Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[KHCast]

5 hours ago, Phos said:

"Oh look we're doing this and this and this again, because people didn't hate it too much last time we tried it." - More or less what this trailer said to me.  

I don't see any real sign of them fixing anything.  Tonally, it kind of just seems like they drew angry eyebrows onto the Generations teaser, and it only took them one game to fall back on sticking classic sonic in there again.  I can also see they haven't fixed some of the oddities about their current design either.  Extreme side mouth, bioluminescent irises, floppy quills.  

The quills are a problem? And his eyes are a problem? I thought they looked perfectly fine.:/

 

Also idk, considering this is the longest development period in a long time they've had for a Sonic game, assuming nothing will be addressed or fixed based from the cgi trailer seems a bit questionable. We aren't even aware how Classic will play a role, this resistance could include multiple playable characters outside the two Sonic's, so if that's the case, Classic will greatly feel like less of a clutch. Heck Classic could be playing in 3D this time around.

[Scar]

They really don't need to "fix" it. sonic just looks better with a side mouth so that's what they give him.

It looks good when he isn't talking, but when he is, It's side mouth ad absurdum.  It looks so weird when he's talking and his mouth is nowhere near the middle of his muzzle.   

This is a largely irrelevant issue first of all. Secondly, unleashed (which started this design method) has arguably the best character animation outside of Boom. Boom does the front mouth, but I don't like the way it looks from profile or 3/4 view.

The entire issue is subjective as it stands, but I thought we were past debating modern sonics design....

Edit:

Also, you both can and can't use the cgi teaser as an indicator of gameplay. It might indicate a return of boost gameplay from generations or it might not. I mean classic sonic appears to use the boost in the trailer....does that mean he has the boost? Who knows...it's all conjecture.

For all we know classic sonic and modern sonic could both be in 3D just in past, present and future versions of stages a la CD.

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[Milo]

What I'd like to know is if the Hedgehog Engine has been massively retooled or replaced for this game. While its probably more that with this generation of consoles, it will be likely be able to run at its full potential (presumably, all graphical features that were in Unleashed enabled and running at 60fps) without major issues, it's still rather archaic in terms of features and the way its global illumination has been implemented when you compare it to other engines out there. A Sonic game that can be graphically compared to the R&C remake (but also running at 60fps) would be the ideal look, presentation-wise.

[Scar]

What I'd like to know is if the Hedgehog Engine has been massively retooled or replaced for this game. While its probably more that with this generation of consoles, it will be likely be able to run at its full potential (presumably, all graphical features that were in Unleashed enabled and running at 60fps) without major issues, it's still rather archaic in terms of features and the way its global illumination has been implemented when you compare it to other engines out there. A Sonic game that can be graphically compared to the R&C remake (but also running at 60fps) would be the ideal look, presentation-wise.

From what I understand, it was a dated and limited engine to begin with. Or it is at the very least outperformed but modern licenced graphics engines. Wouldn't mind seeing a Hedgehog Engine II building on and refining the original.....but the brains behind the engine (Yoshihisa Hashimoto I believe) left to Square Enix and left there to work on another engine.

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[JezMM]

1 hour ago, nikfan said:

The CG trailers don't always show the gameplay exactly as it is in the game itself, for example:

1. In the Sonic 06 intro cutscene, we see Sonic performing a little boost while fighting the robots, even though at that time that concept was only in Sonic Rush.

2. The Sonic Unleashed intro cutscene had Sonic trick around a robot, which could suggest that a quit-time event silar to Werehog's could've been there for normal Sonic, althoughthat could've been shown for cinematic effect, I don't think people should readmuch into it just yet.But, its fun to theorize.

Those are cut-scenes from finished products, not trailers.  The Generations reveal trailer where Sonic is running through the whited out Green Hill Zone distinctly showed him using a variety of moves from the boost games, and it turned out to be a boost game.  It makes a lot more sense to compare two reveal trailers of a similar nature than a reveal trailer to a flashy cinematic intro movie intended for entertainment in itself over announcement/information.

[nikfan]

I don't know about Sonic Unleashed, but the Sonic 06 comparison I made actually makes sense, since they showed the cinematic as a trailer.

[JezMM]

56 minutes ago, nikfan said:

I don't know about Sonic Unleashed, but the Sonic 06 comparison I made actually makes sense, since they showed the cinematic as a trailer.

Yeah but the cinematic was still created for the final game for the sake of presenting story and being entertaining, it wasn't created FOR the trailer, and the trailer itself featured gameplay footage afterwards.  It's safe to bet the FMV footage for this trailer was created FOR the trailer seeing as how very constructed it is around the cool movie trailer text etc.  I very much doubt the FMV footage will appear in-game other than as the demo screen (like Generations did) or throwing it in at a place where it feasibly sort of fits into the story for the heck of it (like Secret Rings did).

 

I.e It's reasonable to assume this FMV is intended to give us some idea of what the game may be like to play.

[Ajavalo]

BTW, of all the varying complaints this game may and will get throughout the advertising period (a typical Sonic thing), there's at least one thing that's guaranteed to not come up at all:

"Why it won't come for X console?" and exclusivity stuff, because it'll be out for everything!

[nikfan]

37 minutes ago, Ajavalo said:

BTW, of all the varying complaints this game may and will get throughout the advertising period (a typical Sonic thing), there's at least one thing that's guaranteed to not come up at all:

"Why it won't come for X console?" and exclusivity stuff, because it'll be out for everything!

Um, excuse me sir, why doesn't this game come out on the 3DS? *cough cough* 
That is a good point tho, Sonic Team trying their hardest to not get criticism, God Bless.

[Scar]

I don't know about Sonic Unleashed, but the Sonic 06 comparison I made actually makes sense, since they showed the cinematic as a trailer.

Yeah but the cinematic was still created for the final game for the sake of presenting story and being entertaining, it wasn't created FOR the trailer, and the trailer itself featured gameplay footage afterwards.  It's safe to bet the FMV footage for this trailer was created FOR the trailer seeing as how very constructed it is around the cool movie trailer text etc.  I very much doubt the FMV footage will appear in-game other than as the demo screen (like Generations did) or throwing it in at a place where it feasibly sort of fits into the story for the heck of it (like Secret Rings did).

 

I.e It's reasonable to assume this FMV is intended to give us some idea of what the game may be like to play.

Maybe.....

So classic sonic has boost?

Not sure tbh. It is very likely boost formula will be used, however there is a possibility it has been modified, updated or changed entirely (the latter if the things Endri has said are true).

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[Ajavalo]

38 minutes ago, nikfan said:

Um, excuse me sir, why doesn't this game come out on the 3DS? *cough cough* 
That is a good point tho, Sonic Team trying their hardest to not get criticism, God Bless.

Well, the 3DS really isn't comparable to the latest HD home consoles. Now that you mention that, it seems this game will be the first one in a long while without a handheld/Dimps version!

[ChikoLad]

1 hour ago, Ajavalo said:

BTW, of all the varying complaints this game may and will get throughout the advertising period (a typical Sonic thing), there's at least one thing that's guaranteed to not come up at all:

"Why it won't come for X console?" and exclusivity stuff, because it'll be out for everything!

"Why isn't it coming to Mac and Linux!?"

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Ajavalo said:

BTW, of all the varying complaints this game may and will get throughout the advertising period (a typical Sonic thing), there's at least one thing that's guaranteed to not come up at all:

"Why it won't come for X console?" and exclusivity stuff, because it'll be out for everything!

Naw,  instead that'll be Sonic Mania's job until the eventual port to a Nintendo console and/or handheld. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

11 hours ago, Komaru Naegi said:

Sonic games have always reused assets though, every game developer does this

Sonic CD reuses Sonic 1's base sprite, Sonic Generations model rips from Colors like the buzzbombers and the motobugs

Shadow the hedgehog models rips all character models from Sonic Heroes with the exception of the few human characters whose models are completely new

The trailer for Sonic 2017 looked pre-rendered anyways, as long as the game is good I don't mind if they reuse models or repurpose stuff from the older 3D games as long as it's not like Final Fantasy XIV were they rip models from XI, XII and XIII and don't even bother to update the textures for half the enemies.

there's a difference between reusing the main character's assets, since they're the same, and having the enemies just being reused enemies with a different head.

[JaidynReiman]

21 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Okay, not much time right now, but calling it:

This will not be Sonic Generations 2. This is a red herring. Classic Sonic isn't a co-star or main character, but an "assist" or "partner" character, among other favorite Sonic characters that you can rescue or recruit over the course of the adventure to join your "resistance" against Dr. Eggman, and Classic Sonic in particular only features in the trailer for nostalgia reasons and in the story because in his conquest, Eggman royally mangled space-time, so he's along for the ride to help undo this disaster. Other characters like Silver and Blaze can also feature because of said space-time shenanigans. Sonic will be the only directly playable character, but other characters will always be able to tag along with Sonic for extra moves, similar to certain missions in Sonic Generations, such as Knuckles' medal hunting or Tails' flight assist abilities and Rouge's lewd exhibitionism to Egg Pawns. 

Just my theory. As for the actual gameplay, bear in mind that in addition to the slide and boost, Modern Sonic was also spin-dashing and making other "classic" Sonic noises. If Sonic Generation's teaser trailer is any indication, the sound effects and visible moves could indicate how the game plays. Could be the boost with a spin-dash added. Could be a return to the Adventure formula. Maybe Lost World again.

Could be something entirely new (like Iizuka said).

Who knows. Either way, Iizuka stated that this would be a "new experience."

Have fun speculating, y'all.

This is my speculation as well. I DO NOT think its Generations 2 or even anywhere close. I think it might be going on the idea of Sonic recruiting characters, and Classic Sonic is part of that.

 

Holy shit over 15 pages since I was last in here. Damn.

[Diogenes]

If the game's about recruiting characters, and classic Sonic is just a recruit...why introduce the idea with classic Sonic (and only classic Sonic), of all possible characters? Wouldn't it have made infinitely more sense to have a bunch of characters show up and bust some debris, something like Team Sonic assembling in Heroes' opening?

e: Personally I think the emphasis isn't on "join", but on "resistance". That is, fighting back against Eggman's apparently successful takeover.

[expansivelovestories]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If the game's about recruiting characters, and classic Sonic is just a recruit...why introduce the idea with classic Sonic (and only classic Sonic), of all possible characters? Wouldn't it have made infinitely more sense to have a bunch of characters show up and bust some debris, something like Team Sonic assembling in Heroes' opening?

Yes..!  both ideas seem to make sense, either that classic Sonic is shown instead of others to not give away too much about the game, or that as you are saying it will have a significant part of the game playing in a more classic format!

This trailer does have very similar perspectives and set pieces to the much loved Sonic CD intro animated sequence..!  Maybe the classic stages will have a time travelling feature, but they are the equivalent to the "present" (so still a type of past), past, and maybe even an earlier past, which by interacting with various aspects of those, would clear the way for modern Sonic to access new places in the future.

also the timing of this game as being late 2017 is encouraging! 

Release date(s)

JP December 23, 1998

NA September 9, 1999

EU October 14, 1999

AUS December 3, 1999

[ChikoLad]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If the game's about recruiting characters, and classic Sonic is just a recruit...why introduce the idea with classic Sonic (and only classic Sonic), of all possible characters? Wouldn't it have made infinitely more sense to have a bunch of characters show up and bust some debris, something like Team Sonic assembling in Heroes' opening?

e: Personally I think the emphasis isn't on "join", but on "resistance". That is, fighting back against Eggman's apparently successful takeover.

Yeah, this is why I can't get behind the "assist" character idea. They wouldn't have shown Classic Sonic, of all characters, if they wanted to convey that. I would imagine it would have just been Tails or Knuckles, or even a smaller character like a Wisp.

Hell, unless Classic Sonic is the only other playable character, I think only showing him in this trailer was a really bad idea no matter what the game is supposed to be, because it confuses people as to what the game is. If they had shown, for example, more versions of Sonic showing up too, like Boom Sonic, that might have caused less disappointment about this being "Generations 2", and more that this was going to give you multiple versions of Sonic with varying abilities.  Or even if they had shown Tails or Knuckles, then people would have had no complaints regarding the characters right now, and then they could have revealed Classic Sonic closer to the game's release, or kept him as a secret unlockable.

But as it stands, only showing Classic Sonic makes it very unclear as to what the game is supposed to be, especially since he appears to be able to use the Boost now. Unless he really is just the second playable character in this game, then it makes no sense for them to reveal him like they did.

[Scar]

28 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If the game's about recruiting characters, and classic Sonic is just a recruit...why introduce the idea with classic Sonic (and only classic Sonic), of all possible characters? Wouldn't it have made infinitely more sense to have a bunch of characters show up and bust some debris, something like Team Sonic assembling in Heroes' opening?

e: Personally I think the emphasis isn't on "join", but on "resistance". That is, fighting back against Eggman's apparently successful takeover.

Whatever the actual case may be, it is likely they used classic sonic over other characters, because of the stigma associated with them. Sonic fanbase aside, nobody likes the supporting cast - to the extent to which they're not even willing to entertain the possibility of them being written well (which is a shame).

So yeah, if the story is about recruiting or fighting a resistance, other characters certainly could be involved, but aren't taking centre stage, because well.....SEGA is scared of the reception.

Personally, the most exciting prospect for this concept is that there is action to both fight the takeover and also prevent it. Modern sonic and co. fighting in the present, and classic sonic and co. in the past trying to prevent it? I dunno how that would work, but it certainly would be pretty cool if they pulled it off.

(of course my idea would involve 3D gameplay for both classic and modern sonic, but hah...that ain't happening)

[Green Eyes]

7 hours ago, StaticMania said:

But ever since Sonic Unleashed all these CGI scenes have only ever had Sonic (the Hedgehog) do how he does in the game-play. So it only makes sense to draw the obvious parallels while we can. Also because other than the setup, nothing else can be tooken from the trailer besides that...and a few reference poses.

The Sonic Unleashed opening shows Sonic interacting with the world in a much more complicated way than he does in the game, well just about any CG most likely including this one.

That said, it was mainly BlenderMania's "Both Sonic's accelerate with a blue trail therefore both of them boost." I find a bit a tenuous.

 

[Indigo Rush]

Well assuming the 'assist' theory is correct, they chose Classic Sonic simply for nostalgia and potentially shock value. They have got to know that it's too soon for Generations 2, so I'm sticking to the bait-and-switch theory until we find out more.

If it is Generations 2 (even though Iizuka himself said it wouldn't be a sequel, why else would he feel the need to say that before the trailer if he didn't anticipate some confusion?) then jeez I'll be a little disappointed, especially if they don't massively improve the physics for BOTH Classic and Modern Sonics.

[AngelSlayerN64]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

If the game's about recruiting characters, and classic Sonic is just a recruit...why introduce the idea with classic Sonic (and only classic Sonic), of all possible characters? Wouldn't it have made infinitely more sense to have a bunch of characters show up and bust some debris, something like Team Sonic assembling in Heroes' opening?

It's a teaser. That's why. You can't expect them to reveal all the characters at once. That would ruin the suspense and surprise. It's all about building up the hype. When we get more information in the future, we might get more characters along the way. It's only a matter of time...

[Marcello]

I doubt it's about recruiting characters or a rebel army type thing. "Join the Resistance" is probably just a tagline since Eggman has won and taken over the world. I can't really imagine anyone but Sonic and Classic Sonic being playable.

Anyway, I hope it doesn't take too long for some gameplay and more info. I want my past assumptions to be proven wrong.

[ChikoLad]

6 minutes ago, SilverStarN64 said:

It's a teaser. That's why. You can't expect them to reveal all the characters at once. That would ruin the suspense and surprise. It's all about building up the hype. When we get more information in the future, we might get more characters along the way. It's only a matter of time...

Yes, but we're saying that, if there truly is more characters, they should have showed like, Tails or Knuckles, instead of Classic Sonic.

Unless Classic Sonic specifically really is to be one of the game's main features, like in Generations, then showing him now is a bad move, IMO. If he isn't as prominent as this trailer is leading us to believe, then his reveal should have been saved for later, or even kept as a secret within the game.

[Alice Twilight]

1 hour ago, The KKM said:

there's a difference between reusing the main character's assets, since they're the same, and having the enemies just being reused enemies with a different head.

Still not seeing the issue, upon further inspection the textures and the models on the death egg robots looks completely new and have been created for this next gen and not model ripped from a previous game if anything re-using character models with no touch ups is lazier than these Death Egg robots with a different head, look at how plastic Sonic looks compared to the human characters in Shadow The Hedgehog sticks out like a sore thumb.