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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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I've just been skimming over the past few pages in this thread and... Shall we all agree on this?

Sonic the Hedgehog is a franchise defined by its quirky nature, yet its ability to take itself seriously. It's a series that thrives on a balance of lighthearted fun, and spurts of maturity combined. It's one that knows when it's time to be more serious for older gamers, and it knows when it's time to take a break and appeal to youthful audiences with more toned down entries, all in an effort to keep older audiences intrigued with occasional titles like SA/SA2 and Unleashed, while at the same time giving the young something colorful when needed as well via Heroes, Colors and Lost World, something that will appeal to youth and then excite them and wow said youth when the maturity returns as the prime focus.

It's a franchise that ages and vice versa at random when need be. A scale that's constantly tilting with random moments of balancing out.

Color and fun is fine for the Sonic franchise, comedy is fine with proper writing and balance, and maturity, darkness, "edge" as some call it, is also a necessity for the Sonic franchise, because without the later, just go play Mario, and without the former, just go play Bayonetta, otherwise the franchise can come off as an off-brand of sorts of other franchises that caters to those specific directions constantly, as its prime focus, to an often much better degree.

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Well, no, I don't agree on that. It ascribes intention to what is more often flailing incompetence. It perpetuates the mistaken belief that the lighter games are for younger fans and darker games are for older fans. And it tries to spin the series' lack of coherent identity as an identity in itself.

....I will admit this, I have NO idea what the flying squirrel you just said...

...It sounds smart, so call me stupid I guess.

I will say after reading the past few pages, I think my post makes pretty excellent sense and appeals to both sides.

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48 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

....I will admit this, I have NO idea what the flying squirrel you just said...

...It sounds smart, so call me stupid I guess.

I will say after reading the past few pages, I think my post makes pretty excellent sense and appeals to both sides.

Basically, things shouldn't be divided into lighter games for younger fans and darker games for older fans, and treating it that way just increases division and the lack of identity this franchise seems to have and causes problems. I get what you were trying to say, but Sonic is a franchise for all ages and the kind of games produced from this franchise shouldn't be restricted to one age group. More like Disney, it should be fun and thrilling for everyone regardless of the direction.

Unfortunately, that's not entirely how things are currently marketed.

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1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Basically, things shouldn't be divided into lighter games for younger fans and darker games for older fans, and treating it that way just increases division and the lack of identity this franchise seems to have and causes problems. I get what you were trying to say, but Sonic is a franchise for all ages and the kind of games produced from this franchise shouldn't be restricted to one age group. More like Disney, it should be fun and thrilling for everyone regardless of the direction.

Unfortunately, that's not entirely how things are currently marketed.

Being honest, based on P17 and Mania thus far I'd say from a personal standpoint we're finally back where the franchise is SUPPOSED to be instead of hot on the heels of Mario for a change...

But uh... Just some side venting there. Point is, this is the Sonic that I remembered from the 90's to mid 00's and this is the Sonic we should've always had, basically. Again, personal stance here.

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Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest, based on P17 and Mania thus far I'd say from a personal standpoint we're finally back where the franchise is SUPPOSED to be instead of hot on the heels of Mario for a change...

That was just one game...

A game that ironically didn't fare so well in reception and hardly played like a Mario game.

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5 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That was just one game...

A game that ironically didn't fare so well in reception and hardly played like a Mario game.

Didn't the team emphasize their intent was to attract Mario fans with Lost World though...?

...Dunno if it was Iizuka himself but I know they did.

Hence the grass, desert, ice, lava kind of progression, Deadly Koopalings, rolling derpy faced fruit, Sunshine-esque soundtracks, dessert based food stage...

...Back on the topic of P17, thinking we're getting a name reveal for the game and art of the new character instead of actual game play now.

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I'll be shocked if we don't see some gameplay from P17 this week. Generations gameplay debuted in mid-April 2011 and that was only like two weeks after the first teaser for it.

They teased this game last July. If we don't see gameplay until E3, I'll be surprised. 

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I'd be surprised if they stole any thunder from Mania. If they have something from that game to show at the event (like a new stage) then I'd be pumping my brakes pretty hard on the 2017 front.

Like really slamming on them good. Like some details-by-word-of-mouth-and-very-little-tangible-to-show kind of hitting of the brakes.

 

I'd be stoked if they did have something for us to chew on about 2017, but with the gap between it and mania so large (more than half a year) that Sonic Team will have plenty of time to tout their game later on. They really don't gain much by stepping on Mania's toes.

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We should be getting a bit of game play at this time, since this is coming in the holidays this year, unless they delayed it...

I'm down for a serious story and all, as long as it's done properly, somewhat like the direction in Unleashed. And I will admit, Classic Sonic appearing in this game reduced my excitement for it. Hopefully there will be some other good things to come from this game...

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I had not realized that this year/November is a 25 year anniversary specifically of  Sonic 2.  I'm not certain how this entry would relate to that but yet it is entirely possible.  It will be clearer on Thursday!

For example while it is very unlikely, this short few days before something more is revealed feels like an okay time period to speculate

 

that: it is not impossible that this entry in the series could be something like FFVII Remake. 

Perhaps West Side Island is accessible as a progressively open hub world, navigated by modern Sonic with classic Sonic following him, or perhaps multiple characters, that would contain entrypoints to zones that would either be played in the modern or classic style.  :unsure::unsure: 

This would be a weird concept; but it would also make it a more exciting and unique remake to somehow have found an excuse to include modern Sonic gameplay and many new zones for a hopefully fine tuned classic Sonic.  Sonic 2's zones in particular have actually so much potential to be expanded upon, though not to everyones' tastes per se. I guess it would be some type of alternate timeline where Sonic and Miles alone cannot triumph without intervention from that timeline's future. 

 

 

 

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I'd be stoked if they did have something for us to chew on about 2017, but with the gap between it and mania so large (more than half a year) that Sonic Team will have plenty of time to tout their game later on. They really don't gain much by stepping on Mania's toes.

I dunno. I wouldn't say that'd be "stepping on Mania's toes" any moreso than revealing the game at the same event as Mania didn't last year.

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Yeah, I don't think giving us some new info on this game would effect Mania in any way, shape, or form. If the games were coming out at the same time, sure, but it's actually because of that gap between them that I don't think that's something they have to worry about at all.

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Well they did revealed Project 17 at the same time as Mania last year at the 25th anniversary shitfest party And that didn't seem to affect Mania from what I know of, so I don't know why showing more of Project 17 at the panel would?

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I dunno...

I have a feeling it's going to be MANIA that overshadows Project 2017 funnily enough.

It'd be hilarious to see the confusion on Mr. Iizuka's face if his game gets crickets and Whitehead's game gets universal applaud. XD

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Isn't Mania already overshadowing this Project '17 game? By way of there being actual details released about Mania, and there being no info about this game.

 

So it wouldn't be surprising if it stays that way...

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3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Isn't Mania already overshadowing this Project '17 game? By way of there being actual details released about Mania, and there being no info about this game.

 

So it wouldn't be surprising if it stays that way...

I think it depends on how generic primarily Classic Sonic appears in Project 2017 that determines a lot. If the quality is off compared to Mania and it's just a mere Generations 2.0 then I don't see many people getting too hyped. Granted the potential plot of the game and tone/locations may be interesting but still, it's going to be interesting to see how things play out as Mania and P17 butt heads during the next few months.

Sonic Team now has the Whitehead standard to live up to. They fail at that, bye bye sales.

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8 hours ago, BlueBlur91 said:

Well they did revealed Project 17 at the same time as Mania last year at the 25th anniversary shitfest party And that didn't seem to affect Mania from what I know of, so I don't know why showing more of Project 17 at the panel would?

0a60bc6df8e06a2bc0cf90d45b7fb5ee.thumb.jpg.e7764d21ab9bf4b79b16831b11ed753b.jpg

 

The game was announced 9 months ago. They've shown us a CG trailer, given us some gameplay tidbits, told us what consoles it's realeasing on, and when it's coming out. I think it's very likely a gameplay trailer of some sort is coming. Nothing too major, but a minute of gameplay is more likely than not. The title of the game will definitely be revealed tomorrow, if I had to bet.

7 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I think it depends on how generic primarily Classic Sonic appears in Project 2017 that determines a lot. If the quality is off compared to Mania and it's just a mere Generations 2.0 then I don't see many people getting too hyped. Granted the potential plot of the game and tone/locations may be interesting but still, it's going to be interesting to see how things play out as Mania and P17 butt heads during the next few months.

Sonic Team now has the Whitehead standard to live up to. They fail at that, bye bye sales.

Been saying this for months, Sonic Team has nothing but an uphill battle coming their way this year. The Mania Team, by all accounts, has not only made a pixel perfect replication of the classic Sonic formula, but has fundamentally improved upon it. I just don't see Sonic Team spending the massive amount of time getting Classic Sonic's physics to that level, especially when they have two other gameplay components to polish. If one single thing is off when we first see classic gameplay, many people are going to rip the game apart, no question. Sonic Team already don't have the best reputation as it is.

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Whew

I keep remembering that we're getting some sort of PR2017 news day after tomorrow and my stomach jumps (it does that when I'm excited, like butterflies but brief).

CAN'T WAIT YALL

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51 minutes ago, Zippo said:

The game was announced 9 months ago. They've shown us a CG trailer, given us some gameplay tidbits, told us what consoles it's realeasing on, and when it's coming out. I think it's very likely a gameplay trailer of some sort is coming. Nothing too major, but a minute of gameplay is more likely than not. The title of the game will definitely be revealed tomorrow, if I had to bet.

Been saying this for months, Sonic Team has nothing but an uphill battle coming their way this year. The Mania Team, by all accounts, has not only made a pixel perfect replication of the classic Sonic formula, but has fundamentally improved upon it. I just don't see Sonic Team spending the massive amount of time getting Classic Sonic's physics to that level, especially when they have two other gameplay components to polish. If one single thing is off when we first see classic gameplay, many people are going to rip the game apart, no question. Sonic Team already don't have the best reputation as it is.

I think it's more of a morale issue, after so many years of rejection by and large from the communities, consumers, critics, etc, with what is arguably their greatest and most ambitious 3D title, Unleashed, thrown into the chaos of rejection as well, it's not hard to say they've literally no reason to give a few choice words I shouldn't say here about what they make anymore, and I feel Lost World proves this the most, being their peaking moment of "zero anything given anymore" basically.

Even the Generations title felt like the level of ambition was as lacking as the budget/time for it. 20 years to work with and nine worlds and arguably the worst final boss in the franchise?

When you compare Mania with stuff from Sonic Team over the course of recent years you can definitely tell the differences between the "new" staff and those that have been there for so long a turd sounds like a good idea for a game.

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Sonic Team, I'm beggin' ya, please make sure that Project 2017's just as amazing as Generations and even Mania in it's own way so people can have faith in 3D Sonic and the Sonic Team brand again. Didn't it feel so good back in 2010 and '11 when you put out THREE (five if you count the portable versions of Colors and Generations) titles in a row that got unusually high critical praise?? Remember when an entire crowd of fans screamed in joy like fucking fangirls at a boyband concert when this game's trailer established that your beloved characters are out of the hands of those who absolutely fucked them up and back to those who've done right by them? I bet Iizuka shed a manly tear at last year's party when the crowd went absolutely nuts the second his dev team's logo faded in during the trailer for this project, and I hope that gave him even more incentive to make sure that we don't have another blunder, whether it be something terrible like Secret Rings or an acquired taste deal like Lost World, but something that'll appeal to both fans and the general audience like the last two boost games did.

Spoiler

Sorry, I've been watching Sonic commercials from back in the good old days when this franchise was still respectable and wasn't the well-deserved butt of jokes or seen as the poster child of a dead horse series and I got just a tick emotional about it.

 

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16 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

I dunno...

I have a feeling it's going to be MANIA that overshadows Project 2017 funnily enough.

It'd be hilarious to see the confusion on Mr. Iizuka's face if his game gets crickets and Whitehead's game gets universal applaud. XD

Don't think Iizuka is so ignorant as to be unaware of the fact that a game which touts a return to 2D classic glory will be getting more attention and praise than a new 3D entry in a franchise with a notoriously poor reputation for 3D games. Pretty sure he understands that Sonic Team need to repair the franchise' reputation with respect to 3D platformers.

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I just hope it's better than generations.  lord that short game is over hyped as good. Time eater was the most boring final boss to date.  But I think Sega team knows how to do it

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As the following day approaches, remember this mantra for upcoming Sonic games (that aren't Mania):

Hope for the best, expect the worst.

In the words of Sonic himself, "It's the only way to live life without regrets".

Honestly until further notice, I'm just about convinced that Sonic Team is just going to resort to more meta pandering concepts (having a classic and modern Sonic or possibly throwing in a Boom Sonic (because who cares about integrity anymore, right?)), try to tell a serious story and fall flat on it's face, or include more than one gameplay style instead of honing into and making the best of one.

That's not to say I don't believe they could return to making great games (I hope they could and tbh I can see it in what Unleashed, Colors and Gens brought to the table), but from my experience it's best to not expect it. Let me tell ya, I'm hoping they pull through. However that would work, idk, but we'll see it when we get there.

Can't say I'm not anxious to get it over with though. It's been... yeesh, four years.

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Call me cynical, but I've kinda accepted that Sonic's not going to be a big thing ever again. 

Doesn't have to mean this game will suck though. Keep holding out until they downsize you further and they start making you churn out mobile and download games, Sonic Team. 

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