Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Blue Blood]

So how about that new Sonic game, guys?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

17 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

So, you're telling me not to "mince words" as it were, yet your reasoning for it is something completely arbitrary and hardly much of a difference?

My reasoning for it is more of an observation to how different people have ragged on bad plots in games with good gameplay vs bad plots in games with bad gameplay. Not exactly completely arbitrary given that very difference with ShTH and Sonic 06 being considred more the latter while games succeeding them have teetered along the lines of the former.

Quote

But if that's your justification, then people were never vitriolic about the plots specifically, were they?

...yes, they were? People haven't been letting games like Generations get off the leash for how lacking and irritating a chunk of their plots have been in hindsight since Pontac and Graff took the reigns in Colors. They're just not as vitrolic as they were with ShTh and Sonic 06 due to these two games having incredibly bad gameplay by comparison, which as I've said before, magnified the bad parts of the rest of the game. That doesn't mean the plots get off the hook.

Quote

Not any more than they would have been about every other broken aspect of those games. I'm pretty sure the only reason it looks like people are "ragging on" the stories (as you've apparently mandated it be worded) specifically because the rest of the game is bad is because we've never had a good Sonic game with as much failure in it's plot and characterization as those two. But then, we've still had plenty of bad spinoffs and such with completely unremarkable or harmless plots, so what exactly do you have left to stand on here?

...again, that is literally the same thing I just said at the start.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Because beyond that, you're rambling.

[neezTHEhuman]

Does any one have a plausible explanation as to why 2D sections in modern Sonic stages are confirmed to be returning when Classic Sonic exists and is playable in the same game? Didn't make sense in Gens and doesn't make sense in Forces either.

[Kintor]

9 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

 

Except they'd also have to make it not boring as shit to play, which it already becomes during one playthrough, let alone the ten it takes to get to the real ending.

Yeah, the best way that I can sum up Shadow the Hedgehog: the ideas look good on paper but were poorly executed in the end. I mean, I never get tired of playing Out Run even though the first area is always the same in every version of the game, before the branching paths start. But replaying the first level in Shadow the Hedgehog does get tiring on repeat playthroughs. Maybe if the first level was shorter or even skippable after you beat it once fans would've been more forgiving.

 

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, neezTHEhuman said:

Does any one have a plausible explanation as to why 2D sections in modern Sonic stages are confirmed to be returning when Classic Sonic exists and is playable in the same game? Didn't make sense in Gens and doesn't make sense in Forces either.

Sonic Team is incompetent and doesn't know how to make good gameplay, so they're leaning heavily on the one thing they've done that has gotten some degree of praise.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

My reasoning for it is more of an observation to how different people have ragged on bad plots in games with good gameplay vs bad plots in games with bad gameplay. Not exactly completely arbitrary given that very difference with ShTH and Sonic 06 being considred more the latter while games succeeding them have teetered along the lines of the former.

But such a statement would only work if the newer games' plots were anywhere close to as bad as what Shadow and 06 brought to the table, which they are not.

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

...yes, they were? People haven't been letting games like Generations get off the leash for how lacking and irritating a chunk of their plots have been in hindsight since Pontac and Graff took the reigns in Colors. They're just not as vitrolic as they were with ShTh and Sonic 06 due to these games having incredibly bad gameplay, which as I've said before, magnified the bad parts of the rest of the game.

You've misunderstood, I'm talking about Shadow and 06 here. You're saying the bad gameplay magnifies the aggression toward the plot, but what I'm saying is that if that's the case, then what people are really mad about wouldn't actually be the plot at all, since it would apply to every other facet of the game. You'd have to also have people claiming that the music was bad in both, or that the graphics in both were also bad for all the same reasons, but that's not the case (well Shadow and 06 do have bad graphics and Shadow's music does suck, but that's not because the gameplay is bad). You'd have to assume that the carried-over vitriol for one element of the game would either distribute to different aspects of it depending on the person, or that it would be over a general part of each game, not the story specifically.

8 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

...again, that is literally the same thing I just just said at the start.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Because beyond that, you're rambling.

No, I'm not, you're taking what I've said out of context. I'm trying to explain the reasoning I have for what it appears that you believe, the rest of the statement is decidedly not what you've said. I would appreciate in the future if you didn't try to misconstrue what I'm saying as pointlessly argumentative or rambling.

[Blue Speedster]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Sonic Team is incompetent and doesn't know how to make good gameplay, so they're leaning heavily on the one thing they've done that has gotten some degree of praise.

Did you not play colors? Quite possibly the best Modern Sonic title in forever. had everything that we wanted to see done right. Sonic Team made that game for the best of everything in the 3D games

[Diogenes]

Just now, Blue Speedster said:

Did you not play colors?

A game that is only "good" at best, but still has some major flaws. Also the vast majority of it is 2D, and the few 3D sections are pretty shallow, so it's certainly not making any kind of contribution towards a fully 3D Sonic game.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

But such a statement would only work if the newer games' plots were anywhere close to as bad as what Shadow and 06 brought to the table, which they are not.

No where did I even say or imply that, dude. Now you're just making strawmans.

Quote

You've misunderstood, I'm talking about Shadow and 06 here. You're saying the bad gameplay magnifies the aggression toward the plot, but what I'm saying is that if that's the case, then what people are really mad about wouldn't actually be the plot at all, since it would apply to every other facet of the game. You'd have to also have people claiming that the music was bad in both, or that the graphics in both were also bad for all the same reasons, but that's not the case (well Shadow and 06 do have bad graphics and Shadow's music does suck, but that's not because the gameplay is bad). You'd have to assume that the carried-over vitriol for one element of the game would either distribute to different aspects of it depending on the person, or that it would be over a general part of each game, not the story specifically.

So basically, basically what people are made about is the gameplay, and as a result practically everything else was considered bad along with it.

Again, the same thing I said from the beginning, dude. So why are you this dead set on arguing over this?

Quote

No, I'm not, you're taking what I've said out of context. I'm trying to explain the reasoning I have for what it appears that you believe, the rest of the statement is decidedly not what you've said. I would appreciate in the future if you didn't try to misconstrue what I'm saying as pointlessly argumentative or rambling.

Which is practically strawmaning. How about you not do that in return, because you're kinda are being rather argumentative over a simple statement saying that the bad gameplay magnified the other bad parts of the game.

[Blue Speedster]

Just now, Diogenes said:

A game that is only "good" at best, but still has some major flaws. Also the vast majority of it is 2D, and the few 3D sections are pretty shallow, so it's certainly not making any kind of contribution towards a fully 3D Sonic game.

 

Clearly you have no idea how to see when a Sonic title is deemed on of the best in the series. Colors felt like the Sonic game we were waiting for after the day stages in Unleashed. Forces is  continuing that trait because  it works so well.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

So basically, because the gameplay was bad, everything else was considered bad along with it.

Again, the same thing I said from the beginning, dude. So why are you this dead set on arguing over this?

Because everything else wasn't considered bad. People praise 06's soundtrack and even it's graphics to this day, and I've actually known plenty of people that like Shadow's multiplayer. Hell, any stupid youtube comments section will have someone who thinks 06 does have a good plot.

4 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

you're kinda are being rather argumentative over a simple statement saying that the bad gameplay magnified the other bad parts of the game.

Because that's not the case, at least for the story. I fully believe that 06 and Shadow have stupid enough plots that people would hate them as much if the games were good. It's something I disagreed with, so I spoke out about it.

[FriendBot]

11 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

Clearly you have no idea how to see when a Sonic title is deemed on of the best in the series. Colors felt like the Sonic game we were waiting for after the day stages in Unleashed. Forces is  continuing that trait because  it works so well.

Is Colors the best Sonic game cause I don't think every person would like every stage be like Marble Zone?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Because everything else wasn't considered bad. People praise 06's soundtrack and even it's graphics to this day, and I've actually known plenty of people that like Shadow's multiplayer. Hell, any stupid youtube comments section will have someone who thinks 06 does have a good plot.

I like how you've completely changed the entire argument into something entirely different here and are now contradicting yourself over how people consider these parts good when you also claimed they were calling them bad in your last posts. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing here...

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

Because that's not the case, at least for the story. I fully believe that 06 and Shadow have stupid enough plots that people would hate them as much if the games were good. It's something I disagreed with, so I spoke out about it.

Then you've been mincing words the entire time, because once again, no where did I say that those stories were any good and that people would like them.

Not once. That was something you came up with and strawmanned as something i said.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just now, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I like how you've completely changed the entire argument into something entirely different here and are now contradicting yourself over how people consider these parts good when you also claimed they were calling them bad in your last posts.

No, I'm not. I specified before that just because those ""higher points"" were bad didn't mean everyone thought they were. I'm not contradicting anything. You're saying I'm agreeing with you because you're taking fragments of what I say that only exemplify the things I'm disagreeing with and presenting them as if they were all I had said.

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

no where did I say that those stories were any good and that people would like them.

You said people treated the stories worse because the rest of the games in question were bad. That, by any logical thought, means that if the games were good, people would think the stories were better.

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing here...

 

4 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Then you've been mincing words the entire time,

 

5 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That was something you came up with and strawmanned as something i said.

Do you just not want to argue? Because the way to do that would be telling me you don't want to argue about this, not to just keep saying "strawman" until people think you're right. I have something that I disagreed with, relating to games I feel very strongly about. I care about what this conversation means, and if you don't, then just come out and say it, please.

[Blue Speedster]

13 minutes ago, Soni said:

Is Colors the best Sonic game cause I don't think every person would like every stage be like Marble Zone?

Marbel Zone was meant to be precision platforming,  which is where colors did the same for some levels. Most Sonic fans consider colors to be the best post 06 era. If Sonic Forces continues the traits from that and Generations, we will have a darn great title

[FriendBot]

5 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

Marbel Zone was meant to be precision platforming,  which is where colors did the same for some levels. Most Sonic fans consider colors to be the best post 06 era. If Sonic Forces continues the traits from that and Generations, we will have a darn great title

Unleashed is way better than either Colors or Generations.

[Blue Speedster]

Just now, Soni said:

Unleashed is way better than either Colors or Generations.

Yeah. OK. I find that hard to believe. Seriously, that is just not true

[Radiant Hero Ike]

So uh

Sonic Forces looks pretty cool

I quite like how there's Sonic

and

F-Forces

Uh

Oh! I showed the gameplay to my sisters and the younger one (14) was like, "he moves too fast!!", which I thought was funny/cute. They both said that about Unleashed and Gens too, hehe.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Soni said:

Unleashed is way better than either Colors or Generations.

 

1 minute ago, Blue Speedster said:

Yeah. OK. I find that hard to believe. Seriously, that is just not true

How about we just say that it's each other's opinion on which game is better like normal people do. I honestly prefer Unleashed but I'm not gonna diss people who like Colors better and vice versa.

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Blue Speedster said:

Yeah. OK. I find that hard to believe. Seriously, that is just not true

Colours is flaming piss. Half the sodding game's filler acts, with an overabundance of 2D and a neutered Unleashed/Generations moveset reduced to context-sensitivity as a result of the naff level design.

But some folks find it to be good, and that's OK innit

[Blue Speedster]

Just now, blazefan519 said:

 

How about we just say that it's each other's opinion on which game is better like normal people do. I honestly prefer Unleashed but I'm not gonna diss people who like Colors better and vice versa.

OK. I guess i over reacted. I'm sorry guys. I just have a passion drive for those games. I am really sorry

[FriendBot]

Sonic Forces could be a good game or not, I don't know.

[JosepHenry]

ok...

... I want more character interactions in Forces! I want a scene with Cream inviting Classic Sonic to a tea party. ... 

But serious, Sonic characters have so much personality wasted... They should try and use them. 

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

ok...

... I want more character interactions in Forces! I want a scene with Cream inviting Classic Sonic to a tea party.

That'd be hype. I kinda liked how it was in Heroes where the characters would banter with each other, but not obnoxious. Like when Knuckles started getting scared when they were about to be launched out of a cannon. That was nice.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

in Heroes where the characters would banter with each other, but not obnoxious. Like when Knuckles started getting scared when they were about to be launched out of a cannon. That was nice.

It was totally obnoxious in Heroes, and annoying too.

That was more because it was pretty badly written and acted in English, but still.

If Rise of Lyric has taught us anything, it's that we should either keep them infrequent, or be able to turn them off.