Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[blazefan519]

Just now, Shaddy the guy said:

It was totally obnoxious in Heroes, and annoying too.

That was more because it was pretty badly written and acted in English, but still.

If Rise of Lyric has taught us anything, it's that we should either keep them infrequent, or be able to turn them off.

That's probably why I said "but not obnoxious". I liked them mainly because it added more to the character. Even though Knuckles is rougher then the rest of them and tougher then leather, he can still get scared.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Apologies. I misunderstood and thought you meant it wasn't obnoxious in Heroes.

[Cakito]

2 hours ago, Blue Speedster said:

Its not even a continuation or sequel, as Iizuka stated this at E3 or Summer of Sonic. The inclusion of Classic Sonic when the launch trailer hit, people did think it was Generations 2. I think there will be a reason as to why Classic is back. the gameplay and style of levels needs to be the same, 1 act for each Sonic. That was really good in Generations

How would you all feel if Classic Sonic isn't actually a real sonic, but rather some kind of a Good Metal Sonic made by Tails or someone?

(This also makes me wonder about Metal Sonic being playable, since they said there won't be any character aside sonic being playable but still we have a 3rd gameplay style hidden in mystery. And, well, Metal Sonic is also Sonic, in a way...)

[FriendBot]

I think a good way to do ingame dialogue is to avoid making repeating dialogue about ingame mechanics like the Bounce Pad/"It's time to Speed/Power/Flight character to handle this".

If the dialogue involved more about their environments or banter between themselves, that would be more interesting.

Also another neat way to help increase the urgency of Forces' setup is to have the characters you're contacting urging Sonic to hurry up before the Death Egg Sentinels before they blow them up or something. 

Similar to what Eggman says during Crazy Gadget, I'd be down for that. 

Some small gameplay/story integrations would be swell!

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Soni said:

I think a good way to do ingame dialogue is to avoid making repeating dialogue about ingame mechanics like the Bounce Pad/"It's time to Speed/Power/Flight character to handle this".

If the dialogue involved more about their environments or banter between themselves, that would be more interesting.

Also another neat way to help increase the urgency of Forces' setup is to have the characters you're contacting urging Sonic to hurry up before the Death Egg Sentinels before they blow them up or something. 

Similar to what Eggman says during Crazy Gadget, I'd be down for that. 

Some small gameplay/story integrations would be swell!

There was also those PR announcements with Eggman in Colors. Those were great.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Christ, I was just gone for an hour...

Quote

No, I'm not. I specified before that just because those ""higher points"" were bad didn't mean everyone thought they were. I'm not contradicting anything. You're saying I'm agreeing with you because you're taking fragments of what I say that only exemplify the things I'm disagreeing with and presenting them as if they were all I had said.

Yes, you are. And it's funny, because you did just that when I clarified myself the first time and are going on a completely different tangent.

19 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

You said people treated the stories worse because the rest of the games in question were bad. That, by any logical thought, means that if the games were good, people would think the stories were better.

No, that doesn't mean if the games were good then the story is better. That's a black and white fallacy if there is one as games like Generations have shown that people will still call out a poor story even in good games. Like really, the stories in ShTH and Sonic 06 were considered bad. Yes, there are people out there that like them, but that doesn't change the general consensus, and even if their gameplay was good that wouldn't make the story any better. You even said that yourself, you then continued to repeat that, and then you discredited yourself by saying that there were people who would find certain aspects good, and not once did I ever make these implications for you to even bring them up in the first place.

So I'm sorry, but you are really just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

19 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Do you just not want to argue? Because the way to do that would be telling me you don't want to argue about this, not to just keep saying "strawman" until people think you're right. I have something that I disagreed with, relating to games I feel very strongly about. I care about what this conversation means, and if you don't, then just come out and say it, please.

It's less that I don't want to argue than it is I don't like my point twisted and minced into something else, particularly when the person I'm arguing with is essentially repeating just about the same thing I've already said and treating my point like it means something completely different just for the sake of arguing. Much less going on a different tangent, which is why I've been repeating myself to get back to the original point I made and keep it that way. It really stands out when you continue to pad this whole argument by bringing up youtube comments (of all things) and personal friends as if to discredit what I said, when that really doesn't change the general point I made from the beginning.

But as far as this whole thing goes, at this point don't want to argue. Not on this debacle--I want you to take my point for what it is, and not a single thing beyond that. Because the irony in my point was that it didn't counter your initial rebuttal from the get go.

EDIT--"Your point is wrong"...uh-huh, yeah, whatever dude. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Conquering Storm's Servant

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That's funny, because you did just that when I clarified myself the first time and are going on a completely different tangent.

No, that doesn't mean if the games were good then the story is better. That's a black and white fallacy if there is one as games like Generations have shown that people will still call out a poor story even in good games. Like really, the stories in ShTH and Sonic 06 were considered bad. Yes, there are people out there that like them, but that doesn't change the general consensus, and even if their gameplay was good that wouldn't make the story any better. You even said that yourself, you then continued to repeat that, and then you discredited yourself by saying that there were people who would find certain aspects good, and not once did I ever make these implications for you to even bring them up in the first place.

So I'm sorry, but you are really just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

It's less that I don't want to argue than it is I don't like my point twisted and minced into something else, particularly when the person I'm arguing with is essentially repeating just about the same thing I've already said and treating my point like it means something completely different just for the sake of arguing. Much less going on a different tangent, which is why I've been repeating myself to get back to the original point I made and keep it that way. It really stands out when you continue to pad this whole argument by bringing up youtube comments (of all things) and personal friends as if to discredit what I said, when that really doesn't change the general point I made from the beginning.

Christ, I was just gone for an hour...

That's funny, because you did just that when I clarified myself the first time and are going on a completely different tangent.

No, that doesn't mean if the games were good then the story is better. That's a black and white fallacy if there is one as games like Generations have shown that people will still call out a poor story even in good games. Like really, the stories in ShTH and Sonic 06 were considered bad. Yes, there are people out there that like them, but that doesn't change the general consensus, and even if their gameplay was good that wouldn't make the story any better. You even said that yourself, you then continued to repeat that, and then you discredited yourself by saying that there were people who would find certain aspects good, and not once did I ever make these implications for you to even bring them up in the first place.

So I'm sorry, but you are really just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

It's less that I don't want to argue than it is I don't like my point twisted and minced into something else, particularly when the person I'm arguing with is essentially repeating just about the same thing I've already said and treating my point like it means something completely different just for the sake of arguing. Much less going on a different tangent, which is why I've been repeating myself to get back to the original point I made and keep it that way. It really stands out when you continue to pad this whole argument by bringing up youtube comments (of all things) and personal friends as if to discredit what I said, when that really doesn't change the general point I made from the beginning.

Christ, I was just gone for an hour...

That's funny, because you did just that when I clarified myself the first time and are going on a completely different tangent.

No, that doesn't mean if the games were good then the story is better. That's a black and white fallacy if there is one as games like Generations have shown that people will still call out a poor story even in good games. Like really, the stories in ShTH and Sonic 06 were considered bad. Yes, there are people out there that like them, but that doesn't change the general consensus, and even if their gameplay was good that wouldn't make the story any better. You even said that yourself, you then continued to repeat that, and then you discredited yourself by saying that there were people who would find certain aspects good, and not once did I ever make these implications for you to even bring them up in the first place.

So I'm sorry, but you are really just arguing for the sake of arguing here.

It's less that I don't want to argue than it is I don't like my point twisted and minced into something else, particularly when the person I'm arguing with is essentially repeating just about the same thing I've already said and treating my point like it means something completely different just for the sake of arguing. Much less going on a different tangent, which is why I've been repeating myself to get back to the original point I made and keep it that way. It really stands out when you continue to pad this whole argument by bringing up youtube comments (of all things) and personal friends as if to discredit what I said, when that really doesn't change the general point I made from the beginning.

Can you, like, not do this please?

[Mark1]

TBH with you guys. While I am looking forward to this game, it's hard to fully get excited given when looking back to 1999 for the launch of Sonic Adventure, have we truly had a 3D Sonic title which can be considered great?

Sure I find Colours and especially Generations to be good games, but there's nothing substantial to make them comparable to the excitement and positivity of Sonic Mania, which is looking likely to be a very enjoyable experience, one which many feel confident enough to be a great title. 

Yeah, I know we haven't seen much of Forces yet, but have Sonic Team truly done enough to convince folk that they are capable of making a AAA quality title again? If this one surprises us all later this year then I'll be very pleased.

To clarify, this is not a hate post towards the 3D games, I'm just wanting to keep expectations in check. Colours and Generations were indeed fun games, but they feel like missed potential. I feel they could be so much better in many aspects.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

TBH with you guys, while I am looking forward to this game, it's hard to fully get excited given, when looking back to 1999 for the launch of Sonic Adventure, have we truly had a 3D Sonic title which can be considered great?

Depends on whether or not you're looking at it in hindsight. 

The Adventures were considered great right up until people considered they aged poorly, but that's something the more hardcore crowd makes a point about.

[Meta77]

Ive been hyped for every sonic game honestly. And I have enjoyed each in their own way. The only ones I honestly do not care for are colors and lost world. and ..........boom.

[Zaysho]

9 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

Can you, like, not do this please?

Can you, like, not backseat mod, please? If things are getting too heated, just let us know via reporting. Otherwise, just ignore the argument if you're not interested and move the topic along with a new line of conversation. Thanks!

[Mark1]

9 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Depends on whether or not you're looking at it in hindsight. 

The Adventures were considered great right up until people considered they aged poorly, but that's something the more hardcore crowd makes a point about.

Was thinking more at a point when Sonic games were up for game of the year again. Should've clarified that in my post before.  

Don't think the Adventure games ever got to that level? Happy to be proven wrong but don't remember it, especially when Mario 64 and Zelda OoT won a few awards following their releases.

Just when compared to other games like S3K (personal highlight so far - really want another Sonic game to top this one eventually) where it is compared to the better 2D Mario games by many online to this day.

[Cakito]

2 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

TBH with you guys, while I am looking forward to this game, it's hard to fully get excited given, when looking back to 1999 for the launch of Sonic Adventure, have we truly had a 3D Sonic title which can be considered great?

Sure I find Colours and especially Generations to be good games, but there's nothing substantial to make them comparable to the excitement and positivity of Sonic Mania, which is looking likely to be a very enjoyable experience, one which many feel confident enough to be a great title. 

Yeah, I know we haven't seen much of Forces yet, but have Sonic Team truly done enough to convince folk that they are capable of making a AAA quality title again? If this one surprises us all later this year then I'll be very pleased.

To clarify, this is not a hate post towards the 3D games, I'm just wanting to keep expectations in check. Colours and Generations were indeed fun games, but they feel like missed potential. I feel they could be so much better in many aspects.

Did you feel this way when you played it for the first time back when this games were launched?

Because in the time Colors launched, I remember liking the game so much. I even loved the (kinda) funny cinematics and all those 2D gameplay, that I, more than likely, hate now. Personally, I always love Sonic games at the first playthrough, and when discussing about them years later with someone, I start to see how the game could be much better.

I think our thoughs on how a sonic game should be changes with time. I'd hate a game in 2017 with the tone of Colors, for example. Forces is exactly (for now) all I want for a Sonic game in 2017, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure it won't be what I want in 2020. The point is, maybe we should remember how we feel when the game launches and how much we like it in the first playthrough, because you know what? This first feeling is what your real opinion on the game is. When we start arguing and discussing opinions here, our thoughs gets mixed with other people's thoughs... and... yeah  

[The Deleter]

Dunno what the full context of the current argument was, but Rise of Lyric's in-game dialog has been mentioned on the offhand, and welp, now I'm kinda hyped about how the "Radio Chatter" could turn out in this game, too. Huh.

 

The main problem people had with RoL's dialog was repeated "obvious" lines, which could end up being the case for Forces too, to be fair... *looks at Time Eater*

... But on the other hand, the whole system is based around "events around the world", which seems like it could be pretty divorced of even the possibility of that even happening. Key word being seems, of course..

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone disliked RoL's actual in-game conversations, did they? That was one of my favorite parts of the game, just for the sheer amount of character and levity they added to the game throughout. If this same aspect can be pulled off in this game with a decent enough script, we could have one of the most "fun" Sonic stories on our hands, imo, apart from the storybook games. Doubly so with the Chaotix involved, so I really hope they can pull off some good banter here.

Plus, it also reminds me of a certain PA system... Perhaps it could be making a comeback, too, just for the sake of it?

[JosepHenry]

.... As I was saying some replies ago...

I want interations like this:

In a cutscene. When Classic Sonic comes to the present, he could get lost and he smells Chili Dogs on Cream's house, she thinks that Classic Sonic is Sonic but different, and invites him, and he gladly accepts because Chili Dogs. Fun moments like that.

In the middle of first stage, Sonic's friends inform how is the state of the city, ask why things turned out like this, Sonic says to keep fighting, suddenly a Death Egg Robot Sentinel appears, Sonic loses contact with them, and he gets worried and he runs to help them. Done. No more talking until a cutscene appears.

I don't want Tails yelling that he is falling, or Sonic saying that a robot smashed a bush.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Cakito said:

The point is, maybe we should remember how we feel when the game launches and how much we like it in the first playthrough, because you know what? This first feeling is what your real opinion on the game is.

I don't agree with that. First impressions are worth paying attention to, sure, but the more refined opinions that come from more play, deeper analysis, and discussion with others are just as important, arguably moreso.

[FriendBot]

Having Classic Sonic in Cream's house during a time where Eggman's robots are destroying a city is a cutscene you don't want to have.

[JosepHenry]

I didn't say the placement of that scene!

It was example! Sonic Rush had a scene like that with Blaze.

[Cakito]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I don't agree with that. First impressions are worth paying attention to, sure, but the more refined opinions that come from more play, deeper analysis, and discussion with others are just as important, arguably moreso.

What I'm trying to say is, your first opinion and impression on the game is the basic for building a more evolved though about it. Everything that comes after it is just different shapes of that first opinion.

Sorry, english is not my first language, and sometimes I struggle to explain something that looks simple

[Kellan]

33 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

TBH with you guys. While I am looking forward to this game, it's hard to fully get excited given when looking back to 1999 for the launch of Sonic Adventure, have we truly had a 3D Sonic title which can be considered great?

Sure I find Colours and especially Generations to be good games, but there's nothing substantial to make them comparable to the excitement and positivity of Sonic Mania, which is looking likely to be a very enjoyable experience, one which many feel confident enough to be a great title. 

Yeah, I know we haven't seen much of Forces yet, but have Sonic Team truly done enough to convince folk that they are capable of making a AAA quality title again? If this one surprises us all later this year then I'll be very pleased.

To clarify, this is not a hate post towards the 3D games, I'm just wanting to keep expectations in check. Colours and Generations were indeed fun games, but they feel like missed potential. I feel they could be so much better in many aspects.

I'm sorry, but I don't know if I understand the point that you're making. Are you saying that I should be more excited for Mania than I am for Forces?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

23 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And it's funny, because you did just that when I clarified myself the first time and are going on a completely different tangent.

No I didn't. I was using the point you made to exemplify the problem in your logic, and you somehow managed to misinterpret that as me just saying it.

23 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

No, that doesn't mean if the games were good then the story is better. That's a black and white fallacy if there is one as games like Generations have shown that people will still call out a poor story even in good games. 

But it's not "black and white" at all when Generations' story is not half the travesty of Sonic 06 or Shadow. Stories are not simply the best or worst.

23 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Like really, the stories in ShTH and Sonic 06 were considered bad. Yes, there are people out there that like them, but that doesn't change the general consensus, and even if their gameplay was good that wouldn't make the story any better. You even said that yourself, you then continued to repeat that, and then you discredited yourself by saying that there were people who would find certain aspects good, and not once did I ever make these implications for you to even bring them up in the first place.

Yes, I said that, because it's true. Because again, I'm saying this is the idea you've been operating under, so that I could also say what you have repeatedly denied despite the logic involved. That if a game's quality affects people's impressions of the story of said game in one way (which it doesn't), the inverse should also be possible (which it would be, if the former were true). I've said that several times, and you've continued to repeatedly pull my vision of your logic out of context simply to suit your broken-ass """point""".

47 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

It's less that I don't want to argue than it is I don't like my point twisted and minced into something else

Okay, your point was that the consumer's impression of the story of those games was made worse by the gameplay. I said that the stories were that bad from the start, and I have continued to say that as you continue to fill your posts with buzzwords and projection instead of actual argument, only to act like I'm the ""strawman"" for not agreeing.

38 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I want you to take my point for what it is, and not a single thing beyond that.

Okay. Your point is wrong. How about that?

 

[The Deleter]

Eh, exposition is something I'd expect to be used the most often in a system like this, to the same "obvious" degrees "Bounce pad!" and "Look at all those Eggman robots!" could be. It's not as annoying, no, but it is relatively dull for what it is. Something with a bit more effort and character would be preferable to that alone.

 

... Though, I just realized that may just feel artificial and "Pontaff"-ish here, considering the circumstances. Destroyed cities and solitary stages, probably better suited towards as low-key dialog as possible. Hm.

Probably a better case for this system, would be where the characters were actually side-by-side, fighting as companions rather than commenting as side-characters.

.....

 

[blazefan519]

56 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

 

Probably a better case for this system, would be where the characters were actually side-by-side, fighting as companions rather than commenting as side-characters.

.....

 

Soooooooooo, Heroes then?

[Cakito]

I really don't mind that the other characters are NPCs. I just wanna feel them in the game, you know? Sonic Team can do that in so many ways... for example, imagine if the gun shooting at the Death Egg in the beggining of the level was actually Tails flying around with the Tornado attacking the giant robot?

*radio static*

"Sonic, I'm slowing him down! But I can't hold it for too long! You got to HURRY UP!"

 

Or if a giant piece of shit  a broken building is coming at full speed at sonic's head, but Shadow appears jumping and screaming "CHAOS BLAST!", resulting in the thing to crash and save the blue?

[Joellui]

5 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

Soooooooooo, Heroes then?

 Or, or make it more like Shadow the Hedgehog? Something like you don't necessarily control them (although you could've of you had a second controller), but they're doing something along side you. 

Cause even though you couldn't play SHTH side characters, it was at least nice to know that they were besides you DOING SOMETHING.

Or maybe I'm making my old 11 year old fantasies run a muck.