Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kellan]

2 minutes ago, Depression Kong said:

Looking at this closer, the red lights in the sky caught my attention. Where are they coming from?

Aerial attack, perhaps?

I think they're just coming from more robots on the ground.

[Chris Knopps]

21 minutes ago, Miitoons said:

So I combined the piece of art that Aaron posted a little while back with this teeny snippet here, aaaaand... Huh, seems like this'll be a pretty hefty piece o' concept art! ( Inb4 the reason we're getting the art in chunks is cuz the new character is in the full version of it along with the two Sonics. )

Sonic 06 remake confirmed, now with more Unleashed focus.

#MakeTheWorstGreatAgain

[SSF1991]

1 hour ago, Kfarc said:

What is it? Crisis City? That new city? BBFA3 alternate ending? Could someone explain it?

Maybe @SSF1991 does know?

Well well well.

[Detective Kaito]

No clue how this pic was leaked, but it doesn't seem to tell us much. There's a city and it's in ruins, we already knew that.

[JezMM]

4 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

No clue how this pic was leaked, but it doesn't seem to tell us much. There's a city and it's in ruins, we already knew that.

Yeah when are we gonna get to the real reveals!?  I wanna know what the palm trees look like!

[Chris Knopps]

14 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Yeah when are we gonna get to the real reveals!?  I wanna know what the palm trees look like!

I wanna see what glitches are in the game.

[Milo]

Admittedly off-tangent from the current new artwork, but...

15 hours ago, Zippo said:

I can guarantee that this is not ever going to happen. Why? They didn't sell. Nights didn't sell. Samba De Amigo didn't sell. Burning Rangers didn't sell. ChuChu Rocket didn't sell. Ristar didn't sell. Billy Hatcher didn't sell. Sonic and a couple of other SEGA Franchises (Monkey Ball, Virtua Fighter) were the only things that ever sold anything past a million copies for them. They tried multiple times to give Sonic Team properties a second chance. No one bit. They doubled down on Sonic because it was proven there wasn't a huge market for most of, if not, all of those other games. Which is a shame, because many of those titles are fantastic.

Well if that's the case, then IMO the whole idea of trying to emphasize quality control for Sonic games (again) becomes somewhat pointless. Making a quality Sonic Sonic game goes beyond just having Sonic games ship as technically functional (which, to be blunt, has only been egregiously subverted by Sonic 2006 and Boom: Rise of Lyric). When people complain about how Unleashed was the last Sonic game to actually seem to "wow" people or have passion poured into it, how Sonic Team can never stick to one playstyle, and/or how Sonic Team doesn't really put enough thought/polish in their game design (emphasis on game design here); the lack of variety in their projects is part and parcel to this. If the team views making Sonic games as more of a chore, rather than something they really want to strive for; Sonic game won't rise above "good enough" games, let alone become an outstanding series again--and while this isn't the case for every studio, being stuck to make games for only one IP can result in this lack of interest. At their worst, developers may get so desperate in trying something new, they may try shoehorning things into the series that people would argue --if not unanimously agree-- that they don't belong in the IP (Shadow, Sonic 2006, Unleashed, Lost World....all of those games can be cited as guilty of engaging in this, for their own varying reasons).

Doubling down on an IP like Sega/Sonic Team did with Sonic leaves no room for any meaningful improvement going from one title to the next, or any reasonable time to let a gameplay foundation settle in. Each succeeding game feels more like abrasive reactions to how people reacted from the previous game, rather than feeling like a natural evolution or twist from what the previous title laid down (i.e. Unleashed has 2D and "no crappy friends" playable following 2006; Colors has no Werehog, toll gates, and hub worlds following Unleashed, etc.); they're not consistent with their overall progression on preceding games. I mentioned it a while back, but ignoring the non-platforming spinoffs (Riders, Olympics, ASR, etc.), mobile games, and the Dimps-developed digital/handheld games; Sonic Team ended up churning out a platforming Sonic game for six consecutive years throughout the seventh generation, starting with Sonic 2006. And look where that got them in reputation--not just in the eyes of their fans, reviewers, and the gaming community, but also in sales.

Sonic was able to cruise by on brand power alone throughout the 2000s, but is far from any shape from doing so today. Sales for Sonic games have steadily declined, to the point that Colors was the last game to pass two million in sales--and those sales weren't strictly by the Wii version either, the DS handheld games had to be lumped into it. And speaking of which, this also applies for the handheld games too, Rush Adventure and the Sonic Rivals games cratered so bad (all three games were released in a close timespan too, might I add) we don't have any more original handheld games either. The series tried to expand to quite a few subseries/spinoffs, but virtually all of them are dead by now. We don't get original handheld games anymore. Riders was killed off by Free Riders. Storybook series had the book closed on it long ago with Black Knight. Episode II for Sonic 4 did nowhere near as well as Episode I did. Only the Olympics party games are still around, and that's arguably due to contractual obligations / branding rather than actual sales (London Olympics 2012 was the last game to sell over one million). And it goes without saying that when Sega attempted to inject some new life into the IP with a new coat of paint through the Boom spinoff series, that attempt outright bombed harder than anything they had previously done before (TV show notwithstanding)--even though it wasn't actually developed by Sonic Team themselves.

Allowing Sonic Team to make non-Sonic games is important to avoiding this, even if they don't do gangbusters (emphasis on gangbusters here--if a game is given an honest chance but outright bombs, sure; back off from that, and try again later. But if it can perform modest sales, keep it around. Not everything can be an overnight hit.). Making original IPs, or even work on other Sega IPs from other studios (which, by the by, is the case with the Phantasy Star Online and Puyo Puyo games, which did decent numbers) is crucial to avoiding franchise fatigue, by both the markets and the developers themselves. (And this is arguably me being more pedantic, but I'd point out that for some of the games you listed, it's not a clear-cut case of "it didn't sell" on all of them. NiGHTS and Burning Rangers were on the Saturn, most games on there were doomed to failure outside of Japan. And Ristar came out in the twilight year of the Genesis, Sega by that point had shifted focus towards the upcoming Saturn launch in the West.)

[Multikaris]

20 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Admittedly off-tangent from the current new artwork, but...

Well if that's the case, then IMO the whole idea of trying to emphasize quality control for Sonic games (again) becomes somewhat pointless. Making a quality Sonic Sonic game goes beyond just having Sonic games ship as technically functional (which, to be blunt, has only been egregiously subverted by Sonic 2006 and Boom: Rise of Lyric). When people complain about how Unleashed was the last Sonic game to actually seem to "wow" people or have passion poured into it, how Sonic Team can never stick to one playstyle, and/or how Sonic Team doesn't really put enough thought/polish in their game design (emphasis on game design here); the lack of variety in their projects is part and parcel to this. If the team views making Sonic games as more of a chore, rather than something they really want to strive for; Sonic game won't rise above "good enough" games, let alone become an outstanding series again--and while this isn't the case for every studio, being stuck to make games for only one IP can result in this lack of interest. At their worst, developers may get so desperate in trying something new, they may try shoehorning things into the series that people would argue --if not unanimously agree-- that they don't belong in the IP (Shadow, Sonic 2006, Unleashed, Lost World....all of those games can be cited as guilty of engaging in this, for their own varying reasons).

Doubling down on an IP like Sega/Sonic Team did with Sonic leaves no room for any meaningful improvement going from one title to the next, or any reasonable time to let a gameplay foundation settle in. Each succeeding game feels more like abrasive reactions to how people reacted from the previous game, rather than feeling like a natural evolution or twist from what the previous title laid down (i.e. Unleashed has 2D and "no crappy friends" playable following 2006; Colors has no Werehog, toll gates, and hub worlds following Unleashed, etc.); they're not consistent with their overall progression on preceding games. I mentioned it a while back, but ignoring the non-platforming spinoffs (Riders, Olympics, ASR, etc.), mobile games, and the Dimps-developed digital/handheld games; Sonic Team ended up churning out a platforming Sonic game for six consecutive years throughout the seventh generation, starting with Sonic 2006. And look where that got them in reputation--not just in the eyes of their fans, reviewers, and the gaming community, but also in sales.

Sonic was able to cruise by on brand power alone throughout the 2000s, but is far from any shape from doing so today. Sales for Sonic games have steadily declined, to the point that Colors was the last game to pass two million in sales--and those sales weren't strictly by the Wii version either, the DS handheld games had to be lumped into it. And speaking of which, this also applies for the handheld games too, Rush Adventure and the Sonic Rivals games cratered so bad (all three games were released in a close timespan too, might I add) we don't have any more original handheld games either. The series tried to expand to quite a few subseries/spinoffs, but virtually all of them are dead by now. We don't get original handheld games anymore. Riders was killed off by Free Riders. Storybook series had the book closed on it long ago with Black Knight. Episode II for Sonic 4 did nowhere near as well as Episode I did. Only the Olympics party games are still around, and that's arguably due to contractual obligations / branding rather than actual sales (London Olympics 2012 was the last game to sell over one million). And it goes without saying that when Sega attempted to inject some new life into the IP with a new coat of paint through the Boom spinoff series, that attempt outright bombed harder than anything they had previously done before (TV show notwithstanding)--even though it wasn't actually developed by Sonic Team themselves.

Allowing Sonic Team to make non-Sonic games is important to avoiding this, even if they don't do gangbusters (emphasis on gangbusters here--if a game is given an honest chance but outright bombs, sure; back off from that, and try again later. But if it can perform modest sales, keep it around. Not everything can be an overnight hit.). Making original IPs, or even work on other Sega IPs from other studios (which, by the by, is the case with the Phantasy Star Online and Puyo Puyo games, which did decent numbers) is crucial to avoiding franchise fatigue, by both the markets and the developers themselves. (And this is arguably me being more pedantic, but I'd point out that for some of the games you listed, it's not a clear-cut case of "it didn't sell" on all of them. NiGHTS and Burning Rangers were on the Saturn, most games on there were doomed to failure outside of Japan. And Ristar came out in the twilight year of the Genesis, Sega by that point had shifted focus towards the upcoming Saturn launch in the West.)

I noticed that even All-Stars has mysteriously vanished now. Was it the negative response to the DLC by fans? And that series doesn't have anything to do with Sonic Team to my knowledge. Is there anything fishy? 

[Milo]

8 minutes ago, It's a Very Merry Miru said:

I noticed that even All-Stars has mysteriously vanished now. Was it the negative response to the DLC by fans? And that series doesn't have anything to do with Sonic Team to my knowledge. Is there anything fishy? 

I think it's less the ASR games are no longer viable, and more Sumo Digital has been busy working on other titles for other publishers. Forza Horizon series for Microsoft (they're also currently slated to be developing Crackdown 3 and Dead Island 2), LBP3 for Sony, and Disney Infinity 3.0 for Sony. They're also getting ready for the release of Snake Pass, which they developed but will also be publishing by themselves. I presume if the opportunity to make a new Sega ASR racing game for this generation comes up, they'll take it (in-between the development of those titles, they also made Sega's Sonic Dash 2: Sonic Boom for mobile devices).

[Chris Knopps]

56 minutes ago, Gabe said:

Admittedly off-tangent from the current new artwork, but...

Well if that's the case, then IMO the whole idea of trying to emphasize quality control for Sonic games (again) becomes somewhat pointless. Making a quality Sonic Sonic game goes beyond just having Sonic games ship as technically functional (which, to be blunt, has only been egregiously subverted by Sonic 2006 and Boom: Rise of Lyric). When people complain about how Unleashed was the last Sonic game to actually seem to "wow" people or have passion poured into it, how Sonic Team can never stick to one playstyle, and/or how Sonic Team doesn't really put enough thought/polish in their game design (emphasis on game design here); the lack of variety in their projects is part and parcel to this. If the team views making Sonic games as more of a chore, rather than something they really want to strive for; Sonic game won't rise above "good enough" games, let alone become an outstanding series again--and while this isn't the case for every studio, being stuck to make games for only one IP can result in this lack of interest. At their worst, developers may get so desperate in trying something new, they may try shoehorning things into the series that people would argue --if not unanimously agree-- that they don't belong in the IP (Shadow, Sonic 2006, Unleashed, Lost World....all of those games can be cited as guilty of engaging in this, for their own varying reasons).

Doubling down on an IP like Sega/Sonic Team did with Sonic leaves no room for any meaningful improvement going from one title to the next, or any reasonable time to let a gameplay foundation settle in. Each succeeding game feels more like abrasive reactions to how people reacted from the previous game, rather than feeling like a natural evolution or twist from what the previous title laid down (i.e. Unleashed has 2D and "no crappy friends" playable following 2006; Colors has no Werehog, toll gates, and hub worlds following Unleashed, etc.); they're not consistent with their overall progression on preceding games. I mentioned it a while back, but ignoring the non-platforming spinoffs (Riders, Olympics, ASR, etc.), mobile games, and the Dimps-developed digital/handheld games; Sonic Team ended up churning out a platforming Sonic game for six consecutive years throughout the seventh generation, starting with Sonic 2006. And look where that got them in reputation--not just in the eyes of their fans, reviewers, and the gaming community, but also in sales.

Sonic was able to cruise by on brand power alone throughout the 2000s, but is far from any shape from doing so today. Sales for Sonic games have steadily declined, to the point that Colors was the last game to pass two million in sales--and those sales weren't strictly by the Wii version either, the DS handheld games had to be lumped into it. And speaking of which, this also applies for the handheld games too, Rush Adventure and the Sonic Rivals games cratered so bad (all three games were released in a close timespan too, might I add) we don't have any more original handheld games either. The series tried to expand to quite a few subseries/spinoffs, but virtually all of them are dead by now. We don't get original handheld games anymore. Riders was killed off by Free Riders. Storybook series had the book closed on it long ago with Black Knight. Episode II for Sonic 4 did nowhere near as well as Episode I did. Only the Olympics party games are still around, and that's arguably due to contractual obligations / branding rather than actual sales (London Olympics 2012 was the last game to sell over one million). And it goes without saying that when Sega attempted to inject some new life into the IP with a new coat of paint through the Boom spinoff series, that attempt outright bombed harder than anything they had previously done before (TV show notwithstanding)--even though it wasn't actually developed by Sonic Team themselves.

Allowing Sonic Team to make non-Sonic games is important to avoiding this, even if they don't do gangbusters (emphasis on gangbusters here--if a game is given an honest chance but outright bombs, sure; back off from that, and try again later. But if it can perform modest sales, keep it around. Not everything can be an overnight hit.). Making original IPs, or even work on other Sega IPs from other studios (which, by the by, is the case with the Phantasy Star Online and Puyo Puyo games, which did decent numbers) is crucial to avoiding franchise fatigue, by both the markets and the developers themselves. (And this is arguably me being more pedantic, but I'd point out that for some of the games you listed, it's not a clear-cut case of "it didn't sell" on all of them. NiGHTS and Burning Rangers were on the Saturn, most games on there were doomed to failure outside of Japan. And Ristar came out in the twilight year of the Genesis, Sega by that point had shifted focus towards the upcoming Saturn launch in the West.)

Instead of working on other IP's why not just routinely change the staff at Sonic Team so workers STAY interested in Sonic no matter it being the prime focus of the division?

Seems like an insta-solution to me right there. Kick out the tired, bring in the hyped.

[Detective Kaito]

The Official Title for Project Sonic 2017 is: Sonic Forces.

[Psychicmoose103]

Re-name this thread to Sonic Forces

[Celestia]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Instead of working on other IP's why not just routinely change the staff at Sonic Team so workers STAY interested in Sonic no matter it being the prime focus of the division?

Seems like an insta-solution to me right there. Kick out the tired, bring in the hyped.

Somehow I don't think this would help with the series' problem of inconsistency.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Celestia said:

Somehow I don't think this would help with the series' problem of inconsistency.

That's why they background check staff to see what they know about the franchise and where they want to direct it before giving a position, ala Whitehead for instance.

[Detective Kaito]

Concept art looks amazing, but we still know nothing new besides the title. Still hopeful for a bit of gameplay.

[BubbleButt TV]

 

What a tease!

[Badnik Mechanic]

Yup. That's orange and brown.

[Diogenes]

Lame name, but at least it's not another R-name. Also with my rock-bottom expectations at least I can be pleasantly surprised the "one change" to the trailer wasn't a third Sonic.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Stephenb19 said:

Especially considering that most of us expected exactly that last year.

No we didn't. We all said we would get virtually nothing until Mania was out or near release.

Also the news embargo lifts tomorrow. Press have seen 30min of gameplay.

[Junko]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Carbo]

Sonic should treat all of it's titles like a verb

[Detective Kaito]

Sonic Forces? More like Sonic Farces!

[Celestia]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

That's why they background check staff to see what they know about the franchise and where they want to direct it before giving a position, ala Whitehead for instance.

Even if they do that, everyone's going to have different ideas for the series. I guess it depends on how often they changed the team, and I guess also depends on whether or not it's something SEGA enforces, but...eh, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

 

I really like the logo, and I'm curious to see what exactly the title is actually about. Are the Sonics going to lead an army :V

[Jango]

GAMEPLAY IS COMING! THREE OF THEM!

[Badnik Mechanic]

It's an evolution of Generations and Colours.

 

Completely new game engine.