behave like we would expect them to of course, just due to the way the game plays, but I appreciate they're there regardless. Without them, I think the environments would be much more sterile.

 

2 minutes ago, Mauricius said:

It's weird how I never noticed that. I guess I just didn't get hit often enough during the few times I played S3&K.

When you play the game as long as I have you pick up on a lot of the little details. Like the insta-shield giving you a few frames of invincibility that let's you jump through some obstacles without damage.

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4 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

I meant more aesthetically. They don't behave like we would expect them to of course, just due to the way the game plays, but I appreciate they're there regardless. Without them, I think the environments would be much more sterile.

I'm including aesthetics, though; Unleashed doesn't even come close to matching the kind of curvy-hilly terrain I expect out of Sonic.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I'm including aesthetics, though; Unleashed doesn't even come close to matching the kind of curvy-hilly terrain I expect out of Sonic.

Huh? Isn't topgraphy different to aesthetics? Unleashed has the perfect 'look' to a modern Sonic game imo. Topographically you're absolutely right though. Unleashed is largely flat. I actually think the best level in terms of topography is actually Windmill Isle Act 1 in the HD version (by that I mean the tutorial level), because it has this nice organic hilly area. 

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7 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

When you play the game as long as I have you pick up on a lot of the little details. Like the insta-shield giving you a few frames of invincibility that let's you jump through some obstacles without damage.

Of course. I did know about the insta-shield though. I used it pretty much all the time so it's a pity it's not in Mania, but it's useful only in some specific cases anyway.

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