Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Something to consider, and this is not to slam Pontaff's work, but I think part of this can be attributed to how they are directed and what material they're working with. Ken Pontac, for example, is a television writer and has written for kids' shows and animated series (and despite my dislike of his and Graff's Sonic work, I still praise the three episodes of Generator Rex he wrote),

As much as I don't like his Sonic work, I can attest to his quality being better outside of it, having seen one episode of the rebooted Thunderbirds show where he was the writer, and it did not have any of the issues I have against his work in Sonic.

[Sonictrainer]

I don't think just reusing older characters is the solution either.

Imagine if when SEGA created Sonic and the Secret Rings, instead of making new characters, they decided use Blaze as genie of the ring and make Silver the Genie of the Lamp.

Or if in Sonic Unleashed, instead of having Chip and Dark Gaia, we have Light Froggy and Dark Big.

Or in Sonic Adventure 2, Team Heroes consisted of Sonic, Tails, and Amy and Team Dark consisted of Knuckles, Eggman, and Metal Sonic.

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I don't think just reusing older characters is the solution either.

Imagine if when SEGA created Sonic and the Secret Rings, instead of making new characters, they decided use Blaze as genie of the ring and make Silver the Genie of the Lamp.

Or if in Sonic Unleashed, instead of having Chip and Dark Gaia, we have Light Froggy and Dark Big.

Or in Sonic Adventure 2, Team Heroes consisted of Sonic, Tails, and Amy and Team Dark consisted of Knuckles, Eggman, and Metal Sonic.

 

Well the former could half-work, since the Storybook is TECHNICALLY an alternate version of the Sonic cast. The latter two sound like something out of a fanfiction made by a drunk guy.

[MadmanRB]

4 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I don't think just reusing older characters is the solution either.

Imagine if when SEGA created Sonic and the Secret Rings, instead of making new characters, they decided use Blaze as genie of the ring and make Silver the Genie of the Lamp.

Or if in Sonic Unleashed, instead of having Chip and Dark Gaia, we have Light Froggy and Dark Big.

Or in Sonic Adventure 2, Team Heroes consisted of Sonic, Tails, and Amy and Team Dark consisted of Knuckles, Eggman, and Metal Sonic.

 

Actually for Sonic Adventure 2 that might have worked really well. Now as for Sonic Secret Rings I don't care because I don't consider it a main Series game and was a gimmick motion control game  for a console that I didn't give a shit about  and Sonic Unleashed that's just plain silly with that stupid werewolf gimmick

[Sonictrainer]

3 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Actually for Sonic Adventure 2 that might have worked really well. Now as for Sonic Secret Rings I don't care because I don't consider it a main Series game and Sonic Unleashed that's just plain silly with that stupid werewolf gimmick

Why is Amy suddenly the guardian of the Master Emerald?

I didn't change the stories, I only swapped the characters. :|

[MadmanRB]

2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Why is Amy suddenly the guardian of the Master Emerald?

I didn't change the stories, I swapped the characters. :|

Well it's not like Knuckles is the smartest character out there to be fooled by a idiot makes him the biggest moron in the Sonic franchise and we've seen Knuckles attack Sonic in Sonic Adventure 1 and still be the guardian of the Master Emerald and was fooled because he is a freaking idiot. Honestly any character who can be fooled by a pathetic villain like Eggman who can't even conquer a grain of sand makes him a bigger moron then any other character out there even big the cat looks like freaking Albert Einstein compared to him

[Nepenthe]

8 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

_{well that part I think it's coming from the medicine I'm taking for my cold sometimes it interferes with the meds I take for my bipolar disorder and interrupts my train of thought and I do apologize for that at least yes my negative opinions stand however they were Amplified by the over-the-counter medicines I'm taking for my head cold. Again this is all just bad timing I'm normally much better at this and this is all initial reactions in the end}

None of this is an excuse for the awful attitude you've displayed towards other members and their arguments in this thread. You've already been warned once about it. One more terrible outburst and you're getting a strike.

 

[Darinian]

6 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Well it's not like Knuckles is the smartest character out there to be fooled by a idiot makes him the biggest moron in the Sonic franchise and we've seen Knuckles attack Sonic in Sonic Adventure 1 and still be the guardian of the Master Emerald and was fooled because he is a freaking idiot. Honestly any character who can be fooled by a pathetic villain like Eggman who can't even conquer a grain of sand makes him a bigger moron then any other character out there even big the cat looks like freaking Albert Einstein compared to him

Play knuckles' story in SA1. Do you really not believe that anyone couldve gotten tricked by eggman like that? (Or watch the cutscenes whatevs)

[MadmanRB]

2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

None of this is an excuse for the awful attitude you've displayed towards other members and their arguments in this thread. You've already been warned once about it. One more terrible outburst and you're getting a strike.

 

Again I do apologize for that I honestly am sorry if I am being observed as being rude

[Sonictrainer]

Also, when you've been living in solitude on a floating island for most of your life, being hot headed and lacking social skills are not going to help you when traveling elsewhere.

[MadmanRB]

Just now, Sonictrainer said:

Also, when you've been living in solitude on a floating island for most of your life, being hot headed and lacking social skills are not going to help you when traveling elsewhere.

Yeah but when you actually do you play Sonic Adventure 1 Knuckles does look like a plain flat-out idiot for believing Eggman not once but twice. I can pardon the first Contact that he had as he didn't know but come on. And I actually just played Sonic Adventure 1 and watched the cutscenes and yes in my opinion Knuckles is a moron

[FriendBot]

I mean, he kinda has a point. Knuckles should've known better than to trust Eggman in Adventure. I'm mean the fat fuck stole the very thing he swore to protect, electrocuted his ass and played him like a fool. There was no way he should have given Eggman any sort of trust. I mean, wasn't it established at the end of 3&K that him and Sonic were in good terms at the very least?

This is why I vastly the current Archie Knuckles over the main series.

[Darinian]

Just now, MadmanRB said:

Yeah but when you actually do you play Sonic Adventure 1 Knuckles does look like a plain flat-out idiot for believing Eggman not once but twice. I can pardon the first Contact that he had as he didn't know but come on. And I actually just played Sonic Adventure 1 and watched the cutscenes and yes in my opinion Knuckles is a moron

He's lived on a rock for his whole life. From the way I see it, he's a baby in the trust department: he looks at someone and they'll be the ruler until someone else pops up.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

29 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I don't think just reusing older characters is the solution either.

Imagine if when SEGA created Sonic and the Secret Rings, instead of making new characters, they decided use Blaze as genie of the ring and make Silver the Genie of the Lamp.

Or if in Sonic Unleashed, instead of having Chip and Dark Gaia, we have Light Froggy and Dark Big.

Or in Sonic Adventure 2, Team Heroes consisted of Sonic, Tails, and Amy and Team Dark consisted of Knuckles, Eggman, and Metal Sonic.

 

Well, technically, considering how Secret Rings made Knuckles into Sinbad, how the heck could that not work? It's not even of the same universe as the main series anyway.

Heck, it's actually easy to imagine SA2 working that way as well, provided that - and I say this with emphasis - you rework the entire story to make it work that it wouldn't be the same as what we got. But as far as Knuckles being on Team Dark, you could get away with that part at least by having Eggman mind control him on his side - not that I would want or recommend that mind you, but saying that it's actually possible for it to work that way if that's how they wanted things to be set up.

The Unleashed example is definitely silly tho. No way would that have worked like that and have people take it at face value.  

[FriendBot]

I mean it's fair he could've trust Eggman when he first met Eggman, I'll give that excuse.

But as the saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Or in Knux's case, fool me five-six times, now you're just being stupid. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

34 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

Again you don't get narrative seems like nobody does in this fandom it seems and how do you know it's going to be a male character? 

I had a choice between it, him and her I've had several written works performed on stage to critical acclaim, so I'd like to think I do know a little about narrative and can spot a poor argument about character use when I see one.

So far your argument boils down to the following. "Why do we need this character when this character does exactly the same?" 

Which would be fine if it were true, case in point you don't seem to know the difference between characterisation and character abilities. 

You got upset over Cream when Tails exists because they both fly... Yeah and? How are they the same character? How can Tails be put in Creams rolet in Heroes or any other game for it to make any believable sense?

[Blazey Firekitty]

The main thing that confuses me about this debate about whether or not the series needs any new characters is that I thought the reception to Sticks was almost totally positive and that most people wouldn't mind her paling around with Amy in the main continuity?

[Scape]

14 minutes ago, Blazey Firekitty said:

The main thing that confuses me about this debate about whether or not the series needs any new characters is that I thought the reception to Sticks was almost totally positive and that most people wouldn't mind her paling around with Amy in the main continuity?

I distinctly remember Sticks being disliked when she was first introduced.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

 

I had a choice between it, him and her I've had several written works performed on stage to critical acclaim, so I'd like to think I do know a little about narrative and can spot a poor argument about character use when I see one.

So far your argument boils down to the following. "Why do we need this character when this character does exactly the same?" 

Which would be fine if it were true, case in point you don't seem to know the difference between characterisation and character abilities. 

You got upset over Cream when Tails exists because they both fly... Yeah and? How are they the same character? How can Tails be put in Creams rolet in Heroes or any other game for it to make any believable sense?

This video also helps your point. It's by Silver Quill, and it's primarily about MLP:FiM, but the general premise is solid about how a set of powers or traits can be shared between characters, but they can still be their own unique individual due to how they react to situations, their personality differences, and so on and so forth.

[Sonictrainer]

Quote

I mean it's fair he could've trust Eggman when he first met Eggman, I'll give that excuse.

But as the saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Or in Knux's case, fool me five-six times, now you're just being stupid. 

That's another reason why I mentioned his hot headedness.

As soon as Knuckles has a reason to, he will go straight into a fight.

Even Knuckles questioned Eggman's story.

However, once he saw Sonic had a "Green Emerald", that was evidence to Eggman's claim and reason to start punching.

 

Anyway, back to my original point.

Just because we have characters with similar abilities doesn't mean they can fill in for one another in any story.

Back to the Adventure 2 idea I posted, I swapped Amy for Knuckles, Knuckles for Shadow, and Metal Sonic for Rouge.

Why is Knuckles suddenly the ultimate lifeform? Why is Metal Sonic suddenly a spy?

As interesting as that sounds for an alternate universe/retelling of older games, it doesn't make sense without changing the entire story.

Otherwise, we have games like 2006 where Blaze is hanging with Silver with no explanation.

Or going by earlier logic, if we swapped Cream with Tails in Sonic Lost World, it's no problem, right?

I agree that there are a number of older characters and heroes we have access to but I don't think an announcement of an new character is a bad thing, especially since 

• we need more villains beside Eggman and the Deadly Six
• I've enjoy seeing old and new Sonic characters in the Archie Comics
• I really don't want to see either Tails put in an navigator role again

[Joellui]

For whoever the writer(s) for Sonic '17, I hope this new character whether it's a villain or a new friend of sort, hopefully the character or/and the game for that matter is written in a way in which that I would like to see the new character come back. I want this new character to have a long lasting impression/impact on me, similarly to how I was very invested in Shadow when he first appeared and how we was portrayed and always wondering if he would ever come back. 

In which eventually he did. 

[MadmanRB]

1 minute ago, Scape said:

I distinctly remember Sticks being hated when she was first introduced.

Yes she only grown on people because of the Sonic Boom Cartoon

[Blacklightning]

42 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I don't think just reusing older characters is the solution either.

Imagine if when SEGA created Sonic and the Secret Rings, instead of making new characters, they decided use Blaze as genie of the ring and make Silver the Genie of the Lamp.

Or if in Sonic Unleashed, instead of having Chip and Dark Gaia, we have Light Froggy and Dark Big.

Or in Sonic Adventure 2, Team Heroes consisted of Sonic, Tails, and Amy and Team Dark consisted of Knuckles, Eggman, and Metal Sonic.

If I may play devil's advocate on this for a moment, isn't this essential just a Thermian Argument by any other name? Sure, absolutely, shoehorning existing characters into roles already taken by other characters is unlikely to work - but then again, nobody (or at least not very many? If it's in the scope of this thread I can't say I've noticed) actually expects this of Sonic Team. They expect them to make a narrative and/or gameplay style specifically in mind for their characters of choice. I don't think anyone expects them to pull a Case West and retroactively replace newer characters with old ones without respect for context. That's silly.

[Blazey Firekitty]

2 minutes ago, Scape said:

I distinctly remember Sticks being hated when she was first introduced.

Whoops, I guess either things changed or I've been listening specifically to Sticks fans. XD;

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

24 minutes ago, Soni.exe said:

I mean it's fair he could've trust Eggman when he first met Eggman, I'll give that excuse.

But as the saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Or in Knux's case, fool me five-six times, now you're just being stupid. 

Errrr, you're kinda forgetting that he didn't really trust Eggman from the get-go.

It went actually in the procedure that Eggamn's allegations against Sonic aroused dubious suspicions that were conveniently confirmed in the split second on first glance of what appeared to be a Master Emerald shard.

Let's not try and needlessly drag SA1 through that old mud routine again.