Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Jango]

I don't know if it was union or what, but David Humphrey should've been came back as Shadow. He's one of the best English actors we've had in this series, and that's saying a shitload considering he's from the Dreamcast era. My only consolation of him getting booted is that his legacy isn't attached to ShtH nor is he gonna be wasted in this current era.

Damn, would have loved that, he was great, especially in Heroes. Then again, I also like Ryan as Sonic better.

[Chorizeria]

On 12/17/2016 at 5:16 PM, Jango said:

Generations can't not be canon.

Iizuka confirmed that Generations would be the end of it's respective canon at the E3 2015 event, keep up.

[PickleBrows]

9 minutes ago, Chorizeria said:

Iizuka confirmed that Generations would be the end of it's respective canon at the E3 2015 event, keep up.

SEGA itself barely had a presence at E3 2015, never mind Iizuka and Sonic, but that aside I honestly don't remember him saying anything like that at any point. Have you got a source for this?

[Remy]

1 hour ago, Chorizeria said:

Iizuka confirmed that Generations would be the end of it's respective canon at the E3 2015 event, keep up.

It's pretty weird, that this game looks like it has the exact same set up (classic and modern) then. Almost seems like a sequel.

[Pixel]

If it is like Generations, I hope they get Classic Sonic's personality right and make him more prominent in the plot. One of the best things about the glorious Classic titles was Sonic, and I hope that the true Classic incarnation of Sonic eclipses the poor man's imitation of Modern Sonic.

Here's hoping that Mania's hype and development will guide and complement Sonic Team's latest incarnation of the true Classic Sonic.

[Sonictrainer]

I hope Classic Sonic actually talks in words and sentences instead of being silent.

[Fr0zenanus]

Takashi Iizuka posted on his facebook, what seems to be the next Sonic party in japan:

 http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicChannel/topics/event/20161124_001236/

[Pixel]

I don't want Classic Sonic to speak, mainly because I don't want the true Sonic from the glorious Classic titles to be tarnished with horrible voice acting and direction by assocation with a hypothetical talking fake Classic Sonic.

And the Classic Sonic games are glorious and I will continue to call them glorious.

[Lucid Dream]

Pretty sure Classic Sonic wasn't tarnished by Sonic OVA, STC or Sonic SATAM and he spoke in all of them. He also had a personality, and actually felt like an interesting character in many cases. Definitely wouldn't say he had a bad voice actor in Sonic OVA either.

The Classic Sonic in Generations really doesn't feel like the actual classic Sonic in Triple Trouble and CD. Sonic was never so cheerful in his older games. Look at Sonic CD's OP and ED where he hardly ever smiles. 

[Diogenes]

17 minutes ago, Christmas Dreams said:

Sonic was never so cheerful in his older games. Look at Sonic CD's OP and ED where he hardly ever smiles. 

He smiles a fair bit in them, actually. Not as much as in Generations, but that's also comparing mostly action scenes to mostly dialogue scenes.

[Darinian]

But then there's the classics (1,2, and 3) where he has the permanent frown 24/7

[Diogenes]

Most of his sprites in 1 and 2 don't have a visible mouth at all, and while it might be debatable I've always interpreted his neutral expression in 3&K as a smile. Plus there's plenty of examples of him smiling on the title screens, signposts, the endgame poses, things like that. Again it's kind of that issue of action scenes vs more casual or victorious scenes.

[Bowbowis]

4 hours ago, Pixel said:

And the Classic Sonic games are glorious and I will continue to call them glorious.

You can do whatever you like but don't expect anyone to take you seriously. The folks on this forum tend to be more appreciative of those who at least make an attempt to engage in intelligent debate. Now, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and you're free to express it however you wish, but acting like every one-dimensional parody of Classic Sonic purists ever is not going to get you anywhere here. Either elaborate on your views and say something constructive so we can discuss it, or people are going to get real sick of you real fast. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Now, on to the topic at hand: Regardless of how he was in the Classics, Sonic, like most characters, is at his best when he has a wide range of expressions and emotions to work with. Humans are complex creatures with complex feelings and we like to see that reflected in our characters because it makes them feel closer to us. That's a big reason why Sonic seems so much more likable and engaging in games like Adventure 2 and the Storybooks, where he's allowed to express feelings of happiness, sadness, anger, fear, etc., than he does in games like '06 or Colors, where he's perpetually locked into a state of either unflappable calm or snarky boredom. The more emotions Sonic gets to express, and the more frequently he expresses him, the more relatable he becomes.

To be clear, when I say Sonic should be expressive I don't mean he has to curl up into a ball an suck his thumb whenever something frightening happens, or even that he has to be upfront with his emotions. He should however demonstrate an appropriate emotional response to the situation, and it should still be present in some measure, even if he's not open about it. Some good examples of this done right would be the ending scene of Adventure 2 and the scene in Secret Rings where Sonic realizes that the flame arrow is almost completely gone. In SA2 we see Sonic acting like his usual self with Amy, but with Rouge (who is more mature than Amy and doesn't look to Sonic as a pillar of strength the way she does) and in private he's noticeably more open about his sadness over Shadow's presumed death. Similarly, in Secret Rings Sonic is seen putting on a brave face for Shahra but, his immediate reaction after collapsing betrays some of the fear he feels knowing that his life is about to end, and although he is able to mostly regain his composure he's still pretty clearly shaken up by the ordeal.

[Milo]

Speaking under the assumption that other classic depictions of characters do appear in this game, I don't mind if classic Sonic speaks or not as long as it's consistent with the other classic characters. Classic Sonic being silent but classic Tails and Eggman being able to talk fine in Generations was a strange attempt to have it both ways that didn't work well IMO. Either have all the classic characters speak or have all the classic characters silent.

[Pixel]

It would be good to see a silent Classic Knuckles, chuckling away with no dialogue.

[Wraith]

Classic Sonic not speaking is a reference. If this game is less heavy on the references and he has more of a part in the story I guess it would make more sense for him to talk. Still don't get really why he's there though. Seems at odds with the game.

[Lucid Dream]

27 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Classic Sonic was at his best when emotions and tension were indication through actions and expression. Look at the glorious Classic titles. 

Wow. All that expression. I don't know if I can handle it. 

I don't expect Sonic to have all the expressions in the world, but something that has a much wider range would work a lot better. The last thing I want is for Sega to abandon all the improvements they've made with expressiveness in more recent games (like Sonic Advance), just to revert to Sonic having 3 expressions.

[Sonictrainer]

32 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Lava Reef 3

You mean Hidden Palace Zone?

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

That's a big reason why Sonic seems so much more likable and engaging in games like Adventure 2 and the Storybooks, where he's allowed to express feelings of happiness, sadness, anger, fear, etc., than he does in games like '06 or Colors, where he's perpetually locked into a state of either unflappable calm or snarky boredom.

It'd be nice if people would actually look at the games they're trying to criticize. Do this, this, and this not count as showing emotions beyond calm or snarky?

[Darinian]

1 minute ago, Sonictrainer said:

You mean Hidden Palace Zone?

The level select says lava reef 3, so he could be going with that.

[Pixel]

2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

You mean Hidden Palace Zone?

Nah, it's listed as Lava Reef 3 on the level select.

I was referring to the Eggman chase.

8 minutes ago, Christmas Dreams said:

Wow. All that expression. I don't know if I can handle it. 

I don't expect Sonic to have all the expressions in the world, but something that has a much wider range would work a lot better. The last thing I want is for Sega to abandon all the improvements they've made with expressiveness in more recent games (like Sonic Advance), just to revert to Sonic having 3 expressions.

I said the titles not the sprites, you pumpkin

Look at CD's opening and the promotional art

[Lucid Dream]

23 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It'd be nice if people would actually look at the games they're trying to criticize. Do this, this, and this not count as showing emotions beyond calm or snarky?

In 2 of them he's still perfectly calm (somehow) and only has slightly more emotion than usual. Only having a single scene where he breaks the mold completely, despite several opportunities too, is really not showing him as expressive. 

21 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I was referring to the Eggman chase.

I said the titles not the sprites, you pumpkin

Look at CD's opening and the promotional art

But in the Eggman chase they only use sprites?! And since when was promotional art a part of the games? There's plenty of expressive promotional art of modern Sonic as well.

I don't really see how Sonic CD's opening has any more emotion than Sonic Riders op. They're both in a (gorgeous) anime style too, so I think that's the best comparison. I really don't know how you could say Sonic CD's opening is more emotive than it. Personally, I would say Sonic Riders is quite a bit more emotive. 

[Sonictrainer]

1 minute ago, Zoroark & Flare said:

The level select says lava reef 3, so he could be going with that.

Huh, didn't know the Level Select said that.

Anyway having a Modern Sonic game where the main characters don't actually talk, especially Sonic himself, is odd to me.

That may be fine for Sonic Mania, but for Project 2017, I'd like him to actually speak and have interesting conversations with himself.

It shouldn't be too hard if Classic Tails and Classic Eggman could talk just fine in Generations. Seriously, did Time Eater take his voice away?

Also, hoping the time/space travel element is a better here.

[JezMM]

I don't think I'd mind Classic Sonic getting a voice if him being silent got in the way of the plot.  They could easily make a joke about his first line as everyone expresses surprise that he can talk etc.  It could even be a very self-aware running gag that Modern Sonic finds it annoying that Classic talks all the time now, or at the very least Classic could occasionally let slip a bit of outdated 90's slang and Modern could find it embarrassing (followed by ironically using some 00's slang that's on the verge of being outdated already).

As for expressions in the classic games, doesn't Sonic have the same facial expression throughout the entire intro to Sonic CD?  He just looks serious/focused the entire time, with a dash of surprise when he first sees the state of Little Planet (or the rock falling, the camera cut doesn't quite make it clear which he was looking at but yeah, same difference).

54 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I want Sonic to be expressive, I just don't want him to be defiled by the awful voice acting and voice direction of post 1993.

Classic Sonic was at his best when emotions and tension were indication through actions and expression. Look at the glorious Classic titles. Lava Reef 3 has the most tension of the entire series, and Knuckles finding out about Eggman's betrayl is a far more epic and emotional scene than anything in the melodramatic and D grade cringe of Adventure.

Generations made Classic Sonic too cuddly, and I want the full gamut of True Classic Sonic's moods without voice acting.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/glorious?s=t

Please

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Dreams said:

In 2 of them he's still perfectly calm (somehow) and only has slightly more emotion than usual. Only having a single scene where he breaks the mold completely, despite several opportunities too, is really not showing him as expressive.

He's not over the top emotional but he is by no means "unflappably calm".

And I'd wager if he showed much more emotion than that some people would be calling it OOC or "wacky".

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

As for expressions in the classic games, doesn't Sonic have the same facial expression throughout the entire intro to Sonic CD?  He just looks serious/focused the entire time, with a dash of surprise when he first sees the state of Little Planet (or the rock falling, the camera cut doesn't quite make it clear which he was looking at but yeah, same difference).

They tended to stick with his serious face, especially in the shots where you get the clearest look at his face, but he does smile a few times, most notably during the wallrun after he skims over the water.