Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[TheLaw34]

Seems pretty clear that the trailer is trying to tell us it will be going for a generally darker tone. Not to a stupid level like shadow or an R rated "SERIOUS BUISNESS!!!" movie but it will be darker than usual. They wouldn't have revealed the game in that way if it wasn't. That said you can be dark and have terrible childish jokes and cheesy dialogue (look no further than 06 and shadow). Those are things that aren't really affected by your tone.

I'm not really a "Keep your expectations low so you don't get disappointed" kind of guy I want things to live up to/blow past my expectations and if being disappointed it the price to pay for the joy of looking forward to things then it seems worth it to me. 

[StaticMania]

That's almost like saying you...are okay with being constantly disappointed. Which doesn't really matter either way when ya think about it, most Sonic fans buy the new game regardless of what their expectations are.

[Blacklightning]

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I feel keeping expectations low works out for everyone regardless of the outcome - if it's crap you have the catharsis of knowing you didn't invest much in it anyway, and if it's good it comes as a nice surprise. Or as Yahtzee puts it:

[TheLaw34]

5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

That's almost like saying you...are okay with being constantly disappointed. Which doesn't really matter either way when ya think about it, most Sonic fans buy the new game regardless of what their expectations are.

I am okay with being constantly disappointed, I don't see what the big deal is. Me being disappointed is me taking a minute to say oh darn and then moving on. I'm not going to stop getting excited because oh something as minor as disappointment. Being excited is fun and disappointment in a video game is too petty an issue to care about. I understand why you would tell other people not to though, There's always kids freaking out in the youtube comments when a game turns out bad. I think learning to deal with a little disappointment is better than not getting excited.

I only buy sonic games that I think look awesome after watching a quarter of the game.

[Straw Hat]

9 hours ago, SonicEkkusu said:

I'm honestly just setting my expectations very low. Especially since we had 6 years of "BALDY MCNOSEHAIR HAHHAHAHAHAHAH!" "That was cool! Pun entirely intended" and "No copyright law in the universe is gonna stop me!" *cringe*

Yeah, I don't wanna set myself up for disappointment like what happaned with Lost World. I heard about Lost World from a friend, and was expecting a serious story (I wasn't really caught up on the Pontaff era at the time. I got into Sonic from Shadow the Hedgehog, and I bought a fair amount of the pre-Pontaff games.)

Still, it's not like the series won't be open to change at all in the future. They've said how much they want to emphasize Sonic returning to a quality series now. And they've given us some idea that they aren't just covering their asses by working on quality games like Mania and taking their time on entries with newer titles like Project 2017 and Fire & Ice. Perhaps bringing Sonic back to his action routes from past titles over the comedic route is also an incentive for them, now. You never know...

All I'm saying is Sega are giving me a reason to be positive about this series again. So even if something like Flynn being the writer didn't end up being true, it's not the death of Sonic for me. They have some good looking stuff in store for Sonic here, which I think could open positive possibilities for Sonic's future.

[Soniman]

On 8/22/2016 at 4:47 AM, Scape said:

"Classic" Sonic better not become the new Shadow

-Has appeared in an anniversary title alongside current Sonic

-Has his own game due to popularity and demmand

-Has appeared again after everyone was convinced he'd never appear again after inital appearence.

It's to late for that bro,

[VolatileMike]

The principle of giving Sonic segregated 2D and 3D levels, as if Sonic can't carry a game on his own (with ample development time, he certainly can), bothers me. At the same time, though, I just want this to be fast, fun, and good. I've made bold predictions in terms of tone, but for gameplay I can only hope for the best. 

[Mad Convoy]

9 hours ago, TheLaw34 said:

I'm not really a "Keep your expectations low so you don't get disappointed" kind of guy I want things to live up to/blow past my expectations and if being disappointed it the price to pay for the joy of looking forward to things then it seems worth it to me. 

 

6 hours ago, StaticMania said:

That's almost like saying you...are okay with being constantly disappointed. Which doesn't really matter either way when ya think about it, most Sonic fans buy the new game regardless of what their expectations are.

No, he didn't say anything about constant disappointment. What he seems to be saying is that he doesn't want to keep his expectations low because the happiness it gives him outweighs the potential disappointment. Chances are high that he isn't just constantly disappointed because he's probably invested in stuff that have panned out for the better, and when it hasn't, gotten over his disappointment and moved on to being invested in other things.

As for whether to be optimistic or not about Sonic, if I'm to be honest, I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned of full-on cynicism. I think Stephen Colbert sums it up best.

Quote

Now will saying "yes" get you in trouble at times? Will saying "yes" lead you to doing some foolish things? Yes it will. But don't be afraid to be a fool. Remember, you cannot be both young and wise. Young people who pretend to be wise to the ways of the world are mostly just cynics. Cynicism masquerades as wisdom, but it is the farthest thing from it. Because cynics don't learn anything. Because cynicism is a self-imposed blindness, a rejection of the world because we are afraid it will hurt us or disappoint us. Cynics always say no. But saying "yes" begins things. Saying "yes" is how things grow. Saying "yes" leads to knowledge. "Yes" is for young people. So for as long as you have the strength to, say "yes."

Now, before people start tearing into the quote, no he probably doesn't advocate for recklessly accepting everything. But he is saying that people should approach things with a positive mindset as that's the mindset that leads to progress actually getting made in terms of better understanding, and the mindset that opens minds to learning. He's also saying that you shouldn't be afraid of being wrong about stuff and feeling hurt from it, because everybody does stupid stuff and most people end up fine and even learn from the experience-- but if you don't try to be positive, you won't get the opportunity to learn much of anything in the first place. In the context of Sonic, this can be applied to mean that people shouldn't be so afraid of potential disappointment that they forget to be open to what the game has to offer, nor think that being wrong about how a Sonic game turned out makes them dumb.

I mean, you don't have to buy Sonic 2017 if you've looked at the advertising materials, demo footage, etc. and decided you don't like it. Heck, its ok to be negative right now. But we only have a trailer to go by at this point which contains one level, so we've really only scratched the surface. I think its unfair for people to claim that having any sort of excitement will inevitably lead to disappointment and that suppressing excitement is the best way for everybody to go.

[StaticMania]

There's no reason to get positive yet. Sonic games usually disappoint people, and the people who don't want to just be a downer cynic or just get pumped every time would take the middle ground: cautious optimism for any time a new game shows up.

[Mad Convoy]

37 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

There's no reason to get positive yet. Sonic games usually disappoint people, and the people who don't want to just be a downer cynic or just get pumped every time would take the middle ground: cautious optimism for any time a new game shows up.

That I can get behind, but that's not what I'm generally hearing here. What I'm hearing that I should not hold any good expectations for the game at all, only a few negative ones. This is presented as a shield against disappointment, which is in turn presented as something that brings nothing but devastation and despair.

For reasons I elaborated on in my post, I don't believe in that or approve of the principle of that.

[Mark1]

The trailer didn't really confirm much as to how the game will really play that's the whole thing. So far it looks like Sonic Generations 2 in all but name and theme, which I assumed many were wanting Sonic Team to flesh out more, instead of trying another style of gameplay again. That was the impression I got following Sonic Lost World's reception on many forums. This is what confuses me about this fan base.

On the other hand, I do understand where some of the cynicism is coming from, given SEGA's past records and broken promises. Plus the trailer does give off some reminders of the darker Sonic games such as Sonic 06. Which many don't want another repeat of.... 

Do I think this game will flop? Probably not since:

1. SEGA with their new agenda of not rushing out games.

2. It'll likely flesh out (and remove some of the flaws) more on the Sonic Generations formula, which can only be a good thing since it's Sonic Team's most critically acclaimed game for some time.

However, while I would love to believe the game to get even higher scores. The team are still known for making bad design decisions in their games.

So...honestly my view with this game is that I'm cautiously optimistic, however I still have some worries, such as the setting and how much they evolve the gameplay so it feels less automated.

 

 

[Dr. Detective]

I'm not cautiously optimistic about whether or not it'll be good. I don't really doubt that it will to be perfectly honest.

I'm more worried about whether or not it'll improve on all the things I was sour on when it came to games like Colors and Generations. Things relative to story, character development, world building, and length.

My sliver of expectation concerning whether or not I'll be happy with the way at least one of these is portrayed within the game skirts around 10%.

[Mark1]

On the note of story I think it'll work similar to Sonic CD. A different type of time travel story. Different to Sonic Generations.

Would personally love for the objective of the game to go back in time to make a good future in Modern Sonic's timeline. Kind of like X-Men: Days of Future Past. 

 

[Soniman]

Using the Sonic CD gimmick and implementing it into new levels would be pretty rad honestly 

[Adamabba]

They'd have to spend an ungodly amount of time working on each level tho.

[JingleBoy]

Sonic: Days of Future Past sounds awesome haha. They could use this as an opportunity to retcon some of the inconsistencies in this franchise just like how Days of Future Past retconned The Last Stand and X-Men Origins, but I seriously doubt they'd be going that far.

[Mark1]

9 hours ago, Soniman said:

Using the Sonic CD gimmick and implementing it into new levels would be pretty rad honestly 

Considering this game seems to have been in development for some time and they emphasise it's a new experience I could see them using Sonic CD as a template for story or gameplay possibly.

I'd only be up for the time gameplay gimmick as long it is not complex to play here and doesn't ruin the flow of the story like the medals system in Sonic Unleashed. The level design in Sonic CD has also received its fair share of criticism from fans.

If they make it work it could encourage more exploration in a 3D sonic game. And that would excite me.

[Scape]

Modern and Classic Sonic should gradually change to look more and more like each other over the course of the game with no one addressing it, until they finally fuse into one being by the end

[azoo]

The idea of a "Sonic CD 2" gave me a thought.

What if modern and classic Sonic played identically (run-jump-spin, Spin Dash, homing attack, 3D stages with some 2D, etc), but you could switch between either at any time? You may say there's no reason for there to be two of them in that case, but hear me out.

If Eggman were to be time-jumping all over the place and doing world conquest in multiple time zones at once, imagine playing as one Sonic in one time and the other in another; modern Sonic runs in the present time, press Y or something, suddenly classic Sonic in the past. Same gameplay, different visuals/level layout.

Now imagine that certain places have different routes depending on the point in time (for example, a bridge in the past may be torn down in the future, or a bridge in the future may not be made yet in the past), and think of what could be done with that in situations where there's lots of damage done in one zone or the other, or like dodging obstacles or taking routes that are exclusive to one time or the other.

There's never a change or separation in gameplay, instead the dynamic level design and switching between timelines is the game's big "gimmick". Not like Sega would ever do that, but I think that'd be awesome if they did.

[Diogenes]

I don't think that really makes sense with two Sonics, though? Like, say you're modern Sonic in the present and the bridge ahead is destroyed, so you switch to classic Sonic in the past where the bridge is still intact. You cross the bridge as classic, then you switch back to modern and...then what? Modern still never had a bridge to cross.

It'd make more sense with one Sonic jumping back and forth in time, but even then I think there's still a major issue in being able to predict what's going to change between time periods. A slower paced game can get away with it, either just because the player has time to examine the environment or because the designers can put "ghost" objects to tell the player what's different, but since Sonic games focus so much on speed and fluidity it's hard to imagine anything that could be done to communicate it clearly enough in the short span of time a player has to make a decision.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I wonder if it would be one stage but you can switch between the Sonics, offering more exploration in the stages?

[Mark1]

I'm not too keen on the idea of switching between both Classic and Modern Sonic if honest. Think it would interrupt the flow of each gameplay style and make it too complicated for the user to switch between the different controls. I've seen people refer to Super Paper Mario, but do not feel it is a good comparison to make, as each character have a near identical gameplay style, making it less troublesome for the player to understand the controls. 

Lost World took me a while to get used to with its complex control set up. Generations was simple in comparison lol.

My suggestion is to keep with the Generations formula of Act 1, Act 2 etc. But to have a different ending one must explore each of the levels to change and make a better future for the world. Just like Sonic CD. It'd be a different approach to any modern game before it, increasing replayability in the process. It'd feel even more like the formula of the classic games (I'd love SEGA take this approach).

Also, I doubt Classic Sonic will have 3D gameplay. Some critics and fans would slam the game if he had any form of 3D gameplay. SEGA wants these games to be successful again .

[azoo]

4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I don't think that really makes sense with two Sonics, though? Like, say you're modern Sonic in the present and the bridge ahead is destroyed, so you switch to classic Sonic in the past where the bridge is still intact. You cross the bridge as classic, then you switch back to modern and...then what? Modern still never had a bridge to cross.

It'd make more sense with one Sonic jumping back and forth in time, but even then I think there's still a major issue in being able to predict what's going to change between time periods. A slower paced game can get away with it, either just because the player has time to examine the environment or because the designers can put "ghost" objects to tell the player what's different, but since Sonic games focus so much on speed and fluidity it's hard to imagine anything that could be done to communicate it clearly enough in the short span of time a player has to make a decision.

What I was getting at was that classic and modern are both the same "Sonic" and that the change was just cosmetic, as a way to tell when you're in past or present. There's no "move classic Sonic, then move modern Sonic, etc" involved, cuz that'd suck lol.

It's more like "modern sonic sees a burned down bridge, goes classic sonic and crosses the bridge, you either can go back to the present version of the stage or stay in the past version until there's another obstacle that requires checking out the present version". Or maybe there's just an altogether different layout for you to mess with and lead to places one goes to but the other won't, kinda like how the different times do in CD. Idk, it's a thought.

As for the second bit, i could see it working. Maybe not for a game as fast paced and constantly moving as Generations, but something at the speed and pace of an Adventure game should work pretty well with this, I imagine. 

I do see it would take a lot of work to make in a way that can mend well with Sonic level design though (kinda like them sticking to one style), which is why i have trouble seeing Sonic Team pulling it off, but oh well.

1 hour ago, Mark1 said:

I'm not too keen on the idea of switching between both Classic and Modern Sonic if honest. Think it would interrupt the flow of each gameplay style and make it too complicated for the user to switch between the different controls. I've seen people refer to Super Paper Mario, but do not feel it is a good comparison to make, as each character have a near identical gameplay style, making it less troublesome for the player to understand the controls. 

I'm not a fan of that either. Which is why I mentioned that their gameplay would be identical and the only difference is the level layout, lol. 

[VolatileMike]

Here's a question: would you prefer Classic Sonic to have his own levels, or be a skin of Modern Sonic?

[Sonic The Badass]

15 hours ago, VolatileMike said:

Here's a question: would you prefer Classic Sonic to have his own levels, or be a skin of Modern Sonic?

We got Sonic Mania. I'm fine with Classic Sonic being just a skin. I'd be fine with it even if Mania didn't exist. But I highly doubt this is the route Sonic Team is taking. It wouldn't make much sense considering how they handled Classic Sonic the last time. Showing that he'll be in the game, side by side with his modern counterpart in the teaser tells me we'll be seeing classic with his own levels.