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Badnik Mechanic

Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

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Just now, Hyp3hat said:

I thought the 'Two Sonic Teams' thing had been debunked? The main source for that (Wentos) revealed that they'd just been making stuff up.

FTCR still brings up the two teams all the time. I'm going to blame them for the time being.

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8 minutes ago, Komaru Naegi said:

Who worked on Sonic Lost World then? Their C team? I've been told Sonic Colours was their B team where as games like Unleashed and Generations were the main team. Sonic 2017 is a combination of both main and B team?

Morio Kishimoto did. He was the lead designer and director of Sonic Colours.

...He was also the lead designer for Black Knight and Secret Rings, though.

It doesn't list him as the lead designer for Lost World, but he is still the director of the game. The credits sequence probably has the lead designer's name somewhere.

Edit: Ah, found a page that kind of gives an idea, but it seems all the levels were designed by individuals separately.

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3 minutes ago, Komaru Naegi said:

Who worked on Sonic Lost World then? Their C team? I've been told Sonic Colours was their B team where as games like Unleashed and Generations were the main team. Sonic 2017 is a combination of both main and B team?

You were told wrong, it had us all going for a while. There's only one Sonic Team, and whilst the team gets split up occasionally (Secret Rings and presumably Black Knight were offshoots from the main team), that's only temporary. As far as we know, the same Sonic Team has worked on everything since 2008. 

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3 minutes ago, BenderMania said:

Question for you:

Project 2017 has been given a release date of holiday 2017 which is about 17 months from now. It is of course not unusual for a game to be announced a few years prior to release, but it is unusual in terms of Sonic games, or at least I think it is. Aren't Sonic games normally announced 7 or 8 months prior to release? Could be wrong. I'm glad they announced it around the 25th anniversary, definitely a smart move, but it is surprising so far from release.

At the start of the trailer it says from the "team which brought you Sonic Colors & Gens". Now, we know Colors Team started working on SLW and then Generations team joined development of SLW when they were done with Gens. So that suggests prior to Project 2017's release it will have been in development for at least four years (SLW released in late 2013), which is a good development cycle for a game. I'm getting a vibe that this could be the biggest game at least in terms of scope/content since Unleashed. If the general consensus is; Colors, Gens & SLW being relatively small games then I think the new game may be the biggest-perhaps most epic yet.

I'm not expecting any gameplay footage this year, but you never know.

Come on SSMB:

#JoinTheResistance

I don't recall any recent Sonic games being revealed this early before release, but wasn't 06 revealed back in 2005, not long after the release of Shadow and Rush? That's the only other example I can think of. Maybe Unleashed, too?

Anyway, my thoughts of this reveal are slightly more on the side of curiosity than disappointment. Classic Sonic returning, despite also having a new game for him and his buddies, is something that I didn't anticipate. However, it kinda sucks that Modern Sonic is presumably stuck sharing the spotlight with himself again.

The tone of the trailer strikes me as trying to harken back to the Adventure/Unleashed games, but with Eggman as the primary villain. No ancient gods or evil beings from other worlds in sight. However...

Spoiler

I've seen a couple people speculate that perhaps Eggman Nega might have some kind of role. Considering that the not-Death Egg Robots seem to have a more black-and-yellow/silver colour scheme, I'm not gonna rule that option out entirely yet.

Overall, while it's obvious that we're gonna need more info to get a better idea of what to expect, I'm staying cautiously optimistic about this one.

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1 minute ago, Hyp3hat said:

You were told wrong, it had us all going for a while. There's only one Sonic Team, and whilst the team gets split up occasionally (Secret Rings and presumably Black Knight were offshoots from the main team), that's only temporary. As far as we know, the same Sonic Team has worked on everything since 2008. 

Well for one team they certainly do change things up a lot, probably in their board room meetings they go around the table asking who hasn't pitched an idea to use in a Sonic game. I could understand the constant gameplay shifts with different teams, they're certainly ambitious.

The other Sonic Team games like Phantasy Star Online, Burning Rangers and Billy Hatcher were obviously made by different mini teams though right? given they're before 1998 and not Sonic games.

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I had a post detailing my thoughts on this trailer all typed up, but something went wrong and I lost all of it, as always seems to happen when I've got a lot to say. I refuse to rewrite it, so I'm just going to sum up my thoughts like this:

The trailer looks cool, but it's got me a bit concerned about what kind of tone this game is going to take on. If the tone is like Unleashed (mostly lighthearted, but knowing when to get more serious), I'm fine with that, but I hope this game doesn't go full on Sonic '06 or anything like that. I definitely prefer the lighter and brighter stuff, with lots of humor, so I hope there's still plenty of that in the new game. If nothing else, the darker stuff will have much more of an impact that way.

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Just now, Komaru Naegi said:

Well for one team they certainly do change things up a lot, probably in their board room meetings they go around the table asking who hasn't pitched an idea to use in a Sonic game. I could understand the constant gameplay shifts with different teams, they're certainly ambitious.

The other Sonic Team games like Phantasy Star Online, Burning Rangers and Billy Hatcher were obviously made by different mini teams though right? given they're before 1998 and not Sonic games.

That's Iizuka, he seems perpetually restless. I'm actually amazed we had 3 boost games in a row, tbh. 

In the nineties and stuff I have no idea, all I know is that SEGA drastically reshuffled Sonic Team after the debacle of 06, fired many old hands and replaced them with new hires, some fresh out of college. They probably decided it was best to limit the amount of games with Sonic Team involvement - not only were Sonic Team making 06 and Secret Rings, before either of those were released they starting developing the NiGHTS sequel, which had a disastrous effect on all 3 games. The fact that Sonic games are no longer insane, buggy messes is probably to do with the fact that the dev team isn't working on multiple projects at once. 

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5 minutes ago, Hyper Enesephus said:

I had a post detailing my thoughts on this trailer all typed up, but something went wrong and I lost all of it, as always seems to happen when I've got a lot to say. I refuse to rewrite it, so I'm just going to sum up my thoughts like this:

The trailer looks cool, but it's got me a bit concerned about what kind of tone this game is going to take on. If the tone is like Unleashed (mostly lighthearted, but knowing when to get more serious), I'm fine with that, but I hope this game doesn't go full on Sonic '06 or anything like that. I definitely prefer the lighter and brighter stuff, with lots of humor, so I hope there's still plenty of that in the new game. If nothing else, the darker stuff will have much more of an impact that way.

And whats wrong with going darker in a story for once in awhile 06 being the last time things were really grim. Not every single sonic game needs to have the lighthearted kid feels through them. Sonic is a cheerful guy but its nice to see eggman or a villian push him to the brink of anger at what he has done to the world. Lighthearted is good but its also nice to get a break from all the sunshine and flat out sonic is just having a good time with no real worry till the very last boss.

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I guess I'll throw out my opinions on the game, as I didn't get a chance last night due to how tired I was after me and @The Deleter streamed for 10 hours straight, both this, and the events before the stream.

Anyway, first, I fucking love the style of the trailer. It finally represents something I've wanted for a while out of the Sonic series, a balance of tone. We've got a subtlety dark atmosphere, Sonic's visually pissed off at what's going down around the city, and everything just says "Yes, Sonic can have a serious plot. We finally realized this can happen". But then the way Classic Sonic jumps in and lightens up things a little with a few sparkles and a nice pose just shows me that while it's gonna be an interesting plot, we'll still have the characters we know and love and they won't be changing. It's a balance of tones and I'm happy it seems to be present. 

PS: GET IAN FLYNN WRITING THIS

But anyway, in regards to other things, I like how this portrays Eggman as an actual threat again. It's about fucking time, but they brought him back, and better than ever. He's destroyed presumably an entire world, he has a legion of Death Egg Robots at his fingertips and more. Eggman is on fire here, and this time, Sonic's gonna need to bring his A-Game to beat him from the looks of things.

As a Modern fan though, I honestly think it sucks hard having Classic piggyback again. Don't get me wrong, I like Classic Sonic (Well, the character, and S3&K) and I'm extremely excited for Mania, but come fucking on SEGA, he didn't need to piggyback onto a new Modern title, especially when he already has Mania. What annoys me more is this would have given something for every Sonic fan.

Modern - 2017 

Classic - Mania

Archie - Perhaps Freedom Fighter cameos in the new game? Not saying it's happening, as it's unlikely at best, but considering the redesigns they received to look more like Sonic characters, and the tagline about joining a resistance, it would make more sense to use the pre-existing characters known specifically for being a resistance. 

Boom - Season 2 

As for the Boost gameplay possibly coming back? I wouldn't mind as I enjoyed the Boost gameplay. Add in a risk vs reward system for the boost and I think it could actually work well as a gameplay mechanic for Sonic. On top of that, if this is an original story with a new set of levels, I'd love to see something more akin to Unleashed 2.

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3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

He's destroyed presumably an entire world

Minor quibble here, but remember that destroying the world isn't Eggman's motivation. He wants to conquer and rule it, not mindlessly destroy everything like many of the other Sonic villains have.

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Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

Minor quibble here, but remember that destroying the world isn't Eggman's motivation. He wants to conquer and rule it, not mindlessly destroy everything like many of the other Sonic villains have.

My theory is it's like Adventure, where he wanted to destroy so he could rebuild Eggmanland on the aches.

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Just now, Meta77 said:

And whats wrong with going darker in a story for once in awhile 06 being the last time things were really grim. Not every single sonic game needs to have the lighthearted kid feels through them. Sonic is a cheerful guy but its nice to see eggman or a villian push him to the brink of anger at what he has done to the world. Lighthearted is good but its also nice to get a break from all the sunshine and flat out sonic is just having a good time with no real worry till the very last boss.

Yeah, and it sucked (like, the tone of that game sucked, it didn't feel remotely Sonic-like at all). Like I said, Unleashed did a good job of making things fun and lighthearted throughout while still having an epic and serious finale that didn't feel like mood whiplash. If this game can strike a balance similar to that, then it could be fine. I'm not really saying the only time a Sonic game can be dark is at the end, but, at the same time, things shouldn't be "dark and serious" the whole way through, like 2006 tried too do. To me, that's just not what Sonic is, and "a break from all the sunshine" doesn't mean anything anyway if there isn't some of that sunshine in the game itself.

 

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Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

My theory is it's like Adventure, where he wanted to destroy so he could rebuild Eggmanland on the aches.

Granted, that was only one city. In SA2, Eggman was perfectly happy to adopt a "Surrender or else" policy to conquest, based on his ultimatum to the president.

It'd be cool to see a mix of both; The ruined city from the trailer is a neat backdrop, but I'd love to see someplace that just surrendered to Eggman's rule without having to be razed to the ground - and see the self-aggrandizing makeover Eggman gives the place once he's in charge.

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Minor quibble here, but remember that destroying the world isn't Eggman's motivation. He wants to conquer and rule it, not mindlessly destroy everything like many of the other Sonic villains have.

Eggman's also got a bit of an ego on him. It's not enough for him to just take control of the world, he needs to make it his. He's got his face plastered over everything he makes and I imagine using structures other people built wouldn't be satisfying for him. He won't destroy the world but he'd probably happily level it to rebuild it to his liking.

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Just a random, unlikely-to-happen idea I got in my head after thinking about how the giant robots are blatantly Death Egg-based:

Spoiler

What if Modern/Present Eggman returns to Little Planet (assuming that it gets returned to normal despite Sonic 4's non-ending) and uses the Time Stones to turn its present form back into the Death Egg Mark 2?

He then, perhaps with the help of his past/Classic self once again, uses it to successfully take over a majority of the present-time world, launching an army of Death Egg Robots?

I don't expect this to actually happen, though. Probably because Sonic 4 already used the Modern designs.

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9 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I really do need to see more info and some gameplay on this to really get excited. When can we expect actual news?

Generations got its first gameplay reveal a little over a fortnight after the CG teaser. Coincidentally, Summer of Sonic is happening two weeks from today so there's a possibility.

Thing is, Generations was months away from releasing. Considering how far away this game is, this could be as much as we get until sometime next year.

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Well, compliants aside, I'm curious to know what story this game will about and why Classic Sonic is there in the first place if it's really not Generations 2.

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I know the dark tone of this trailer has got people excited/interested, but I guess I'm just gonna have to wait until a gameplay trailer (and maybe some story details) comes out, because the dark tone does nothing for me. I suppose fans of the darker stuff deserve to be thrown a bone, like the Classic fans, but I just feel "meh" on this trailer overall. It looks cool, but with no gameplay, I've just got nothing to get excited about here. I'm not gonna lie, I'm disappointed.

Huh, so this is what it feels like.

Eh, well, until more details come out, I guess I'll just have to rediscover the Classic fan in me and get hyped for Sonic Mania.

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Y'know, it's kinda funny how y'all are super psyched about the darker tone. It's maybe the only part of the trailer I'm not decently satisfied with.

Part of this is just Sonic's track record with darker tones, but I'm wondering if a darker tone is even suited for Modern Sonic at all. The only real places I've seen more serious stakes work out in Sonic's favor are the OVA and, uh, maybe one of the Storybook games?? The rest contain either hefty amounts of (sometimes beautiful) cheese (SA1 and 2, parts of Unleashed), or are just downright ridiculous (Sonic 06, Shadow, Boom?). Meanwhile the more lighthearted entries, like the classic games and Modern Sonic's offerings, get along just fine because the stakes are already couched in decent gameplay. The failure of the player was more pressing than the failure of the protagonist in most of the darker offerings anyways, regardless of which evil vortex was trying to eat the world. 

In considering the problem, I've tried to reflect on other games that could pull out dark moments well, like Kid Icarus: Uprising. Now, the genius of Uprising was that most of the game was a farce because of the characters; the plot would, in any other game, be relatively serious, but Pit and Palutena being crazy meant that most of the game played like a comedy with high stakes, especially when X almost died or Y succumbed to darkness. Point being, stakes do not necessitate a darkness in tone; asking for the latter does not automatically grant you the former. If anything, I'd say the OVA is what got this right the most, being basically a goofy, irreverent action cartoon with a decently tense finale.

At the end of the day, you don't really need drama to make an audience care about the characters. You just need good characters, and a good writing hand.

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