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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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Just now, Diogenes said:

What does this even mean?

The whole lock-on icons remind me of shooter games, mostly arcade based ones. It's like the game is telling you to fire and... I dunno...

I just don't like a bunch of icons all over the screen on top of the usual life bar, timer, etc.

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I'm down for the homing reticle being optional. Those who started playing since 2007 might be put off about the lack of a homing reticle in the game.

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3 minutes ago, JezMM said:

The only issue is whether they do any moments like the homing attack focused DLC stages in Sonic Unleashed where aiming to a particular target was important - I kind of loved that gameplay since it wasn't just pushing A over and over without really thinking about it, and I'd like to see that return.  Perhaps a middle ground could be found - no sound effect but targets glow with a subtle highlight when they're your current aim.

2

I'd be so down for a few of those homing attack areas where you've got to time your attack or not mindlessly target everything. Generations had a few of these with the swinging axes between balloons in Rooftop Run. It could be expanded upon though definitely. Some more of those rarely seen springs with spikes on the other side would be welcome.

And I actually really love that idea for the homing attack. Boom already did it, and it would be good to see that applied to every target in main games. It's much less jarring than BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP every time you jump.

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I never liked the homing reticule so I'm all for dropping it or at least making it optional. If nothing else the lack of a reticule can open the door for some more involved homing chains where the player has to actually judge the direction and distance to the target instead of just waiting and pressing the button when the little icon to appears. 

Of course for all we know the reticules may have simply been turned off for the demonstration like the rest of the HUD.

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I really do feel Unleashed's DLC is a treasure trove of creative uses of modern Sonic's gameplay toolset that they really ought to dip into more often.  Just... don't make it as brutally hard.  Or if the whole point of a mechanic is lost if it's not hard, use it to reach secret areas rather than being the only route.

 

This moment from Cool Edge Act 2-2 is always one of the more memorable examples re: creative homing attacking:

(Will jump to the intended time - sorry for quality, all HD videos are speedruns that skip this segment - for those who can't tell, all the springs that the player ignores are Eggman push-back ones, you have to aim for the correct spring or abstain from homing attacking on the last set until you've gone past them).

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I don't get what we gain from taking the reticules out. Judging whether you can actually hit something or not was rarely some skill based venture. Aiming for the right thing is one thing I want to see more of, but I need to know that me and the game are on the same page. 

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Question...

Why do you need those three boost rings hanging in the air when Sonic launches over that bottomless section?

Shouldn't he be able to reach the other side with player input like an air-boost instead of rings auto-playing?

It seems like the stage just wants you to keep up with the missiles exploding so it auto-pushes you forward.

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This stage is so blatantly a tutorial/short spectacle stage... are we really going to start nitpicking the placement of trick rings now?

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2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

This stage is so blatantly a tutorial/short spectacle stage... are we really going to start nitpicking the placement of trick rings now?

I'd say that's a definite yes. Flaws are flaws. Auto is auto.

I don't mind boost pads so much, but when I wanna send myself soaring in the air only for rings to snatch me and force me this and that way, no like.

This ain't Donkey Kong Country.

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37 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

It's intrusive and so BEEPING annoying. Even with the less precise homing attack from games predating Unleashed, I would rarely miss my target (SA2 double jump glitch notwithstanding). I know what I'm going for and don't rely on it to tell me. These days the homing attack is even more reliable simply because of the way that it works. The reticule isn't necessary. Of all gameplay potential options, it's a really harmless one. Letting players turn it off if they want to... What's there to not like? 

Although Jez's suggestion about making targets glow when they're active is equally good, if not better. 

The reticule's only purpose was to let the player know when they were in range to homing attack an enemy...how the homing attack actually worked had nothing to do with that, but they just changed it anyway.

Instead of following an object for like 5 seconds in a straight line (if the target is moving at Sonic's speed), or indefinitely if you go into orbit, it instead now works by just homing in a straight line in that direction of the object very fast for short while (if you somehow missed)

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I'm now remembering Endri's post on Sonic Retro about the Sonic gameplay he saw years ago. He said it wasn't Lost World style or boost style... and that he liked it.

I wonder if that piece of gameplay has finally made it into Sonic Forces, many years have passed so who knows? But if the third gameplay style is indeed something completely new that, according to a Sonic Retro guy, Sonic fans will like, I'm interested in it! C'mon SEGA, show us that mysterious third style!

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Wondered when someone would bring that up.

They're prototyping and playtesting stuff all the time. Don't be too surprised if it's been scrapped or looks really different now.

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As much as some people wanna complain about Boost being back, I'm actually happy that it is. Sonic Team picking a gameplay style for Sonic, sticking with it & improving on it instead of just ditching it, coming up with something new just to ditch that too is a good thing, as it finally gives the 3D games some consistency. Also, I loved what was shown at SXSW. Not only did the Boost gameplay look fun, but the game itself looked visually stunning. The theme is awesome & the possibility of Tails, Knuckles, Amy & The Chaotix doing more than just being cheerleaders in the story fills me with excitement. Sure Classic Sonic being back still sucks to me, but everything else about Forces sounds awesome, & I'm actually looking forward to this more than Mania at this point.

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Looking at that Green Hill footage, I just realized they're using classic boostpads in Forces.

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5 minutes ago, D.H said:

As much as some people wanna complain about Boost being back, I'm actually happy that it is. Sonic Team picking a gameplay style for Sonic, sticking with it & improving on it instead of just ditching it, coming up with something new just to ditch that too is a good thing, as it finally gives the 3D games some consistency. Also, I loved what was shown at SXSW. Not only did the Boost gameplay look fun, but the game itself looked visually stunning. The theme is awesome & the possibility of Tails, Knuckles, Amy & The Chaotix doing more than just being cheerleaders in the story fills me with excitement. Sure Classic Sonic being back still sucks to me, but everything else about Forces sounds awesome, & I'm actually looking forward to this more than Mania at this point.

See... Here's my thing...

The boost, is it BAD per-se? Not at all.

Is it better than Lost World's game play? ABSOLUTELY!

But...

The first time they show off the game play they choose the most automated section of a stage in the game possible.

Boost pad, boost pad, homing chain, boost pad, springs, boost rings, boost pad...

I don't inherently HATE the boost, but when the stage design is made in a manner that keeps you at a boost speed when you're not boosting, making the boost pointless in the first place, and simultaneously taking most control from you, or need of control really, that's the problem.

(Edit)

"Oh, here's a turn! Don't worry, we got you! (boost pad!) there, we changed direction for you!"

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23 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'd say that's a definite yes. Flaws are flaws. Auto is auto.

I don't mind boost pads so much, but when I wanna send myself soaring in the air only for rings to snatch me and force me this and that way, no like.

This ain't Donkey Kong Country.

You're right, it's a 3D Sonic game, doing the exact thing the first stages of 3D Sonic games have been doing for literally almost a decade now.

What exactly do you wish you could do over that giant bottomless pit that you can't do because of those rings?

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1 minute ago, Spooky Mulder said:

You're right, it's a 3D Sonic game, doing the exact thing the first stages of 3D Sonic games have been doing for literally almost a decade now.

What exactly do you wish you could do over that giant bottomless pit that you can't do because of those rings?

Basically just reach the other side with my own skill, not hand holding.

Which seems reasonably possible.

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7 minutes ago, Spooky Mulder said:

You're right, it's a 3D Sonic game, doing the exact thing the first stages of 3D Sonic games have been doing for literally almost a decade now.

What exactly do you wish you could do over that giant bottomless pit that you can't do because of those rings?

How about having them not actually be bottomless pits, or just don't make the player cross over them at all and...replace them with crushers.

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25 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

See... Here's my thing...

The boost, is it BAD per-se? Not at all.

Is it better than Lost World's game play? ABSOLUTELY!

But...

The first time they show off the game play they choose the most automated section of a stage in the game possible.

Boost pad, boost pad, homing chain, boost pad, springs, boost rings, boost pad...

I don't inherently HATE the boost, but when the stage design is made in a manner that keeps you at a boost speed when you're not boosting, making the boost pointless in the first place, and simultaneously taking most control from you, or need of control really, that's the problem.

(Edit)

"Oh, here's a turn! Don't worry, we got you! (boost pad!) there, we changed direction for you!"

Yes I get it, people don't like the boost pads & I can understand why. But that wasn't enough to hurt the preview for me. I still saw something that looked like fun, had shit going on (I mean the sight of meteors going through the city, the Death Egg Sentinels attacking the city, etc.) & it got me hyped for Forces. 

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8 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

How about having them not actually be bottomless pits, or just don't make the player cross over them at all and...replace them with crushers.

Its just a transition phase. Its not supposed to be something up for exploration. Its just there to give you (and possibly the engine) a quick breather while delivering you to the next set of challenges. Show off a little spectacle to get the player ready to keep pushing. Get you to a proper starting point for the next part of the stage.

Sonic games are full of them. Most games are full of them. They are necessary when your talking about proper paceing. Lets not all go crazy here about something this trivial.

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4 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Its just a transition phase. Its not supposed to be something up for exploration. Its just there to give you (and possibly the engine) a quick breather while delivering you to the next set of challenges. Show off a little spectacle to get the player ready to keep pushing. Get you to a proper starting point for the next part of the stage.

Sonic games are full of them. Most games are full of them. They are necessary when your talking about proper paceing. Lets not all go crazy here about something this trivial.

I don't know. After like...5 games, it isn't so much of a spectacle anymore. It's just samey, they just need more visual variety. Scenes where we see stuff happening while Sonic the hedgehog is being automated through a section are fine, but just flying through multiple dash rings isn't really visually interesting.

 

There's nothing really forcing every breather section to be completely automated.

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2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

There's nothing really forcing every breather section to be completely automated.

Of course not. But singling out the ones that are, and asking why you cant be open to exploring that area seems rather... nitpicky. Like OCD levels of nitpicky.

With that kind of mindset, you could criticize the game for holding your hand every single time you hit a bounce pad.

 

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4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I don't know. After like...5 games, it isn't so much of a spectacle anymore. It's just samey, they just need more visual variety. Scenes where we see stuff happening while Sonic the hedgehog is being automated through a section are fine, but just flying through multiple dash rings isn't really visually interesting.

 

There's nothing really forcing every breather section to be completely automated.

Pretty much this. I mentioned Sonic Utopia where the player uses their own momentum to cross wide spaces instead of automation taking hold. I like playing with gravity like that, you feel... Free, it feels loose, whereas having the game automate you even when airborne just feels... Stiff, jerky, it demands you do what it wants, the way it wants, instead of finding your own means of conquering the obstacle.

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