Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[D.K.]

23 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

But man, you tell me the guy who directed Colors and Lost World is helming this game too and all I'm seeing flash by is shitty jokes, dangling plot threads, characters standing around not doing anything, a lack of mystery and theme, and potential moral considerations that are gonna piss me off.

A director and a writer are two different people.

[Nepenthe]

2 minutes ago, Depression Kong said:

A director and a writer are two different people.

The director is the person who determines what ultimately ends up in the game or not. If he didn't like the shitty writing, he would've mandated it be changed.

[Tyranno]

I imagine Kishimoto has less to do with the plot and tone/humor of the game than Pontac and Graff, who aren't confirmed to be coming back yet.

So, yanno. Apples, oranges, chickens before they're hatched, etc.

[Marcello]

The guy who directed Skyward Sword also directed Breath of the Wild, and those are completely different.

[MegasonicZX]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't know anything about frame drops cause I play it on the switch

 

I know people want Sonic games to look good, but I really would like it if the boost games would priorities frame rates. Unleashed style stages with amazing performance would be a bigger deal to me than cutting edge visuals.

Yeah, the graphics don't need to be going maximum overdrive in order to get the point across so I'd also prefer if the frame rate were a good 30fps with no drops (60 would be fantastic but not necessary).

[Nepenthe]

Again, there's a chain of command within collaborative work pipelines like games, shows, and film that ensures you can get a rough feel for how any work is going to go depending upon the people involved. In terms of single jobs, producer comes first- they get an oversight into the scope of the project and deal with budgetry concerns. They'll tell an ambitious director whether or not something is financially feasible and sign off on all of that. Director comes next- they tell the entire development team- coders, artists, writers, etc.- who all generally work somewhat parallel to one another what they want the game to be and uphold them to the standard of delivering that vision. That includes the writing team. If the writing team comes to the director with something disagreeable, the director is then responsible for telling them to change it after some constructive critique is given.

Assuming Sega as a corporate entity isn't mandating the Sonic games be some kind of way; sure, the writing is definitely Pontaff and Graff's fault in that they wrote it, but the director shares blame too. Hashimoto probably wouldn't let half of the shit that annoys me about Sonic games slide if he was still directing and could've helped it, because we already have insight into the kind of game he'd direct.

[Cakito]

1 hour ago, BubbleButt TV said:

The 3rd playstyle will be something unexpected that bridges the gap between Modern & Classic?!

omg, we all made fun of this, but what if Larry was right all along???!!!! ???

That'd be soooo bad

The thing I really like in Sonic are the characters's personalities. Having a... thing... called "buddy", that you create to play sound a terrible idea

[Chooch]

I'm really worried about this game now that I know who the director is. Colors lost its luster immediately after my initial play through of the entire thing and Lost World as an overall gaming experience is pretty much the definition of mediocre. The two games also share the same Wisp related problem that was largely avoided in Sonic Generations with the exception of Planet Wisp. Pretty funny considering that Planet Wisp is far and away the most unpleasant area in all of Generations as far as the main Acts go. It just makes Wisps returning all the more ominous and disappointing in my mind. I guess I should have known something was up with the direction of the game when I saw Wisps in our very first look at it.

Being the director of a game does influence a lot of how it works. The position is called director for a reason. You can tell a game is directed by Hideo Kojima largely because of how all the various elements come together; even if they are from completely different series or structurally different. They all have a certain feel. They have a signature; the director's signature. If you're not a fan of two or three games directed by the same person then there's a very very high possibility that you will not like other games directed by them. Maybe there would be less reason to be skeptical or worried if the games Kishimoto directed were getting progressively better, but they aren't. At best I can hope for two scenarios:

1) Kishimoto seriously stepped up his game and is mindful of Generations' successes and Lost World's failures.

2) The staff working under Kishimoto have enough influence on the game and/or Kishimoto himself that it won't have as much of Kishimoto's signature on it. This is under the pretense that they also know what the hell they're doing.

I'm not giving up but I definitely have become considerably less excited for this game. I love my modern Sonic but Mania is looking like the clear cut higher quality game if we're just going by who is involved in the development.

[Soniman]

2 hours ago, Marcello said:

The guy who directed Skyward Sword also directed Breath of the Wild, and those are completely different.

But both were still good.....and Also Nintendo. Sega's staff  not so much 

Considering I don't dislike any of the post Unleashed Sonic games and like Colors a fair bit , this news means nothing to me honestly. I'm going to judge the game by what I see in the actual GAME 

[Nepenthe]

We should also remember that Breath out of the Wild was deliberately and consciously made to be fundamentally different from Zelda games that were in line with the OoT style. Of course it was significantly different. There's no indication that Sonic Team is remotely able to engage in that kind of introspection and deconstruction of the franchise, especially since this looks like Gens 2 with a post apocalyptic backdrop.

[Wraith]

Black Knight and Sonic Lost World are completely different but the thing they have in common is that neither are remembered all that fondly. His track record just ain't great no matter how you try and cut it

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Black Knight and Sonic Lost World are completely different but the thing they have in common is that neither are remembered all that fondly. His track record just ain't great no matter how you try and cut it

Eh,  such can't be said about Black Knight's story which still gets positive memories in its honor to this day.

Not to mention that its gameplay wasn't even outright rebuked, in fact quite a few like it,  waggle aside. 

Lost World as well,  to a lesser extent regarding story and slightly stronger extent regarding gameplay. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Y'know, I was thinking, do you guys think they'll do what they did for Sonic Generations and released a special one day demo on Sonic's birthday?

[Milo]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Time on a project doesn't really affect a developer's sensibilities. If you've got a Michael Bay blockbuster that takes 5 years to develop, and another Michael Bay blockbuster that takes just two years, both are ostensibly still going to feel like Bay films. Whether it's by his own hand or Sega mandates or whatever, Kishimoto Sega-directed games have amounted to feeling like nothing more than farts in the wind.

This is important. The developer's / director's intentions and design decisions on the game they want to make typically overrules the amount of resources (time, money, tools, etc.) they have.

For comparison's sake--Taxman/Stealth/PWG's Mania was reported to start development in 2015. Should Mania release this year, that would mark two years of development. Five years ago, we got Dimps's Sonic 4: Episode II, developed in a similar timeframe and on a arguably-higher budget. Comparing the two titles, it's a no-brainer which group was actually interested in making a faithful Genesis Sonic game and which group was not.

Let's make the hypothetical case that instead of Mania, a Dimps-developed Sonic 4: Episode III was announced last year instead. Going off how Episode I (which had an entire feedback session held at SoA's HQ on things people felt Dimps got wrong) and Episode II turned out, would anyone really expect Dimps to have suddenly changed course on how their approach to classic Sonic gameplay with a third Sonic 4 episode, just because they had a few more years of development time?

We already know Wisps are confirmed to be returning for Sonic Forces, which were in the last two games he directed; we already know Forces has been spread out in game design focus (with three playstyles and having the Wisps too on top of that), and Lost World was a game notorious to attempting to juggle several ideas at the forefront. Predicting Forces would be reminiscent of the same intentions and design decisions of Kishimoto's past games (both the good and the bad) is by no means making a reaching assumption.

[Kintor]

12 minutes ago, Josh said:

Black Knight and Sonic Lost World are completely different but the thing they have in common is that neither are remembered all that fondly. His track record just ain't great no matter how you try and cut it

It's interesting that you single out Sonic and the Black Knight as a negative point when the qualities of Sonic and the Black Knight are actually quite useful for Sonic Forces. The difference between Sonic and the Black Knight VS Lost World are like night and day. Lost Word is an ill-conceived Mario clone but Sonic and the Black Knight is a much darker game.

Concepts of Arthurian mythology, a hero playing a villain to the eyes of the public, a villain masquerading as a heroic king, coping with loss, dealing with the idea that era's come to an end. When you get right down to it Sonic and the Black Knight was an impressive game from a thematic perspective, taking the grim medieval setting and successfully running with it. Thus, I think that a director who has experiencing making that darker kind of Sonic game is actually well suited to be working on Sonic Forces and its post-apocalyptic setting.

[Wraith]

 I know some of you love Black Knight but it should be obvious at this point how divisive that game was and is. I don't really feel like debating it's qualites much beyond that because this isn't a Black Knight topic.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

know some of you love Black Knight but it should be obvious at this point how divisive that game was and is

Eh,  never said it wasn't. Just that one really has to actually take a look at what was remembered fondly and wasn't majorly, seeing as how ya can't just sum up the whole thing as disliked mainly. 

[Kintor]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

 I know some of you love Black Knight but it should be obvious at this point how divisive that game was and is. I don't really feel like debating it's qualites much beyond that because this isn't a Black Knight topic.

Sonic and the Black Knight's biggest problem was that it was made for the Wii, that means waggle controls. The potential of the Wiimote as a motion controller could never match the fidelity of swinging a real sword, despite Nintendo's marketing at the time. But that's not the point I was making - the important thing to observe is that the story in Sonic and the Black Knight was complicated, dark and ambitious. This is exactly the sort of thing we need in Sonic Forces, to match the post-apocalyptic setting. So I think that the same direct who worked on Sonic and the Black Knight is a reasonable choice to be working on Sonic Forces.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Eh,  never said it wasn't. Just that one really has to actually take a look at what was remembered fondly and wasn't majorly, seeing as how ya can't just sum up the whole thing as disliked mainly. 

For once we actually agree on something.

 

[Red Hot Jack]

So no one is gonna comment on that "unexpected character" thing? Nobody is expecting a returning character to be playable

[Dr. Detective]

I'll say that hearing about who is directing it doesn't do much to quell any concerns I might have had about how much they were planning on caring about the aesthetic and the storyline for this game, even if those aspects are the things about Forces I'm liking the most so far. When it comes to titles from the beginning of the 2010s onward, Generations was my favorite with Colors and Lost World being on the low end of the totem pole concerning ones I come back to and have admiration for. I'm not saying anything about my opinion of their overall quality, just that they're the ones that have the least stuff I like about Sonic in them.

Generations had a weak narrative as well but it was made up for (partly) because of the gameplay and the fact that the other characters were... around (cheerleader outfits and pom poms aside).Plus it gave off more of what I consider to be my particular taste in what constitutes as that "Sonic" feel a lot better than Colors before it and Lost World after it. Not to a 100% degree but it was there. I admire the game for what it is and I can go back to it easily without getting bored.

Sonic Forces looks (from what little I've seen of it) to be within the Generations ball-park more than the other two though which is great and also not too surprising. Despite the director, there's probably a ton of people influencing what's going on behind the scenes that I'm still unaware of at the moment so it's not like I'm freaking out of anything. Hearing a tidbit you'd rather not hear is always going to bother you a bit regardless though.

It's a great thing that the awesome premise of "Eggman's taken over 99% of the world" is just too beautiful to drain me of my excitement completely.

I'd be even more excited if I were certain it actually was going to be about Sonic and his Resistance fighting off Eggman to take back their planet. That sounds like it'd be cool. But again, you throw in Classic Sonic and the jenga tower just collapses...

The more time passes, the weirder his presence is becoming now actually. I thought I'd understand more the further we went along and the more I found out about it but it's actually making less sense. I keep getting this mental image of the Sonic Heroes opening and then at the very end when they all come together to pose to the title screen, Classic Sonic runs up from out of the ether and is like "Hey guys! I'm here too! You all know me. I'm the marketing tactic essential gameplay element that the critics everyone needs!"

I dunno. It's getting stranger to me now and the mystery behind this third character isn't sitting well in the pit of my stomach at the moment. 

To be fair though, at this point, I doubt whoever they picked to direct wouldn't have elicited the reaction of "Holy shit! Not THAT guy!" from some sub-group in the fanbase. Divided we stand.

[Mark1]

Game will be discussed on Nintendo Direct shortly. Keep an eye out for potential news.

Edit: Classic Sonic gameplay. New characters is also shown. 

 

 

[Blue Blood]

Oh piss off Green Hill Zone 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

I'm not sure what it is...but it's not quite Green Hill?

 

Yeah no I think it's dumb too

[Patron]

The Sonic X Bubsy crossover we've all been waiting for.

[Shiny Gems]

Does the new character look like a cat to you guys? Just wondering, as it does to me.