Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Soniman]

49 minutes ago, Zippo said:

It's true and it's been this way for a decade. There's always a "crutch" or gimmick when it comes to Modern Sonic games. Unleashed had the Werehog, Colors had the Wisps, Generations had Classic Sonic and so on and so forth. He's being put in solely to please people, because of the bad reputation Modern Sonic has.

Gimmicks aren't really the problem, literally every game has a "gimmick"  or "hook"  that tries to entice buyers to pick up said game because it has something that sets it apart from other games, Sonic's problem is that his gimmicks combined with the regular gameplay have been the equivalent to oil and water for the most part with rare exceptions (colors!wisps and classic for example). 

Sonic Team just needs to get better hooks that dont completey try to undermine and clash with the gameplay people actually bought the game to play for

[Wraith]

It just shows to me that sega doesn't believe they can make a solid 3D Modern Sonic game. I can't really blame them for feeling that way either. Generations cut down on the non platforming gimmicks considerably and is widely considered to be too short. If they can't do it another way I don't see the point in resenting them for it. 

I personally worry about how much I'll enjoy the game, but there's not enough to go on for me to feel very strongly either way about that.

 

 

[BlueFlare]

1 hour ago, StriCNYN3 said:

@SenEDtor Missile

Hopefully, by the time Sonic '17 comes out, Sega will show an understanding that Classic Sonic doesn't have to be 1:1 (Although if it is, more power to them), just that his physics just has to make sense while having the level design play a significant factor with his mechanics. Having Sonic feel a little more weighted than usual is one thing, but there's no point in adding a spindash or designing levels with slopes when you can't even gain momentum from them, ya know? 

Yeah, Generations' Classic Sonic was definitely attempt to better direction, but for me it lost its fun after a while. You dont't have that freedom like you had in the Genesis days. I'm not saying it is the only and definitive way of playing Classic Sonic, but I want full control over Sonic, use the stage's obstacles and shapes to build up momentum and find different ways to finish stages. Generations didn't offer me that chance. There are unnecessary scripted and automated parts when your actions are fully frozen and theres's not much variability choosing an alternative path. Since Mania is coming out I don't feel need for PJS2017 Classic play precisely like Mania's neither like Generstions, but if they choose the latter, it's Generations 2.0 for me.

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

  At least we will always have the Adventure games & Heroes to enjoy.

I don't enjoy any of those games, personally. But more power to you.

1 hour ago, StriCNYN3 said:

@SenEDtor Missile

Hopefully, by the time Sonic '17 comes out, Sega will show an understanding that Classic Sonic doesn't have to be 1:1 (Although if it is, more power to them), just that his physics just has to make sense while having the level design play a significant factor with his mechanics. Having Sonic feel a little more weighted than usual is one thing, but there's no point in adding a spindash or designing levels with slopes when you can't even gain momentum from them, ya know? 

I'm sure if Sega at least shows they have a grasp on what and why they've designed whatever Sonic 101 aspect within their game instead of filling out a 'Classic era' aesthetics check list and ultimately having the whole experience feel unrealized and superfluous, most people won't mind all the little nuances between Mania's and '17's Sonic.

I don't know about that. I could easily see the fans and media being 50/50 about the different physics in PS2017 if that does happen to be the case.

23 minutes ago, BlueFlare said:

Yeah, Generations' Classic Sonic was definitely attempt to better direction, but for me it lost its fun after a while. You dont't have that freedom like you had in the Genesis days. I'm not saying it is the definitive way of playing Classic Sonic, but I want full control over Sonic, use the stage's obstacles and shapes to build up momentum and find different ways to finish stages. Gens didn't offer me that chance. There are unnecessary scripted and automated parts when your actions are fully frozen and theres's not much variability choosing an alternative path. Since Mania is coming out I don't feel need for PJS2017 Classic play precisely like Mania's neither like Gens', but if they choose the latter, it's Generations 2.0 for me.

This is exactly how i feel. The Classic Sonic levels are like Force Awakens to me. For awhile, I'm having a blast, it's like coming home after being away for a long time. Then, as time goes on, the cracks start to reveal themselves more and more. Then, you realize how shallow and nostalgia fanservice obsessed it is.

[___-_]

Just now, BlueFlare said:

I'm not saying it is the only and definitive way of playing Classic Sonic, but I want full control over Sonic, use the stage's obstacles and shapes to build up momentum and find different ways to finish stages. 

Yea, pretty much how I feel how Sega should be tackling Sonic'17. I just want them to have an honest take on Classic Sonic this time around since he's so prominent as of late, ya know? Sonic should be having no business losing speed going down hills even if they somehow couldn't make it 1:1. Hopefully they've done their homework now by all these years instead of only looking at that era at a surface view.

 

Just now, Zippo said:

I don't know about that. I could easily see the fans and media being 50/50 about the different physics in PS2017 if that does happen to be the case.

 

For me, as long as Sega tweaks him so there're no capped heights when running off edges,  nerfing spindash charges that skip like 80% of the zones each dash and all that noise, I'd definitely be fine, granted if the zones accomodate for his abilities as well. 

I definitely can't speak for everyone, though, and there'll always be that one person that's '1:1 physics or bust', but I'd be hardpressed if the majority would become overly analytical against '17, even if it plays extremly close this time around.

[Ajavalo]

I don't have a problem with 2D (or 2.5D) gameplay, be it Classic or Modern, because there are certain platforming game elements that can only be done in 2D, and some elements that become too overcomplicated or don't feel as good when translated from 2D to 3D. There is more to 2.5D than just nostalgia, it offer gameplay variety of the well-measured, not too gimmicky kind.

If they're intending to build pure 2D gameplay with Classic Sonic and pure 3D gameplay with Modern Sonic, without interferences, this could IMO be a VERY good thing, because it's clear that modern gameplay in 2D isn't as fun -and classic gameplay won't feel the same in 3D, I still have not seen anyone manage it, not even Sonic Utopia at least at the moment-.

[Jango]

Honestly, this just makes me think that keeping in Classic Sonic for Project 2017 was an even worse idea in hindsight, because with Sonic Mania also being released, the differences and flaws in the Classic Sonic gameplay in this game are just going to be even more pronounced and obvious since now there's something relatively recent to actually compare with. I can see the calls of this version being an "inferior" Classic Sonic being used as a crutch for the "inferior" Modern Sonic gameplay being yelled throughout the internet the day these games come out right now...

Mirrors exactly what I said yesterday. It's going to be an uphill battle for Sonic Team. It doesn't matter what they do or say, they're going to be painted as villains by many people and the media before and after it's release, I've already seen it. It's unintential, of course, but the Mania team has shown up Sonic Team before either of their games have been released. They know Classic Sonic is a nostalgic crowd pleaser and that's why they included him, but i feel this will be to their detriment, I'm afraid.

Reaaaaally exagerating the situation here, you two. I don't really think the critics will compare both Classic Sonics to the point of calling one inferior because the physics are not perfect. I don't recall many reviews back in 2011 going crazy over the physics not being 100% accurate, this was always a fanbase complaint, especially on Retro.

At best we'll see them comparing art style, saying stuff like "16-bits suits Classic Sonic way better than 3D"...

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, Jango said:

Reaaaaally exagerating the situation here, you two. I don't really think the critics will compare both Classic Sonics to the point of calling one inferior because the physics are not perfect. I don't recall many reviews back in 2011 going crazy over the physics not being 100% accurate, this was always a fanbase complaint, especially on Retro.

At best we'll see them comparing art style, saying stuff like "16-bits suits Classic Sonic way better than 3D"...

Exaggerating? Huh? I'm giving a possible scenario to the game's reception. No one knows anything so it's impossible to say anything definitively.

2 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

Yea, pretty much how I feel how Sega should be tackling Sonic'17. I just want them to have an honest take on Classic Sonic this time around since he's so prominent as of late, ya know? Sonic should be having no business losing speed going down hills even if they somehow couldn't make it 1:1. Hopefully they've done their homework now by all these years instead of only looking at that era at a surface view.

 

For me, as long as Sega tweaks him so there're no capped heights when running off edges,  nerfing spindash charges that skip like 80% of the zones each dash and all that noise, I'd definitely be fine, granted if the zones accomodate for his abilities as well. 

I definitely can't speak for everyone, though, and there'll always be that one person that's '1:1 physics or bust', but I'd be hardpressed if the majority would become overly analytical against '17, even if it plays extremly close this time around.

Of course, that spin dash needs to be seriously nerfed. It made some levels a joke if you knew you were you doing. There's always going to be "that guy" with too much time on his hands criticizing any and everything is different. I think they'll do the smart thing and pay them no mind. Some people just can't be pleased.

 

[Clewis]

11 hours ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Yea.  Honestly I don't see the point of having Classic Sonic in the game either.  Ecspecially given the fact he has his own game via Sonic Mania.

I don't really understand this mentality. I mean, I know Mania and Project 2017 were announced around the same time, but I highly doubt Mania was in development before Sonic Team's game.

People want to act like Sonic Team greenlighted Mania and then said to themselves "Well, even though we've already got a classic-focused game in the works, let's throw classic Sonic in our game anyway", and that just seems silly to me.

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, Clewis said:

I don't really understand this mentality. I mean, I know Mania and Project 2017 were announced around the same time, but I highly doubt Mania was in development before Sonic Team's game.

People want to act like Sonic Team greenlighted Mania and then said to themselves "Well, even though we've already got a classic-focused game in the works, let's throw classic Sonic in our game anyway", and that just seems silly to me.

Right. I'm pretty sure that's not how it went. This game has been in development for at least 3 years, it could be more than that, I don't believe all of Sonic Team was working on Lost World either, they have two teams working on games concurrently, from my recollection

[azoo]

Personally, I'm just tired of the fact that Sega's all but accepted that (besides winking and nudging at dedicated fans about them being one and the same), classic and modern Sonic are now all but completely different characters, and Sega themselves actively wants you to see them that way. And boy, if the current Sonic community's most frequent discussions haven't convinced you that it worked, I don't know what will.

That's what irritates me so badly more than anything, and in all honesty it's part of why I didn't like Generations as much as others may have, because the concept itself just gave me the impression we were going for a full-on hard splitting of the fandom and I could see it from miles and miles away. Does that make marketing and critical success easier for them? Probably, maybe yeah. But does that also cut out a large wad of whatever integrity was left in favor of the dumb way out? In my opinion, it kinda does!

Now discussion is just like a game of politics; where we either side with one or the other as the objective superior, or people get ultra pedantic and start cutting it down to "oh so what about Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood Sonic?? I want to see him in this game".

Eugh. Until Project 2017 actually shows itself, my interest is kaput. Call me when it appears and I'll probably feel better.. or not, I dunno.

[Diogenes]

Not to defend them for formalizing the divide, but I'm not sure if there even was a good option to get out of the pit they dug themselves. The divide existed long before Gens, and it was never something that was going to heal easily. Pick one side and risk losing the other (hello, years of abandonment of classic elements). Try to combine them and end up with an incoherent product being pulled in two different directions (hello, modern Sonic with classic trappings). Try to pick a third option and invent something new, and risk losing everything (hello, Boom). There's plenty of good arguments why trying to maintain two Sonics is a bad idea, but the alternatives don't seem much better.

[azoo]

It seems like a cop-out to consider that blending the two's elements in some way, shape or form is bound for disaster.

The only thing preventing them from doing it right is that they put their focus on all the wrong things. Rather than trying for their gameplay/level design ideas or borrowing aesthetic decisions proper, they decide that just doing whatever the hell they feel like while applying random nostalgia callbacks and superficial changes (minimalistic stories, Sonic only, mostly 2D sections, a checkerboard or two, Spin Dash only returning thru aesthetics and nothing else) is their ultimate breadwinner.

I don't know. I guess I and some people on here's thoughts aren't the majority thought on Sonic. Maybe there is a huge, stark difference between the eras and are obviously completely different series' that need to remain strictly separate from now on (unless made clear it's a convergence of the two, like Gens or Project 2017), and people would far prefer it that way; me and a few in the minority being an exception because I grew up in an (admittedly brief) time where they kinda blended together without much issue. I'm not sure anymore. 

I'm just rambling at this point. Remember kids: when life hands you lemons, make beef stew?

[Wraith]

I see what you're saying, but I don't see the point in longing so much for it. I can either enjoy what they have going on here or continue longing for the Sonic that's not going to happen forever, and I feel like a lot of Sonic fans feel that way at this point.I don't really want to become one of those people.  What they're doing is making them money and most of the fans still buy into it, so they don't see much of a point in changing it up. They've actually seemed to GAIN from this in the long run. They could straighten things out but it would be a lot more work compared to staying the course and reeking in the cash. 

[azoo]

Right.

Which is why I've practically all but resigned from being the fan of it I used to be lol. This isn't the Sonic I grew to love, because the Sonic I grew to love was built on games from a combination of eras in a single somehow-cohesive-but-always-changing series with flowy gameplay, rad aesthetics and cool narratives, and it's best games kept that togetherness at it's heart rather than picking it all apart and separating into contained areas.

And while I'm not alone for being nudged perfectly between two fences like that (I did get into Sonic 1/2/3K/CD at the same time as 3DB/R at the same time as SA1/SA2/Adv1&2.. just kinda all from 2000-2002, like many other kids probably did), but just because I'm not alone doesn't mean they're going to cater to keep that cohesion that brought me here, because they have bigger and greater priorities. Which may ultimately lead to better games and greener pastures (hello, Mania).

So I feel like it's almost as if I have to force myself to part ways with the thought, and thus the amount of care I've had for the series before lol. It blows ass, but it genuinely feels like that despite whatever good is coming from it, the Sonic I got into just.. ain't. 

Hope I'm not feeling this way by the end of the year, lol, but if I am then okay. I guess it is what it is.

[shadowfan94]

So, um....2D Sonic again....ok.

Before I say anything further, I would like to establish that I'm a pretty big Sonic fan, more so to the gamecube era games and a few others like Sonic Battle and All Stars Racing. I am NOT a fanboy, at least not a crazy one that loses their shit.

But yeah, really not feeling this multi-dimension 2D characters stuff. Wish that didn't come back. I'm still waiting on the next game where you can play as Shadow, Knuckles, Tails, Amy, etc. It doesn't have to be Adventure 3, but I'm one of those Sonic fans that actually DOES want to do something besides run fast(they can't make a whole 8-hour game out of that), and would like to see the side characters be playable and have a story and be done right. SEGA had the right idea with 06, but it was rushed and virtually unplayable. It wasn't the IDEA, but the execution. 

I also really miss team Chaotix. Heroes was the only big game where you could play as them a lot, but you can't have them without having about 30 other playable characters, which means the game would pretty much have to be Sonic Heroes 2 to manage all of that.

I wish I could say I'm excited for this game or looking forward to it. We'll see. If it plays well, it might work. 

[Cyalume]

5 hours ago, Azoo said:

Personally, I'm just tired of the fact that Sega's all but accepted that (besides winking and nudging at dedicated fans about them being one and the same), classic and modern Sonic are now all but completely different characters, and Sega themselves actively wants you to see them that way. And boy, if the current Sonic community's most frequent discussions haven't convinced you that it worked, I don't know what will.

That's what irritates me so badly more than anything, and in all honesty it's part of why I didn't like Generations as much as others may have, because the concept itself just gave me the impression we were going for a full-on hard splitting of the fandom and I could see it from miles and miles away. Does that make marketing and critical success easier for them? Probably, maybe yeah. But does that also cut out a large wad of whatever integrity was left in favor of the dumb way out? In my opinion, it kinda does!

Now discussion is just like a game of politics; where we either side with one or the other as the objective superior, or people get ultra pedantic and start cutting it down to "oh so what about Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood Sonic?? I want to see him in this game".

Eugh. Until Project 2017 actually shows itself, my interest is kaput. Call me when it appears and I'll probably feel better.. or not, I dunno.

I have little to contribute to this discussion beyond what has already been said multiple times over: It looks like Generations 2, I can't see why Classic Sonic is in it, etc. I'm waiting until we get more information beyond the initial trailer to really make a judgement call on this one, but I'm definitely erring on the side of caution and keeping my overall expectations low this time around. Having it on the Switch may be enough to make me consider purchasing it on that platform so that I can play it on the go as opposed to my PC. As for the whole splitting of the fandom bit; in my personal opinion, I'm glad, at least, that they're building upon CS as its own thing outside of Sonic 4 and merch now. I could be wrong, though; I've been out of the loop for a minute now.

(Actually, the real reason I'm posting is because I saw Milk Chan. You have good tastes.)

[JingleBoy]

9 hours ago, Azoo said:

Personally, I'm just tired of the fact that Sega's all but accepted that classic and modern Sonic are now all but completely different characters, and Sega themselves actively wants you to see them that way. And boy, if the current Sonic community's most frequent discussions haven't convinced you that it worked, I don't know what will.

This is so true and it sucks so much. I've seen people talk about Mania and refer to Sonic as "Classic Sonic" instead of just "Sonic". We'll just have to see if Project 2017 does anything to actually fix this, though I doubt it will.

[Zippo]

While I'm not too bothered about the Sonics being treated like different characters, like many others, I'm still very cautious about this one, and given how many times Sonic Team has messed up, I think I've earned the right to be. As cool as it looked, I just can't get excited over a CGI trailer. My hype is reserved for games that are known quantities. (Mania, Breath of the Wild, Horizon, etc.) I know we won't be seeing anything from this game for at least another 3 or 4 months, but i have had the same questions rattling in my mind for months now.

Will there finally be multiple playable characters again? If so, how will they play?

Who is this new character? What role will they serve?

What will be the art style this time? Simliar to Unleashed and Generations or something more gritty? (I hope not.)

Will we finally have a 3D console Sonic game that can run in 60FPS/1080P?

What is this "Third gameplay component"?

[JingleBoy]

2 hours ago, Zippo said:

Will we finally have a 3D console Sonic game that can run in 60FPS/1080P?

I really hope so, it'll be very interesting to compare how the different versions of the game will play out. I honestly doubt Sonic Team will take advantage of PS4 Pro technology, doesn't seem like a lucrative venture.

2 hours ago, Zippo said:

What will be the art style this time? Simliar to Unleashed and Generations or something more gritty? (I hope not.)

Well if the teaser is anything to go by, then I think we'll be seeing the return of the Unleashed/Generations style - which is fine by me. I don't think SEGA would be so stupid as to have a gritty and somewhat photo-realistic aesthetic like Adventure 2, Shadow and '06 all tried and failed at. This article where Iizuka states that Sonic will never look realistic ever again is a godsend. 

All of that being said though, after seeing how Nintendo have finally given Mario proper looking hair and skin in Mario Odyssey, I can't help but wonder what Sonic Team's take on Sonic with fur would be like (and no, the Werehog doesn't count). I'm sure somewhere deep in Sonic Team there are unreleased prototypes of a Sonic model with fur and I think it could look cool if done right. I always thought Sonic had a weird naked mole-rat type look to him without fur - especially when the world around him is getting more detailed. They'd have to be very careful with how they handle it, of course. 

                                                                                      

I think the way his fur was painted in this illustration by Mauricio Abril looks really nice - so maybe something like that?

What do you think? Yes to fur, or do you think it would just look stupid?

[CleverSonicUsername]

57 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

I'm sure somewhere deep in Sonic Team there are unreleased prototypes of a Sonic model with fur and I think it could look cool if done right.

[JingleBoy]

2 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

The true villain of Project 2017 revealed at last.

[Zippo]

1 hour ago, JingleBoy said:

I really hope so, it'll be very interesting to compare how the different versions of the game will play out. I honestly doubt Sonic Team will take advantage of PS4 Pro technology, doesn't seem like a lucrative venture.

Well if the teaser is anything to go by, then I think we'll be seeing the return of the Unleashed/Generations style - which is fine by me. I don't think SEGA would be so stupid as to have a gritty and somewhat photo-realistic aesthetic like Adventure 2, Shadow and '06 all tried and failed at. This article where Iizuka states that Sonic will never look realistic ever again is a godsend. 

All of that being said though, after seeing how Nintendo have finally given Mario proper looking hair and skin in Mario Odyssey, I can't help but wonder what Sonic Team's take on Sonic with fur would be like (and no, the Werehog doesn't count). I'm sure somewhere deep in Sonic Team there are unreleased prototypes of a Sonic model with fur and I think it could look cool if done right. I always thought Sonic had a weird naked mole-rat type look to him without fur - especially when the world around him is getting more detailed. They'd have to be very careful with how they handle it, of course. 

                                                                                      

I think the way his fur was painted in this illustration by Mauricio Abril looks really nice - so maybe something like that?

What do you think? Yes to fur, or do you think it would just look stupid?

I sure hope it's 60 FPS, Lost World sucked but even it looked smooth.

Thank goodness. I never want Sonic in a photo realistic environment. It just does not work. They've done the fur texture before, slightly in the CGU for Unleashed, iirc.

Given how the live action movie is coming, and they've said the characters are being slighty redesgined, I guess I can live with something like that.

Unless it's like

Then it's a straight up pass entirely.

[Blacklightning]

I'm a little hesitant on fluffy fur textures because I feel like it goes against his whole design - Sonic was basically originally touted as a living buzzsaw whenever he broke into a roll or a spin, and stuff like the above pictures doesn't look sharp. It looks soft and fluffy, and to be honest I think it looks ridiculous. And I know that doesn't explain how Tails can get away with rolling or spindashing, but I would still rather at least Sonic still have this going for him. The subtle grooves on his blue parts for most post-Unleashed renders are more than enough for me if we have to go into that kind of detail, but I also think there's absolutely nothing wrong with a cartoon-proportioned hedgehog being essentially a flat texture, either.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

... Is it my imagination...

Of was that image also one of the Sonic Boom concept art designs? 

No really I'm sure they had a design which looked a lot like that.