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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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4 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Sonic games have evolved considerably since the 16-bit, always tacking advantage of new technologies as they are developed. I want to see that continue into the future.

Same but that's (one reason) why I have no faith in Forces. Thus far it's not doing anything to move Sonic forward, it's just spinning its wheels with the same shallow, mediocre gameplay it came up with 8 or so years ago. Fancier reflections and more particle effects don't change that the substance of the big reveal was nothing but a hallway with dash pads, boost fuel, and homing attack targets.

Mania may not be breaking new ground either, but it's actually working from good, solid principles, after the series had long ago abandoned them. Ideally it'll kick off a line of games that can finally expand on those principles, or at least light a fire under Sonic Team's ass and get them trying to make something worthwhile.

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5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The Boost can't not be overpowered...the only they can do is limit the gain or make it drain faster.

 

Of course they can find a way, what kind of statement is that? 

All they have to do is think and GET CREATIVE !!!

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That's easy to say whe the mania team already has something to work with. They are not exactly coming up with something that hasn't been seen before, rather refining that which wasn't perfected back then.

And I seriously doubt Sonic Team will notice much of Mania, seeing as how Taxman and friends are working on America far away from them and seemingly their only supervision is Lola Shiraishi and probably Webber and co. 

You know what would be kinda funny? If Sega decided that 2D retro-pandering is indeed the way of Sonic, and decided to make it all mobile oriented. Because you know, mobile is the future of gaming and all that (Hey, Konami moved on from making Metal Gear and Silent Hill to making Gambling App Games, it's not that farfetched lmao)

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Ideally, bring the Genesis gameplay into 3D, something along the lines of Sonic Utopia. Though at this point "anything but boost" would be an improvement.

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Do you really think Sonic Utopia would work that well as a full game? I admit, I like what I see and I like to think of a full open world Sonic game but it's rather complicated for me to imagine how that could be done. Honestly, just allow the player more freedom to control their movement and make the levels more explorable. That's not something unrealistic and vague. That's something that could be done.

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1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

Do you really think Sonic Utopia would work that well as a full game? I admit, I like what I see and I like to think of a full open world Sonic game but it's rather complicated for me to imagine how that could be done. Honestly, just allow the player more freedom to control their movement and make the levels more explorable. That's not something unrealistic and vague. That's something that could be done.

It's not being an open world game that I'm interested in. Utopia isn't even really open world anyway, its one demo level has a defined beginning and end, but it is too sprawling for a proper game. It's the mechanics and the freedom to use them that I'm actually interested in. And that's what we're never going to get so long as Sonic Team thinks boosting down hallways is the best way to do 3D Sonic.

 

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It's the only thing we're ever gonna get as long as the public in general and proffesional reviewers and magazines keep saying that's the direction they should take. A sad thing indeed but that's how it is.

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9 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

OK, I think it's about time for us to all move on from the Black Knight debate considering it has virtually nothing to do with Sonic Forces. There are plenty of other places on the forum where you can carry on this discussion if you so please.

That can be on me. i was quoting someone and used Black Knight for my example.  I'm sorry

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Lets dig into this...

2:22 - 2:36

Sonic Adventure callback, not bad.

2:44 - 2:50

Even when he's not boosting Sonic is incredibly stiff/motionless/generic save leg movement.

3:34 - 4:04

They try, they try so hard. Even mentioning the sidewalk space. Admit it, the game is narrow. They also mention rings not being on every lane, then cut to a part where there's more rings in the lanes... Kinda funny.

4:07 - 4:33

They start getting confused about the direction Sonic Team is going for with the city. Mentioning vegetation everywhere yet electricity showing, confused over how long Eggman has been in charge, etc. In the end they just say it probably doesn't matter. Kind of chuckled at that.

5:31 - 5:47

The shots being fired at the Death Egg's don't even make contact. They just appear then vanish. Cheap. They could at least animate the shots to show each impacting the robots. Looking at them like this all the shots fizzle out before hitting the robots.

6:34 - 6:40

Pooka got an upgrade. That or he nailed Eva from Wall-E and we got robot babies goin' on.

pooka_by_dillanmurillo-d93wkp2.png

They also point out how the enemies aren't any more difficult now than before. Who here thinks that's a plus? Raise hands anyone?

7:34 - 7:58

Even the homing attack animation, sides a tiny squash effect, and the animation for when you hit an enemy is stiff/awkward too. Why can't we get CD animation going on in a 3D game to give Sonic more character? They try with the flip they have Sonic do.

8:29 - 8:40

A few months left until release and the impact/contact programming is still wonky. Randomly breaking objects and clipping enemies. Though they try to think up a reason for it.

9:00 - 9:11

Delayed swing reaction from Sonic snatching the zip-line handle. He just grabs it in a frozen stance thing swings a moment later. Then another awkward/stiff animation of Sonic flipping off the line. (Though in its defense in Mania when Sonic releases a zip-line he's frozen/awkward there too)

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3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Lets dig into this...

2:22 - 2:36

Sonic Adventure callback, not bad.

2:44 - 2:50

Even when he's not boosting Sonic is incredibly stiff/motionless/generic save leg movement.

3:34 - 4:04

They try, they try so hard. Even mentioning the sidewalk space. Admit it, the game is narrow. They also mention rings not being on every lane, then cut to a part where there's more rings in the lanes... Kinda funny.

4:07 - 4:33

They start getting confused about the direction Sonic Team is going for with the city. Mentioning vegetation everywhere yet electricity showing, confused over how long Eggman has been in charge, etc. In the end they just say it probably doesn't matter. Kind of chuckled at that.

5:31 - 5:47

The shots being fired at the Death Egg's don't even make contact. They just appear then vanish. Cheap. They could at least animate the shots to show each impacting the robots. Looking at them like this all the shots fizzle out before hitting the robots.

6:34 - 6:40

Pooka got an upgrade. That or he nailed Eva from Wall-E and we got robot babies goin' on.

pooka_by_dillanmurillo-d93wkp2.png

They also point out how the enemies aren't any more difficult now than before. Who here thinks that's a plus? Raise hands anyone?

7:34 - 7:58

Even the homing attack animation, sides a tiny squash effect, and the animation for when you hit an enemy is stiff/awkward too. Why can't we get CD animation going on in a 3D game to give Sonic more character? They try with the flip they have Sonic do.

8:29 - 8:40

A few months left until release and the impact/contact programming is still wonky. Randomly breaking objects and clipping enemies. Though they try to think up a reason for it.

9:00 - 9:11

Delayed swing reaction from Sonic snatching the zip-line handle. He just grabs it in a frozen stance thing swings a moment later. Then another awkward/stiff animation of Sonic flipping off the line. (Though in its defense in Mania when Sonic releases a zip-line he's frozen/awkward there too)

All this from the 30 seconds of gameplay shown off from  Aaron. Impressive, really

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Though at this point "anything but boost" would be an improvement.

Are you absolutely sure about that, Dio?

Nah man, I'm being facetious. You know I fully agree with you that the boost needs to go. It was fun when it was something new, perhaps because of the sheer novelty of it and the fact that we finally had a 3D Sonic style that was actually functional. But now, it's becoming abundantly clear to more and more people both within and outside the immediate fanbase that it's actually not that great. While boosting was largely lauded by both critics and fans in Unleashed, Colours and Generations, it's getting noticeably less interest this time around. Now that we're all used to it and are no longer surprised that a new, 3D Sonic game doesn't have to be 100% awful, the boost has lost its allure. I've been saying it for years - Colours is the worst "good" Sonic game. The whole reason it got so much praise wasn't because it was particularly good, it's just that it wasn't particularly bad. 

I can still enjoy the boost gameplay. I'll boot up Generations every now and then and get a kick blasting through all nine of the Modern acts in under half an hour (cause holy crap the boost levels are so short considering how physically huge they are). I'd rather go back to the Classic levels though. Flawed though they are on so many, many different levels, the gameplay is more interactive and open to variation. You don't really get much choice with the boost levels. You do exactly what the levels tell you to do and watch as it plays itself over half the time.

With Forces, I'm hoping that they'll have considered their approach to the Modern Sonic levels enough that I feel more involved and am not just going through the motions until I get to the boost corridor for a fix of speed. The gameplay clip doesn't suggest that at all yet. Maybe other levels will, but I'm not expecting it. Honestly, it's just highly disappointing that Sonic Team are falling back on a so-so idea that they can pull off to an acceptable level rather than striving for anything great. The Classic acts are going to be much more my cup of tea, I'm sure (though they still suffer from not being much better than "adequate"). This "third element" that's being added is absolutely something that's piquing my interest, though.

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5 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Are you absolutely sure about that, Dio?

Honestly, even after all I've heard about the game, I imagine I'd have more fun with Lost World 3DS than I would with another boost game.

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I understand why people don't like the boost formula or got tired of it, but I also understand why Sonic Team is still using it.

Sonic Utopia is great. Has great controls and physics for a 3D Sonic game, however, it relies too much on precision. When I'm going in a ramp, I have to make sure I don't fall or else I have to go back running in a flat ground to find a way to return from where I was. Is rewarding when you get everything right, but the process to it is not exactly fast.  The classic 2D games didn't need that. You can go through loops with no fear of falling to the side. And if you didn't had enough speed, you could just do a Spin Dash and problem solved. I think that there are some moments where Utopia should be automated, to emulate the classics well in 3D.

The boost formula is a straight line where you run fast all the time, with no danger of falling down. It removes freedom for sure, but I can see why Sonic Team is still using it, since speed is one of Sonic's main characteristics. And having more freedom can sacrifice some of the speed. I think that is hard to have a balance of both speed and platforming in 3D. Does anyone have any idea how to do that? What do you think Sonic Team should do?

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The boost was used for the Hedgehog Engine in Unleashed and was super fun to use. In colors, boost was used in the form of whisps due to the Wii not being as powerful.

If you have a look when Sonic boosts in that clip, its more like a mix of colors and unleashed. not the same, but similar, plus an updated engine might make his initial speed like it was in Adventure 2 so its not used all the time

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5 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Sonic Utopia is great. Has great controls and physics for a 3D Sonic game, however, it relies too much on precision. When I'm going in a ramp, I have to make sure I don't fall or else I have to go back running in a flat ground to find a way to return from where I was. Is rewarding when you get everything right, but the process to it is not exactly fast.

So you put some guardrails on it, and design the level to mostly keep you moving even when you miss a ramp or a jump.

5 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

In the boost formula is a straight line where you run fast all the time, with no danger of falling down. It removes freedom for sure, but I can see why Sonic Team is still using it, since speed is one of Sonic's main characteristics. And having more freedom can sacrifice some of the speed. I think that is hard to have a balance of both speed and platforming in 3D. Does anyone have any idea how to do that? What do you think Sonic Team should do?

Yeah the solution is to look at things like the Genesis games and Utopia, where gaining and maintaining speed is more of a skill-based element of the gameplay, and not just pressing a button and watching him go.

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I understand most people don't like the boost but I hope they don't get rid of it. I know it's not a good mechanic but it's just so darn fun

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I just feel that the Rush games made the Boost a lot more enjoyable so unless Sonic Team makes the Boost more like Rush or like the Boost Mode in Advance 2/3. I'd prefer to not have the Boost as the main gameplay style for Modern Sonic games.

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2 minutes ago, Soni said:

I just feel that the Rush games made the Boost a lot more enjoyable so unless Sonic Team makes the Boost more like Rush or like the Boost Mode in Advance 2/3. I'd prefer to not have the Boost as the main gameplay style for Modern Sonic games.

So...

Boost in 2D = good and Boost in 3D = bad is your point? If so I agree as I enjoyed the precursor of it in Sonic Advance 2 and the evolution of it in the Rush games.

As a 2D style of game play I say it's pretty fun but it does not translate well into 3D whatsoever asides making a game that's a movie more than a game. You watch what's going on around you, invinca-plow through enemies, goal, game over.

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38 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly, even after all I've heard about the game, I imagine I'd have more fun with Lost World 3DS than I would with another boost game.

 
 
 

Boy, you need to try it for yourself. At the best of times, which is just literally the tutorial act and the first act of Windy Hill, it's playable. Beyond that, it's such an extravagant mess of the most slippery controls, Sonic 4 physics, "defeat X enemies to progress" rooms, copious forced Wisp usage and the most bullshit gimmicks imaginable that I honestly can't believe that anyone can like it. 

You know how with boosting you could at least say the spectacle on screen looks nice, even if the gameplay is a basically just holding the fast-forward button on a VCR? Lost World 3DS is like trying to figure how to set up the VCR whilst blindfolded and someone punching you in the face every five seconds. Forces probably isn't going to be that bad.

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24 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly, even after all I've heard about the game, I imagine I'd have more fun with Lost World 3DS than I would with another boost game.

no you wouldn't

trust me

I've been down this path

Y'know honestly while I still do love the Boost games, there's not much you can do with it, I'll admit. I like it's kind of racetrack feel, but there aren't a lot of paths to take, it seems. Although there were a few stages in Unleashed that had areas I'd completely overlooked and didn't find until years later. I hope we get some more of those.

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3 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Is there a level in a 3D game that came close to something good?

Yeah, the beta version of Windy Valley was surprisingly good considering the limitations of the engine.

It's all been downhill from there. And not in the good way.

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2 hours ago, Cakito said:

Of course they can find a way, what kind of statement is that? 

All they have to do is think and GET CREATIVE !!!

Using the boost in creative ways has nothing to do with making it less over powered...

 

They can make it NOT invincible and stop placing enemies in the straight-aways, but what's that gonna do overall? Pretty much nothing.

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