Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[FriendBot]

4 minutes ago, Jango said:

And there's Boom!, which is action/adventure hack n' slash.

I think you mean, beat 'em up. Also that only really applies to Rise of Lyric, which is probably only going to be a one-off unless you want to consider LEGO Sonic into it...

[Potada]

On the topic of LW's Parkour, I'll admit that I only have experience with the 3DS version. That being said, I noticed in people's descriptions and in gameplay videos how the Wii U and PC versions have a very slow jump. Yet, the 3DS's jump actually keeps your speed and even makes you go faster if you don't use the run button. In fact you can basically Parkour by simply jumping towards a wall while slowly walking or just Spin Dashing into it. Knowing this, it makes me wonder, were P17 to implement Parkour, if there's something to learn from this.

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, Pawn said:

The level design is a problem if it works poorly with Classic physics though and my point was that it could have forced the team to alter them. I'm not sure where that quote comes from, but rep or not I don't know how reliable that information is.

Funnily enough, I just found the interview, done by this site no less. It was paraphrased to me by Brutalmoose on DYKG's episode on Sonic Generations.

 https://www.sonicstadium.org/2011/07/interview-with-aaron-webber/

Essentially, Aaron says the entire game would have had to be redesigned if the team were to do a drastic change to the physics engine in order to make them more accurate, something that was definitely not an option.

[Tracker_TD]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

My ass, if they bothered calling an Era Dreamcast and the other Modern, they're considering different Sonics.

People are still going on about that "Dreamcast Sonic is a thing!" nonsense?

Hush. No he bloody isn't. Let it go.

 

[FriendBot]

Just now, Zippo said:

Funnily enough, I just found the interview, done by this site no less. It was paraphrased to me by Brutalmoose on DYKG's episode on Sonic Generations.

 https://www.sonicstadium.org/2011/07/interview-with-aaron-webber/

Essentially, Aaron says the entire game would have had to be redesigned if the team were to do a drastic change to the physics engine in order to make them more accurate, something that was definitely not an option.

If that's the case then, that might be a big possibility that 2017 will have more accurate physics for Classic Sonic. Crossing my fingers for that, Classic was fine in Gens but without those physics, it just didn't feel right.

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes and 2006 are different enough from each other to seriously challenge this.

You can't just toss 06 away because it's a poor game. 

The storybook games are hardly consistent with each other. 

The post-classic era of Sonic is an unmitigated disaster when you try to categorize them beyond "is it a boost game or not." A conversation on this can't possibly flow well, besides which it's been done to death.

Lost World needs to be shot behind a dumpster. 

Same. I don't care what anyone says, Lost World is poorly designed piece of a shit game that desperately wanted to be Mario Galaxy. The 3DS version is the worst game Dimps has ever made.

[FriendBot]

I don't care what anyone says, Lost World is a strange and confusing game that's also pretty enjoyable while the 3DS version is Sonic Heroes on a 3DS with Parkour (and I like Heroes so yeah :P)

[Celestia]

I mean, Dreamcast Sonic and Modern Sonic could be "different Sonics" in the same sense Classic and Modern are, i.e. they're literally the same character from different times. I know there's been a lot of talk about SEGA considering them separate and there is some truth to that, but just going by Generations and (presumably) this game, they are supposed to be the same person from an in-universe standpoint. So a Dreamcast Sonic showing up is theoretically possible, even if I'm not expecting it.

...Why are we arguing about this, again

[Zippo]

Also, wasn't there some rumor about an "Adventure" Sonic showing up in Generations or was that straight up bullshit?

[FriendBot]

Must be an misinterpretation just like how people thought Classic was originally going to be voiced by Jaleel White.

I mean, Ryan did re-audition to reprise his role but SEGA said he'd get it if he dropped his union, which Ryan was like all "nah" about it. So yeah, good luck getting Drummond back.

[Tracker_TD]

31 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I mean, Dreamcast Sonic and Modern Sonic could be "different Sonics" in the same sense Classic and Modern are, i.e. they're literally the same character from different times. I know there's been a lot of talk about SEGA considering them separate and there is some truth to that, but just going by Generations and (presumably) this game, they are supposed to be the same person from an in-universe standpoint. So a Dreamcast Sonic showing up is theoretically possible, even if I'm not expecting it.

...Why are we arguing about this, again

With that logic, we've got a hell of a lot of potential Sonics. Can't wait for "I appeared in SpikeOut" Sonic.

[Zippo]

52 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

The one on the top far left

Wuh

[Celestia]

Like I said, they won't do it, although that does highlight the main (and very obvious ) reason why: the character design. Modern Sonic as we know him now is just SA1 Sonic's design with a lot more polygons and maybe some tweaks. Like, imagine there had been a new Sonic platformer on the Saturn and it was drastically different from the classics, it'd still be baffling to have a "Saturn Sonic" as a separate entity because visually, you'd just have two Classic Sonics.

 

Anyway, I'd rather Modern Sonic be used to represent Sonic Adventure-based gameplay if (shockingly enough) they decided to give it another shot. Sure, I'd really like to see that, but it'd be annoying if they brought in a third Sonic just for that, especially since it'd mean three different styles in one game. Yeah, no. On top of that, while I won't mind if boost is back, it's not what I want for Modern Sonic forever and always, and that'd just continue to validate that, y'know?

[Jango]

I mean, Dreamcast Sonic and Modern Sonic could be "different Sonics" in the same sense Classic and Modern are, i.e. they're literally the same character from different times. I know there's been a lot of talk about SEGA considering them separate and there is some truth to that, but just going by Generations and (presumably) this game, they are supposed to be the same person from an in-universe standpoint. So a Dreamcast Sonic showing up is theoretically possible, even if I'm not expecting it.

...Why are we arguing about this, again

I dunno, honestly I started the discussion because Soni came at me saying Dreamcast Sonic isn't a thing, and while calling it like this is """"wrong"""", there are differences enough, in philosophy and design for me to prefer one over another if I want. Just like people say CD/OVA Sonic is their favorite and sometimes treat it like a thing too, but it's still Classic Sonic, isn't it? And isn't the design/attitude you like? I like the Dreamcast design and attitude, mind you go back a few posts and see that I said this in my first quote: that I liked the slangs and SOAP shoes.

But some of you guys are all spiky and shit. Damn. I'm sorry.

[Pawn]

9 hours ago, Zippo said:

Funnily enough, I just found the interview, done by this site no less. It was paraphrased to me by Brutalmoose on DYKG's episode on Sonic Generations.

 https://www.sonicstadium.org/2011/07/interview-with-aaron-webber/

Essentially, Aaron says the entire game would have had to be redesigned if the team were to do a drastic change to the physics engine in order to make them more accurate, something that was definitely not an option.

So yeah, it was likely completed level design that prevented more accurate Classic gameplay. Hopefully they've remedied that this time.

[Ajavalo]

I'm pretty sure Sonic Team are now well aware of how classic Sonic gameplay should work from all the feedback given on Sonic 4 and the Taxman remakes, which hadn't happened yet at the time of Generations' conception. Implementation for PJ2017 isn't out of the question, is it?

But, allow me to say that the physics don't necessarily have to be 1:1 with the classic games in order to maintain the "experience", as long as the important features are there: if there is decent momentum to rolling and little scripting, it won't matter, for example, whether Sonic runs faster or jumps higer or things like those.

If they don't even get the basics right, I'll be very pissed this time.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

7 hours ago, Ajavalo said:

I'm pretty sure Sonic Team are now well aware of how classic Sonic gameplay should work from all the feedback given on Sonic 4 and the Taxman remakes, which hadn't happened yet at the time of Generations' conception. Implementation for PJ2017 isn't out of the question, is it?

But, allow me to say that the physics don't necessarily have to be 1:1 with the classic games in order to maintain the "experience", as long as the important features are there: if there is decent momentum to rolling and little scripting, it won't matter, for example, whether Sonic runs faster or jumps higer or things like those.

If they don't even get the basics right, I'll be very pissed this time.

Honestly, this just makes me think that keeping in Classic Sonic for Project 2017 was an even worse idea in hindsight, because with Sonic Mania also being released, the differences and flaws in the Classic Sonic gameplay in this game are just going to be even more pronounced and obvious since now there's something relatively recent to actually compare with. I can see the calls of this version being an "inferior" Classic Sonic being used as a crutch for the "inferior" Modern Sonic gameplay being yelled throughout the internet the day these games come out right now...

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Honestly, this just makes me think that keeping in Classic Sonic for Project 2017 was an even worse idea in hindsight, because with Sonic Mania also being released, the differences and flaws in the Classic Sonic gameplay in this game are just going to be even more pronounced and obvious since now there's something relatively recent to actually compare with. I can see the calls of this version being an "inferior" Classic Sonic being used as a crutch for the "inferior" Modern Sonic gameplay being yelled throughout the internet the day these games come out right now...

Mirrors exactly what I said yesterday. It's going to be an uphill battle for Sonic Team. It doesn't matter what they do or say, they're going to be painted as villains by many people and the media before and after it's release, I've already seen it. It's unintential, of course, but the Mania team has shown up Sonic Team before either of their games have been released. They know Classic Sonic is a nostalgic crowd pleaser and that's why they included him, but i feel this will be to their detriment, I'm afraid.

[MegasonicZX]

8 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Honestly, this just makes me think that keeping in Classic Sonic for Project 2017 was an even worse idea in hindsight, because with Sonic Mania also being released, the differences and flaws in the Classic Sonic gameplay in this game are just going to be even more pronounced and obvious since now there's something relatively recent to actually compare with. I can see the calls of this version being an "inferior" Classic Sonic being used as a crutch for the "inferior" Modern Sonic gameplay being yelled throughout the internet the day these games come out right now...

There really isn't anything they can do about it honestly, the game was probably far along in development before sonic mania became a thing. Personally, I never had a problem with classic sonic's physics in generations because I thought they worked for the type of level design that was presented, the only real problem with it was having the ability to easily jump over large chunks of level without even trying so if you charged a spin dash on an uphill and jumped. I wouldn't mind if they did just do a 1:1 creation of classic sonic's physics in this game but I also wouldn't mind if they just worked on tweaking what they had created back in gens because I do think there was quite a bit of fun to be had with it.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, MegasonicZX said:

There really isn't anything they can do about it honestly, the game was probably far along in development before sonic mania became a thing. Personally, I never had a problem with classic sonic's physics in generations because I thought they worked for the type of level design that was presented, the only real problem with it was having the ability to easily jump over large chunks of level without even trying so if you charged a spin dash on an uphill and jumped. I wouldn't mind if they did just do a 1:1 creation of classic sonic's physics in this game but I also wouldn't mind if they just worked on tweaking what they had created back in gens because I do think there was quite a bit of fun to be had with it.

I know, and I myself don't particularly care that much, but I'm just saying that I have a feeling this is pretty much going to happen regardless of whatever they try to do to fix things up.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Really adds salt to the wound of Classic Sonic even being in this game, doesn't it? Especially if people don't feel they capture those basics this time around given the time they've had to do it.

Honestly, I'm actually more interested in how they'll work with Modern Sonic, if they're gonna actually do more than just the Boost formula. I'm honestly not that hooked onto the nostalgia factor for nostalgia's sake (which is why I don't often post in Mania given that I don't see that much innovation in the mechanics to be excited about aside from the Drop Dash, unless I overlooked a number of things).

[SonicComicFanboy]

7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Really adds salt to the wound of Classic Sonic even being in this game, doesn't it? Especially if people don't feel they capture those basics this time around given the time they've had to do it.

Honestly, I'm actually more interested in how they'll work with Modern Sonic, if they're gonna actually do more than just the Boost formula. I'm honestly not that hooked onto the nostalgia factor for nostalgia's sake (which is why I don't often post in Mania given that I don't see that much innovation in the mechanics to be excited about aside from the Drop Dash, unless I overlooked a number of things).

Yea.  Honestly I don't see the point of having Classic Sonic in the game either.  Ecspecially given the fact he has his own game via Sonic Mania.  It feels like SEGA doesn't have enough faith in Modern Sonic to let him stand on his own.

 

 I mean I am still hyped about the game and all, but I really wish they hadn't made it feel like Generations 2.0 even if they say it's not.

[Zippo]

39 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Yea.  Honestly I don't see the point of having Classic Sonic in the game either.  Ecspecially given the fact he has his own game via Sonic Mania.  It feels like SEGA doesn't have enough faith in Modern Sonic to let him stand on his own.

It's true and it's been this way for a decade. There's always a "crutch" or gimmick when it comes to Modern Sonic games. Unleashed had the Werehog, Colors had the Wisps, Generations had Classic Sonic and so on and so forth. He's being put in solely to please people, because of the bad reputation Modern Sonic has.

[SonicComicFanboy]

15 minutes ago, Zippo said:

It's true and it's been this way for a decade. There's always a "crutch" or gimmick when it comes to Modern Sonic games. Unleashed had the Werehog, Colors had the Wisps, Generations had Classic Sonic and so on and so forth. He's being put in solely to please people, because of the bad reputation Modern Sonic has.

 Personally I loved Colors, but yea, I do agree Sonic games have been over dependent on gimmicks for quite awhile.  At least we will always have the Adventure games & Heroes to enjoy.

[___-_]

@SenEDtor Missile

Hopefully, by the time Sonic '17 comes out, Sega will show an understanding that Classic Sonic doesn't have to be 1:1 (Although if it is, more power to them), just that his physics just has to make sense while having the level design play a significant factor with his mechanics. Having Sonic feel a little more weighted than usual is one thing, but there's no point in adding a spindash or designing levels with slopes when you can't even gain momentum from them, ya know? 

I'm sure if Sega at least shows they have a grasp on what and why they've designed whatever Sonic 101 aspect within their game instead of filling out a 'Classic era' aesthetics check list and ultimately having the whole experience feel unrealized and superfluous, most people won't mind all the little nuances between Mania's and '17's Sonic.