Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[MegasonicZX]

I'm excited for both games but I'm leaning more on forces if only because with mania, as much new as it does, is kind of a "been there done that" type of deal. Like, I love the classic games but I'm always more interested in what the 3D games are doing BECAUSE its something that we still haven't nailed completely yet and it makes me intrigued to see where sonic team goes with whatever new engine or gameplay mechanic they decide on. Of course it helps that I'm a pretty big fan of most of the 3D titles anyway but I think even discounting that I'd still feel the same way and I feel like sonic has a whole lot more untapped potential in the 3-dimensional plane compared to a 2D one.

[Maxtiis]

Is it possible to suffer from Sonic withdrawal because at this point I'm just excited for both of them. I didn't bother with Sonic Boom so the last new Sonic I've played was Lost World back in 2013 and it's been a long wait for the next (what I would consider) genuine Sonic game.

Sonic Generations was such a great game and while I had my fun with Lost World (even getting S-Ranks on all the time attacks which was quite difficult) it was slightly disappointing to see them take a formula I thought was really shining and toss it aside for parkour gameplay. So its nice to see them go back to some consistency with this franchise which it definitely needs.

And its not like they can't provide a new experience with an older style of play so I'm interested in seeing what they do with it. That flip-jump Sonic performed in the gameplay trailer seems indicative that they're going to provide just enough new mechanics to the boost formula, so that the game doesn't feel like they just copy and pasted Generations' gameplay on a new graphics engine (which looks gorgeous). Whatever they do with Classic Sonic will likely be great at its best and relatively harmless at worst, but I'm betting that the enjoyment many will get from this game banks on that currently unknown gameplay component. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm more interested in Forces than Mania mainly because of the potentially meatier story and more intense narrative. That and I want it to be successful so that it diminishes this whole "Sonic can't be dark" nonsense that seems to have picked up pace since Pontaff got their start in Colors/Generations, and I want to see if they might prove us wrong actually change things up here given what they've experimented with in Lost Worlds.

It doesn't help that because Mania is far from looking anything bad, it's rather predictable by comparison in what it's going to do, so there's not much of a surprise or anything new for me to be on edge for.

[RictalRose0]

I still wonder, does Mania actually have a story with like cutscenes and stuff like Sonic 3 & Knuckles did or is just gonna be a compilation of levels?

[JezMM]

It's a weird case where I know I'll be more hyped for Forces when it arrives, while Mania will just be like sitting down to something nice and new but warm and familiar with no major expectations to be blown away.  In the meantime though I feel Forces has greater scope to disappoint me if the modern Sonic stuff is like Colours or there's not a huge amount of it or the story isn't as cool as it looks to be etc and doesn't have any development (like, Unleashed style where the story just kinda stops after the first few levels with no major developments until the finale).

So I feel Mania is less hype but therefore more likely to be able to surprise me, Force is more hype but could be a letdown if it FAILS to surprise me with better form than previous games.

Just now, RictalRose0 said:

I still wonder, does Mania actually have a story with like cutscenes and stuff like Sonic 3 & Knuckles did or is just gonna be a compilation of levels?

They've confirmed multiple times that it will have a story and zone transitions comparable to how S3&K handled it's story.

[RictalRose0]

Well that's a relief. Now i'm a little more excited for Mania.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Sonic Team have a notorious history of; adding questionable game design decisions, subpar to outright horrendous writing, being horribly out of touch with their fanbase and misconstruing feedback on games, and just being schizophrenic with running the franchise in general. And this has been going for over a decade. You need to realize there's a good reason why people have kind of lost faith in them and why some people are not exactly jumping for joy at this game.

Mania by contrast, is run by a group have nothing but a good track record and their only claim to fame are just updating a few games that have already been out. But ya know what, none of their attempts are actually bad and they actually communicate with fans. There's no reason to be skeptical of Mania, there's a plenty of reasons to be skeptical of Forces however.

Pretty hard to make an appealing game for the West when you're isolated on a tiny island in the Eastern region of the world with a company that surrounds your division with barriers and chains from start to finish on every project with a collar and leash on every neck yanking folks this way and that.

I have spite toward Sonic Team but also extraordinary pity.

[Kuzu]

I'm more excited for Mania mainly because I know exactly what I'm getting from it, and while it might disappoint in a few areas, I know I'll walk away with a solid experience at least.

 

I'm less hyped for Forces for much of the same reason hilariously. I have an idea on what to expect and I'm not really excited.

 

Part of me hopes to be proven wrong on Forces, but my jaded mind won't let me lol.

 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

 

[RictalRose0]

What you're implying that because they're in Japan they don't know how to make games? As opposed to Sega of America that hasn't made a game since what, Sonic Spinball? As in Sega of America that is nothing but executives and PR people? Hell isn't Mania being produced by a young japanese woman? 

It's more likely that lizuka is just not very good at directing dude. He's the one that was all "Let's hire these two guys that have no experience working on videogames other that MaddWorld to write our games aimed at children, also let's simplify the stories and gameplay as much as we can because children can't handle any more that baby level storytelling and let's 100% submit and do whatever reviewers tell us to do". I know lizuka has been a part of Sonic Team for a long time but I honestly never considered him that great, and as the years go by his vision just doesn't seem as appealing. To judge all of Sonic Team based on a few people is a mistake. And to judge them based on the fact that they are japanese is quite ridiculous and borderline racist tbh.

Besides, I don't think lizuka will have that much involvement with Sonic Forces.

[Lucid Dream]

21 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

What you're implying that because they're in Japan they don't know how to make games? As opposed to Sega of America that hasn't made a game since what, Sonic Spinball? As in Sega of America that is nothing but executives and PR people? Hell isn't Mania being produced by a young japanese woman? 

It's more likely that lizuka is just not very good at directing dude. He's the one that was all "Let's hire these two guys that have no experience working on videogames other that MaddWorld to write our games aimed at children, also let's simplify the stories and gameplay as much as we can because children can't handle any more that baby level storytelling and let's 100% submit and do whatever reviewers tell us to do". I know lizuka has been a part of Sonic Team for a long time but I honestly never considered him that great, and as the years go by his vision just doesn't seem as appealing. To judge all of Sonic Team based on a few people is a mistake. And to judge them based on the fact that they are japanese is quite ridiculous and borderline racist tbh.

Besides, I don't think lizuka will have that much involvement with Sonic Forces.

I don't think the point is that Japan is bad at making games (I sincerely doubt anybody could even dare think that with Nintendo around). Rather, it's that it could be harder for a Japanese based company to make a game appealing to the west when Japanese and Western cultures and interests in games are so different. I'd disagree to some degree anyway, considering Sonic isn't some anime styled game and platforming is a pretty universally popular genre. But either way, I really doubt the sentiment here is racist. 

I think it's a bit unfair to be so critical of Sega for hiring Pontac and Graff. They are professional freelance writers, who have written moderately successful shows and have some involvement with writing stories for games. I don't blame Sonic Team for thinking that they might be well fitted for Sonic. They should have had kept much closer tabs on Pontac and Graff to make sure they did their research, but that's pretty hard when you're so far away, not familiar with English and have some faith in professionals. 

On that note, has Pontac and Graff been confirmed to be working on Sonic Forces? 

[blazefan519]

5 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

. On that note, has Pontac and Graff been confirmed to be working on Sonic Forces? 

Nope, and hopefully it stays that way.

[RictalRose0]

I don't lie all the blame on Graff and Pontac. Sega should have coached them, provided them with extesive research. But the way they tell it it's like they handed them a few documents and they had to make do on their own. I'm not saying they are bad writers, the rest of the cartoons they have written are of a decent quality. It's just what with Happy Tree Friends under their belt, what made Sega think "Yes, these guys are a good fit for the cutesy furry creatures videogame"? Sometimes I think they just did it because they were already under contract to write games for Sega because they did MaddWorld first and had contracts to fullfill.

[Wraith]

I hope they get new writers. I can't think of anyone from the past Sonic games that I want back.

[KHCast]

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

I hope they get new writers. I can't think of anyone from the past Sonic games that I want back.

Who wrote Unleashed and Black Knights stories?

[Milo]

Something that has been really been bothering me about Forces since its reveal is how, yet again, Sonic Team still isn't content with just focusing on making a new game and having it sell itself on those merits. If Forces was just a "no strings attached" refined boost game, I'd have much more confidence in Sonic Team having learned some real lessons in cultivating a franchise / playstyle and Forces actually surpassing the trend of being an "good enough" or "almost good" Sonic game. But the fact they're still tossing in not just classic Sonic, but a third new gameplay style, as well as adding Wisps into the mix once again, really doesn't tell me that they have any confidence whatsoever in any of the gameplay styles they can use to make a game. They can't just focus on making just a good Sonic game with whatever playstyle they have, they have to throw in other elements / gimmicks to pad out the game and/or use for marketing points.

Boost gameplay is introduced with Unleashed, where it ends up having to share half of the gameplay with the God of War-cloned Werehog playstyle. Next comes Colors, which doesn't have anything as drastic, but the the larger focus on 2D puzzle / precision platforming and power-ups through the Wisps clashes with the boost's focus on consistently fast speed, so boost gameplay is significantly downplayed with that title. Then comes Generations, another title in which the gameplay focus is split in half between boost gameplay with a different playstyle; though this time, what they have --classic Sonic-- considered good by many people, if far from perfect in terms of what it's supposed to be replicating. Only for that title to be followed by Lost World, which throws out the boost gameplay entirely for a new playstyle and gets criticized for it, prompting Sonic Team to return to it with Forces...and even then, it's not like Lost World itself was a straightforward product in its game focus (parkour mechanics, motion-controlled Wisps, new HA moves, 3D planetoid levels, 3D tube levels, 2D precision platforming, one-off gimmick levels like the snowball, et al.)

For contrast's sake--despite being a way smaller team and having less resources to work with, Taxman and co. aren't showing any doubts on what they want Mania to be. They know the game they want to make, and the (new) ideas they're coming up with for that game aren't being implemented in a manner that works against the playstyle they've chosen, and/or muddles up the game focus. Compared to Forces, that title looks like a Sonic game that will actually sell itself on gameplay for once, rather than fireworks.

[RictalRose0]

What you think Yuji Naka and Shiro Maekawa aren't good writers? 

[Kintor]

2 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I'm more interested in Forces than Mania mainly because of the potentially meatier story and more intense narrative. That and I want it to be successful so that it diminishes this whole "Sonic can't be dark" nonsense that seems to have picked up pace since Pontaff got their start in Colors/Generations, and I want to see if they might prove us wrong actually change things up here given what they've experimented with in Lost Worlds.

It doesn't help that because Mania is far from looking anything bad, it's rather predictable by comparison in what it's going to do, so there's not much of a surprise or anything new for me to be on edge for.

I agree, while I'm extremely hyped for both games I think that Sonic Forces has the greatest potentially for the franchise in the long run. Sonic games have evolved considerably since the 16-bit, always tacking advantage of new technologies as they are developed. I want to see that continue into the future. As much as I respect Sonic Mania as a game it can't be the entire of the Sonic franchise. At this point, sticking to only 2D 'retro-rival' games would be a retreat, a squandering of the Sonic franchise's true potential and a diminishment of everything Sonic Team has sought to achieve since the release of Sonic Adventure in 1998. Fortunately with Sonic Forces there's a chance to move past the mistakes of recent years and allow the scope of 3D Sonic games to expand again.

5 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

I don't lie all the blame on Graff and Pontac. Sega should have coached them, provided them with extesive research. But the way they tell it it's like they handed them a few documents and they had to make do on their own. I'm not saying they are bad writers, the rest of the cartoons they have written are of a decent quality. It's just what with Happy Tree Friends under their belt, what made Sega think "Yes, these guys are a good fit for the cutesy furry creatures videogame"? Sometimes I think they just did it because they were already under contract to write games for Sega because they did MaddWorld first and had contracts to fullfill.

To be fair I think that Graff and Pontac did fairly well with MadWorld, their sarcastic writing style worked quite well with the absurd and ultra-violent setting. So it's understandable why Sega would give these guys additionally work, they managed to successfully prove themselves as video game writers. Yet time and again Graff and Pontac have absolutely screwed-up writing Sonic games. It's hard to say exactly what wrong with Graff and Pontac but their writing on Sonic games has been pretty dull and lifeless, they still have the sarcastic wit but the jokes just fall flat and they can't convene the serious drama that is always part of Sonic games. Basically, what I'm getting at is that Graff and Pontac can't write anything outside of their niche and they have no one to blame but themselves for that.

[blazefan519]

10 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Who wrote Unleashed and Black Knights stories?

Sayako Yoshimura was the writer for Unleashed, but I don't know who wrote Black Knight.

EDIT: Shiro Maekawa wrote Black Knight

[Indigo Rush]

5 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

What you think Yuji Naka and Shiro Maekawa aren't good writers? 

Yuji Naka isn't a writer at all, with the exception of writing code :V  He's never written a story for a game, where the heck did you get that idea from?

[RictalRose0]

Well yeah. But I always got the feeling he gave some of his personal touch to the games. But what about Maekawa? He's a good writer, that's what I think at least.

Also wikipedia lists Maekawa as the writer of Black Knight but I wouldn't call that a reliable source.

[Adamabba]

I don't know who wrote Sonic Battle, but I love their work in that game. It had some great character interactions I'd love to see in here.

[KHCast]

5 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

Sayako Yoshimura was the writer for Unleashed, but I don't know who wrote Black Knight.

EDIT: Shiro Maekawa wrote Black Knight

I wouldn't mind if either of those guys were in charge of this games story. Both those Sonic stories were pretty decent and developed 

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

Kiyoko Yoshimura was the writer for Unleashed, but I don't know who wrote Black Knight.

Fixed. Worth noting she was a writer for Sonic X as well.

I've heard Maekawa was the writer for Black Knight, but I've no idea if that was ever confirmed. As far as I know, neither of the Storybooks actually have proper story/scenario/script credits (Maekawa is credited as a game designer for Secret Rings). I'd honestly believe the writer for Sonic Adventure, Akinori Nishiyama (who is credited as the Chief Producer for both games) based on the characterizations alone.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

Fixed. Worth noting she was a writer for Sonic X as well.

I've heard Maekawa was the writer for Black Knight, but I've no idea if that was ever confirmed. As far as I know, neither of the Storybooks actually have proper story/scenario/script credits (Maekawa is credited as a game designer for Secret Rings). I'd honestly believe the writer for Sonic Adventure, Akinori Nishiyama (who is credited as the Chief Producer for both games) based on the characterizations alone.

This was all taken from the Sonic Wiki so it could very well be wrong, either way, who ever was the writers of those two games, I'd like for them to write Forces.

[RictalRose0]

The credits for Sonic games are kinda weird you know? Free Riders doesn't even lists writers, just "Scenenario Writer" whatever that means. And the Sonic Wiki says Pontaff wrote that one. But again, that ain't a reliable source.