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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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2 minutes ago, JaidynReiman said:

I don't get what you're trying to argue here.

 

The only thing notable here is that there's this goofy, extremely cartoony hill backdrop amidst a clearly modern city, something we have never seen before. Its either uber-realistic or cartoony environments, not both in the same game.

 

Sans potentially Generations, but most of the environments still fall on the realism scale.

I mean the fact that people are acting like Sonic's level Design has ever had a consistent theme to it. It's almost always made up of Loop-Dee-Loops and Checker Boards with the occasional Cityscape and/or Industrial nightmare and that's going back to the Genesis games.

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29 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Every fanbase has it's extremists and purists. Thanks to some of Sega's absolutely insane decisions made in the mid 2000s, Sonic's are a bit more pronounced (understatement, but you know).

That doesn't excuse that this is the only series I've ever known of that actually builds their games and future decisions around said extremists. 

...It would be nice if we stop acting like the 2000's was terrible already when it had the same balance of greatness and failure as the Genesis and Modern era.

Genesis era had the questionable spin-off's and handheld titles.

00's era had the questionable Shadow and 06 titles.

Modern era has the questionable spin-off's and one-off's.

For positivity...

Genesis era had the original trilogy

00's era had the Adventure titles, Advance titles, Rush titles and Heroes

Modern era had Unleashed, Colors, and Generations

(Edit)

Any argument against this is just plain personal favoritism/discontent and not factual failures.

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If there is a 3rd different playable character and it‘s not just something like Modern & Classic Sonic working together... If so on that idea I hope it’s not another Sonic beyond all hope I hope for that… Think about it for a moment… If it’s some kind of new Future Sonic and people actually end up enjoying the 3rd gameplay style of them… That means SEGA would feel as if they need to use Modern, Classic AND this Future Sonic in future games. That would be a huge mistake. I could see them using Boom Sonic instead in a effort to make people like Boom Sonic more so they can sell that branch harder while giving him all new gameplay that’s a mix of Sonic adventure style maybe…  Still I find this idea doubtful. Furthermore look at it from another angle… When telling somebody what all 3 of the playable characters are in this new game and you have to reply “Sonic and Sonic… And another Sonic.” It’s among the most cringe statements ever.

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I wonder for how long this era will be continuously called "The Modern Era". If the modern era started at Sonic 06, then we've been at it for over 10 years. We need a new a name...

The Moderner Era.

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Just now, Detective Kaito said:

I wonder for how long this era will be continuously called "The Modern Era". If the modern era started at Sonic 06, then we've been at it for over 10 years. We need a new a name...

The Moderner Era.

I think i have a better one.

"The Backtracking Era"

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3 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I wonder for how long this era will be continuously called "The Modern Era". If the modern era started at Sonic 06, then we've been at it for over 10 years. We need a new a name...

The Moderner Era.

Technically, Modern Sonic is Adventure Sonic.

 

Tbh, the Modern Era really started with Unleashed. That started the whole boost gameplay. Sonic '06 was an extension of Adventure-style gameplay, they just failed miserably at it.

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It'd be really weird if the 3rd play style wasn't represented by a 3rd Sonic the hedgehog. You already got 2 Sonics, but now there's just this 3rd character...a 3rd wheel, but it doesn't even match the existing wheels. It just wouldn't seem right.

 

Even if an actual "not Sonic" would be better in visual variety...

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8 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I mean the fact that people are acting like Sonic's level Design has ever had a consistent theme to it. It's almost always made up of Loop-Dee-Loops and Checker Boards with the occasional Cityscape and/or Industrial nightmare and that's going back to the Genesis games.

That is a consistent theme. Loops and specifically checkerboard land were very much the aesthetic of Sonic games up until Sonic Adventure which ditched the checkerboard theme in favor of realistic textures.

Checkerboards made a comeback in Heroes but they didn't show up again in a 3D game until Sonic Colors. In between those games we had places like Crisis City, Rooftop Run, and Empire City but we've never seen a location where someone chose to build a city on one of the checkerboarded landmasses that appear to populate Sonic's world.

Its subtle, and non-fans probably won't notice, but I appreciate the consistency.

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So, can I assume that the console version of Project 2017 is going to target 1080p60fps on the Xbone and PS4? Is the PC version going to have a capped framerate? How is the game going to scale in terms of settings and performance? I assume it's going to be massively scalable because it's going to need to run well on the Switch in portable mode.

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14 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

...It would be nice if we stop acting like the 2000's was terrible already when it had the same balance of greatness and failure as the Genesis and Modern era.

Genesis era had the questionable spin-off's and handheld titles.

00's era had the questionable Shadow and 06 titles.

Modern era has the questionable spin-off's and one-off's.

For positivity...

Genesis era had the original trilogy

00's era had the Adventure titles, Advance titles, Rush titles and Heroes

Modern era had Unleashed, Colors, and Generations

(Edit)

Any argument against this is just plain personal favoritism/discontent and not factual failures.

You just compared the Genesis era's tenancy to screw up minor spinoffs to sonic team blowing mainstream big budget projects for everyone to see, some of which are still made fun of to this day. Please think about what you are saying. You don't need to argue for the sake of arguing.

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1 minute ago, shdowhunt60 said:

So, can I assume that the console version of Project 2017 is going to target 1080p60fps on the Xbone and PS4? Is the PC version going to have a capped framerate? How is the game going to scale in terms of settings and performance? I assume it's going to be massively scalable because it's going to need to run well on the Switch in portable mode.

Nah, probably 60fps docked, 30fps portable.

And it's not arguing for the sake of arguing Josh, it's pointing out truths hidden behind peoples personal spite/dislike/preferences.

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Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Nah, probably 60fps docked, 30fps portable.

They're going to make some massive cuts in visual fidelity to achieve that, is what I'm saying. The Switch in portable mode is massively slower than either current gen console. Nevermind what's on PC.

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3 minutes ago, Josh said:

You just compared the Genesis era's tenancy to screw up minor spinoffs to sonic team blowing mainstream big budget projects for everyone to see, some of which are still made fun of to this day. Please think about what you are saying. You don't need to argue for the sake of arguing.

Also, lets not pretend Rise of Lyric wasn't a thing.

You have that which is equivalent to 06 and Shadow.

So... Again, every era has had the same successes and mistakes fairly balanced out. There is no "pure" era whatsoever and whatever thoughts there may be against that are, again, a matter of personal favoritism/spite.

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they're really not "fairly balanced out".

 

Classic, every single main game was a hit, and even the questionable side stuff were, in their majority, good.

 

"Dreamcast era", Sonic Team's only hits were the Adventures, which are also generally agreed to be immensely flawed due to the multiple gameplay styles. You don't fish in Sonic 3. Beyond that, Heroes sold on the strength of being the first big multiplatformer, and Shadow is laughable. The only hits on this era are the side games.

 

Modern era, Sonic Team's back to doing the hits themselves, but even then, they're not as big hits as Classic (and also they open the era with Sonic 06), and Lost World was considered a failure overall. Boom then worsens this, and there's not even side mobile games to balance it out.

So

Classic - Good main titles, good to mediocre to occasional bad side titles

Dreamcast- Mediocre to bad main titles, good to mediocre side titles

Modern- Good to mediocre and one bad main title, mediocre to bad side titles

 

The only way you can consider this in any way balanced is if you think Sonic Advance is as important or relevant to the franchise as Sonic 2.

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2 minutes ago, The KKM said:

The only way you can consider this in any way balanced is if you think Sonic Advance is as important or relevant to the franchise as Sonic 2.

This is what we call "cherry-picking".

Yes, it is important and relevant to the franchise because it is still a main game within the franchise. It being a handheld doesn't strip it of that title. It's high time you got rid of that narrow-minded way of thinking.

The 3 Advances, 2 Rush games, 2 Rivals games and even Colors DS all count for something regardless of what you think of them.

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13 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Also, lets not pretend Rise of Lyric wasn't a thing.

You have that which is equivalent to 06

It really isn't, considering that RoL, a spin-off with a different playstyle from mainstream Sonic that even got patched to a far more stable state than the best 06, a mainstream Sonic game that screwed the pooch massively to the point of dooming the Adventure playstyle would get to be,  didn't have an near the fallout that 06 produced in the first place. 

Heck Rise of Lyric even had legitimate funny moments and a better penned story than 06 to boot. 

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6 minutes ago, The KKM said:

they're really not "fairly balanced out".

 

Classic, every single main game was a hit, and even the questionable side stuff were, in their majority, good.

 

"Dreamcast era", Sonic Team's only hits were the Adventures, which are also generally agreed to be immensely flawed due to the multiple gameplay styles. You don't fish in Sonic 3. Beyond that, Heroes sold on the strength of being the first big multiplatformer, and Shadow is laughable. The only hits on this era are the side games.

 

Modern era, Sonic Team's back to doing the hits themselves, but even then, they're not as big hits as Classic (and also they open the era with Sonic 06), and Lost World was considered a failure overall. Boom then worsens this, and there's not even side mobile games to balance it out.

So

Classic - Good main titles, good to mediocre to occasional bad side titles

Dreamcast- Mediocre to bad main titles, good to mediocre side titles

Modern- Good to mediocre and one bad main title, mediocre to bad side titles

 

The only way you can consider this in any way balanced is if you think Sonic Advance is as important or relevant to the franchise as Sonic 2.

And what is most if not all of that...?

An opinion...

By and large one that began in recent years via critics, then various communities gripped onto those critics, who's opinions are also just "opinions" and try to push and maintain them as facts, when they are not.

Fans opinions are not factual.

Critics opinions are not factual.

By and large throughout the years the titles of the Genesis, 00's, and Modern era have all been great sellers, with all three era's providing both fond and negative memories for this or that reason.

The only thing we have that's factual are sales numbers really, and again, looking at those numbers, equality once again sets in.

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5 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

This is what we call "cherry-picking".

Yes, it is important and relevant to the franchise because it is still a main game within the franchise. It being a handheld doesn't strip it of that title. It's high time you got rid of that narrow-minded way of thinking.

It's relevant, sure.

It's nowhere near as relevant or important as Sonic 2, which is what KKM said (I guess you cherry-picked his words, lol). Advance is great, but even then it's not much of a patch on the Classic titles honestly, especially as the series went on. 

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4 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

It really isn't, considering that RoL, a spin-off with a different playstyle from mainstream Sonic that even got patched to a far more stable state than the best 06, a mainstream Sonic that screwed the pooch massively to the point of dooming the Adventure playstyle would get to be,  didn't have an near the fallout that 06 produced in the first place. 

We must have entirely different memories of the Rise of Lyric and, to a degree, Shattered Crystal fallout then, accompanied with the Lost World fallout which was nowhere near as bad, but still a rather salty experience.

Nobody ever got hurt because of 06 for example, BOOM had folks attacked at stores... lol

(But hey, THAT's just ME cherry picking now)

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2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

The only thing we have that's factual are sales numbers really, and again, looking at those numbers, equality once again sets in.

Equating sales to quality and balance between how the series has run is a fool's errand when you consider 06 was a Platinum seller. 

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3 hours ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

This is what we call "cherry-picking".

Yes, it is important and relevant to the franchise because it is still a main game within the franchise. It being a handheld doesn't strip it of that title. It's high time you got rid of that narrow-minded way of thinking.

The 3 Advances, 2 Rush games, 2 Rivals games and even Colors DS all count for something regardless of what you think of them.

Is Sonic Labyrinth as relevant to the franchise as Sonic 2, then?

The Dreamcast-era side games count for something, yes. They're generally fun and were the best part about it. They're still not the mainline releases, the games made with the biggest budget, by the main team (Sonic Team), for the big home consoles.

 

EDIT: I'll go as far as saying that Rise of Lyric, the only Sonic game in Nintendo's main console for a few years, is more relevant to the franchise, sadly, than Sonic Advance.

 

EDIT EDIT: As has been pointed out, I forgot Lost World was originally a Wii U game.

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Duke Nukem sold a shit ton. And Aliens Colonial Marines. Guess people forget other factors that result in these massive sales. Hype, false advertising, lack of discussion and promotion of the actual product itself, semi-truths, promises that aren't met, brand recognition, etc

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