Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[HywelAtTheMoon]

If I remember correctly, Eggman (or Robotnik as he was then) held Tails to ransom in the GG/MS Sonic 2. I believe the manual said "If you want to see him alive again, bring the chaos emeralds to the Crystal Egg Zone!" 

 

It's implied that Tails dies if you fail to get them all. Watch the end credits. Probably the darkest ending in the franchise. 

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

If I remember correctly, Eggman (or Robotnik as he was then) held Tails to ransom in the GG/MS Sonic 2. I believe the manual said "If you want to see him alive again, bring the chaos emeralds to the Crystal Egg Zone!" 

 

It's implied that Tails dies if you fail to get them all. Watch the end credits. Probably the darkest ending in the franchise. 

Is this just all gonna be a laundry list of "look, the Classics did this dark thing"? 

Again, that's a consequence for the bad ending. I'm talking about my first impression of Project 2017. 

[BubbleButt TV]

Okay ignore the 25th Anniversary Sonic banner and pretend you didn't watch the trailer. At first glance, what game franchise do you think this would be an advert for? I bet it would take a while until you got to Sonic the Hedgehog. Considering this franchise's history of overly edgy games, I'd say people have very good reason to be anxious about the tone of this game. Personally, I don't think Sonic Team would be so stupid as to take it back to '06/Shadow/SA2 levels of try-hard edge, especially considering Iizuka's comments about not wanting Sonic to be photorealistic ever again. 

[Your Vest Friend]

The darkest ending would be Metal Sonic Kai burning everywhere to the ground in Chaotix, but that's a bad ending too.

Technically, the darkest ending that was the proper ending was Eggman conquering the world when Sonic and co return from the Twilight Cage in Sonic Chronicles, but that was just a stupid cliffhanger that never got resolved because it was shit. 

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Oh, come on! You guys really think that this game will be doom and gloom, just because of the teaser? Now the teaser from Sonic Unleashed was a white background, does that mean the whole game is going to be in a white background?

Man, don't be dense. No one is saying every stage is going to be a burning, ruined city, but when that and that alone is what you lead with, that is sending a message. And we all know what the message is, we all recognize that this is an attempt to make the series feel darker, more serious, more "epic". And some people don't like that. Quit acting like people are crazy for pointing out what we all know to be true just because you disagree with their opinion regarding it.

Also Generations did in a sense take place almost entirely in the white void, so.

1 hour ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

And sure, Sonic Lost World is an amaaazing game with the best style for stages. Don't we all love those Minecraft trees, cardboard bushes and flying donut land? Not even Kirby fits.

Far more than this dark, "serious" wankery, yeah. But regardless there are styles that fall between the two, you know?

[Meta77]

I want to meet the teens or kids that started using the word edge as some sort of term for anytime someone tries to make something dark.

Sega has had plenty of dark moments in the series. It was during the heroes arc upward *though it took a break* and than reared its ugly head in colors , generations about the real super power of teamwork!

The game can be dark and still be good without "edge" or sucking. Sometimes its nice to change things up when you work on them and not rush them out the door to hit a holiday release. Sure if you like seeing cheerful bright colors, cringe worthy jokes, 4th wall humor, that is fine but every now and again some things can be good when darker elements are tossed in. Such as say samurai jacks comeback

[Ratcicle King]

To be fair, it's not like Sonic Team can only work in extremes, they can keep a game lighthearted while still giving it an epic and dark atmosphere, Unleashed for the most part was Lighthearted, and the ending was still pretty damn epic, Lost World for the most part was cringy levels of lighthearted, yet by the end of the game basically the entire cast but Sonic was pretty much dead and the Earth was slowly being stripped of it's life.

I mean if one would want to over analyze it, the trailer has a city that looks like it uses City Escape Generations assets, all buildings while still having a lot of detail, have a cartoony feel to them, not completely reallistic. And the robots are still round, egg shaped and colorful. There's a bigger intensity to the atmosphere, yes, but everything is still there, if anything, the teaser is showing they'll try to give a damn to the plot this time.

[Tracker_TD]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I want to meet the teens or kids that started using the word edge as some sort of term for anytime someone tries to make something dark.

Sega has had plenty of dark moments in the series. It was during the heroes arc upward *though it took a break* and than reared its ugly head in colors , generations about the real super power of teamwork!

The game can be dark and still be good without "edge" or sucking. Sometimes its nice to change things up when you work on them and not rush them out the door to hit a holiday release. Sure if you like seeing cheerful bright colors, cringe worthy jokes, 4th wall humor, that is fine but every now and again some things can be good when darker elements are tossed in. Such as say samurai jacks comeback

The game you used as an example of dark stuff being "good" is widely considered as one of the worst Sonic games ever made, in considerable due to it having an utterly laughable narrative.

Yeah uh, I'll take those "cringeworthy jokes" over Shadow's dross any day, sure thing. Especially given Colours and Generations, the games you listed as examples of those, kick the shit out Shadow and the like; and that's bearing in mind I don't even like Colours! 

[Badnik Mechanic]

2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Most are happy. You just got a few who think sonic should stay in a bright sunny rainbow and bunnies land

Why do people do this? 

If someone brings up the Sonic not being uber serious stance, there's always someone who posts something like this? That is not what people who are against this are saying, they're saying that Sonic isn't this kind of super serious, destroy everything flames and fire with all the cities destroyed in total devastation like some kind of desperate attempt to grasp onto a more popular franchise like Call of Duty or Battlefield*

They're saying that Sonic for the vast majority of his games and what people identify him primarily with should be set in a bright colourful environment that kind of environment and the threat is something attempting to disrupt that in some way.

A disruption of that narrative doesn't have to end up being the videogame equivalent of the Daleks attacking the earth yelling "Exterminate" which is the impression we have with this and with every game Sega has tried which has gone down the 'Darkness' road.

*Which is what Shadow the Hedgehog was designed to appeal to.

2 hours ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Oh, come on! You guys really think that this game will be doom and gloom, just because of the teaser?

I think people are thinking of that because when it comes to Sonic and the notion of 'lets destroy everything/darkness'. Sega is not very good at it and Sonic Team has been outright awful at it, do we need to cite the examples?

With this trailer, we've been told to 'join the resistance' which to me suggests that what we see in the teaser is not the end of the game, but the start... If that is the case, I can list a ton of problems with that from a narrative alone, especially from a Sonic game.

Now before someone quotes this and accuses me of being only interested in Classic games or some kind of nostalgiaholic, I've yet to really post my thoughts on this game other than what I said in the first page or 2nd page of this topic.

 

But I cannot deny the big issue which this game, at least in terms of it's advertising....

This is what we have so far in terms of the main imagery you get from this game.

And now this...

First thing I think of is.... 'that's a very creative use of brown....' That's what I think of when I think of Sonic 2017...

Meanwhile, in every other bit of Sonic media and in the mindset of anyone who has even the most basic understanding of what Sonic is... typically images like this come to mind...

Great use of brown.... and green, and yellow, and blue, and white... 

In fact, look at any official media, or assets which have come out, there is nothing like Sonic 2017, it's all what most people associate Sonic with, bright and colourful. 

How about the 2016 Style Guides... Anyone spot anything like Sonic 2017? No... yeah that's because it doesn't exist.

 

So why is Sonic 2017 going in that direction when past form shows they're not good at doing that, and it almost always gets laughed at before release? Yet the bright environments is the exact opposite?

 

 

Quote

 

*trailer for Shadows game*

The game can be dark and still be good without "edge" or sucking. 

 

This is piss take comment right?

He cock's a machine gun as if it's a shotgun before you even play level 1 and nearly every single audio SFX file for a menu selection is a gunshot!

[JosepHenry]

Well, March 16 isn't too far away, so it won't take long until we see some details.

 

Also, sorry if wasn't clear, but I wasn't being dense or even serious about this topic. I was joking about Lost World. And I was joking about the Unleashed white background example. Just trying to have a lighthearted conversation here. Just like this game will turn out to be!

I don't think people are crazy for not liking what I do. I'm just happy with how the tone of this game will be. And no, is not going to be like ShadowTH or Sonic '06.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sega has had plenty of dark moments in the series.

And how often have they actually worked? And I mean for more than just the hardcore fanbase actively clamoring for more of it.

[Detective Kaito]

I'm okay with the new tone the game is taking. I wanted it for a long time, it worked well for Sonic Unleashed and Black Knight so I see no reason why it can't work here. If Mickey Mouse can be in a game like Kingdom Hearts, a game with a serious tone (most of the time), then I don't see why Sonic wouldn't be allowed to do the same.

I say that, but I'm not expecting much of the story if somehow Pontac and Graff are writing it.

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

I'm okay with the new tone the game is taking. I wanted it for a long time, it worked well for Sonic Unleashed and Black Knight so I see no reason why it can't work here. If Mickey Mouse can be in a game like Kingdom Hearts, a game with a serious tone (most of the time), then I don't see why Sonic wouldn't be allowed to do the same.

I say that, but I'm not expecting much of the story if somehow Pontac and Graff are writing it.

If it's like Unleashed's tone, sure, fine. That game's tone was perfect.

Right now, this looks more like 06's end of the scale. Which isn't the best image to draw up with marketing. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

And how often have they actually worked? And I mean for more than just the hardcore fanbase actively clamoring for more of it.

Better question.

Outside of a licensed game, like Alien Isolation, How many games have Sega made, in which this has actually worked?

I can only think of maybe one small part of every Yakuza game since Yakuza 3, and... maybe a quarter of Binary Domain (made by the same studio I think), and even then the majority of it is no way near the level of dark serious stuff that even the worst Sonic games have gone for.

Even House of the Dead Overkill didn't try it.

 

[Milo]

4 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Well, March 16 isn't too far away, so it won't take long until we see some details.

OK I guess it's because of the current discussion direction but I read "details" in your posts as "deaths" and I had to do a double take.

For a minute I thought you were saying the game would actually be revealed with characters being killed off or something lmao.

[FriendBot]

Spoiler warning: Tails dies in Project 2017

[Polkadi~☆]

Just now, Soni said:

Spoiler warning: Tails dies in Project 2017

No, duh, he always dies.

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

5 minutes ago, Soni said:

Spoiler warning: Tails dies in Project 2017

 

4 minutes ago, Soldier: 76 said:

No, duh, he always dies.

Those days are over. Tails is the final boss.

[Cakito]

6 minutes ago, Soldier: 76 said:

No, duh, he always dies.

 

Someone calls Elise please

[FriendBot]

If Tails is actually the villain of Project 2017, then this is gonna be the best Sonic game ever made!

[Ratcicle King]

Just now, Mayor D said:

 

Those days are over. Tails is the final boss.

Implying we won't just get a cutscene with the perfect setup for a Tails boss battle that ends up solving said setup almost instantly just like Colors and Lost World.

[Polkadi~☆]

Just now, Ratcicle King said:

Implying we won't just get a cutscene with the perfect setup for a Tails boss battle that ends up solving said setup almost instantly just like Colors and Lost World.

"Whoa, I'm gonna fight Tails, so cool! Oh, no I don't."

"Whoa, I'm gonna fight MECHA TAILS!! Oh, turns out his whole capture was pointless. I don't fight him."

"Whoa, I'm gonna fight Tails' FINAL FORM!! Oh, he doesn't have a final form, and I still will never fight him."

[Forte-Metallix]

On the subject of tone, I have to agree with @Tracker_TD that Unleashed had the ideal one for a Sonic game: It starts out light-hearted, with a lot of humor and character interaction, and it gradually gets more serious as more plot elements are revealed, climaxing with a final boss with end-of-the-world stakes- but even toward the end of the game, there are still plenty of jokes and breather moments throughout.

That's what I want in a Sonic story- a strong blend of action and humor, high stakes but not too much grit or drama, and maybe an occasional nod to a past installment or something. An overly serious or convoluted story can bomb hard, as with Shadow and '06, but Generations and Lost World show that you can also go too far in the opposite direction by not giving players enough substance or telling nothing but terrible jokes.

[Meta77]

25 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

The game you used as an example of dark stuff being "good" is widely considered as one of the worst Sonic games ever made, in considerable due to it having an utterly laughable narrative.

Yeah uh, I'll take those "cringeworthy jokes" over Shadow's dross any day, sure thing. Especially given Colours and Generations, the games you listed as examples of those, kick the shit out Shadow and the like; and that's bearing in mind I don't even like Colours! 

Widely considered by who? Die heart stateside fans. Was not the reason the game made because those in japan wanted to see sonic with a gun or use them and they used shadow to keep sonic "pure" so to say? That being said were not elements cut and events dropped to fit the e10 rating when originally they were pushing for a higher teen rating. Light things are ok to an extent. But after some time some fans want the series they followed since the start of the 90s to go mature but do it well and work it on the same they are doing mania. Rushing leads to things like 06 and shoving it out early was a mistake.

Give me a villian intent on killing sonic and everyone on the planet if they do not submit to them. Do not give me wonky villians with no ill intent who just want to do some oh i just want to be the typical....actually no...don't be a fucking time eater. Lord the build up for that boss was painful. Just painful.

[Badnik Mechanic]

9 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Widely considered by who?

This is not a serious question is it?

Quote

Was not the reason the game made because those in japan wanted to see sonic with a gun or use them and they used shadow to keep sonic "pure" so to say? 

No the reason is was made was because they wanted to attract what Sonic Team believed was an older audience who was into Call of Duty/Battlefield/First Person Shooter audience in which Iizuka went on record to state would hope they would then find interest in the main Sonic series.

You want a source for that one, 1Up's link via wikipedia before it died had the interview.

Otherwise ask anyone here with a long memory.

Edit: Here is a less reliable one with the actual quote: https://www.vgfacts.com/game/shadowthehedgehog/

Quote

Give me a villian intent on killing sonic and everyone on the planet if they do not submit to them. Do not give me wonky villians with no ill intent who just want to do some oh i just want to be the typical....actually no...don't be a fucking time eater. Lord the build up for that boss was painful. Just painful.

Just how does anyone get into this series with this mindset?