Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Cakito]

Just now, StaticMania said:

Using the boost in creative ways has nothing to do with making it less over powered...

 

They can make it NOT invincible and stop placing enemies in the straight-aways, but what's that gonna do overall? Pretty much nothing.

Using the boost in creative ways has nothing to do with making it less over powered...

 

They can make it NOT invincible and stop placing enemies in the straight-aways, but what's that gonna do overall? Pretty much nothing.

I am not talking about making creative ways of using the boost, but creative ways to change the boost in a way that is fun and still challenging to play.

[Blue Blood]

18 minutes ago, Soni said:

I just feel that the Rush games made the Boost a lot more enjoyable so unless Sonic Team makes the Boost more like Rush or like the Boost Mode in Advance 2/3. I'd prefer to not have the Boost as the main gameplay style for Modern Sonic games.

 

 

Boosting in the 3D games is only superficially like boosting in Rush. Rush gives you complete control over Sonic's direction, whether he's on the ground or in the air. Sonic feels natural to move. And however many boosters and springs there may be, it's rarely actually scripted. Plus you have the under-appreciated trick system, which has you mashing buttons to get the ability to keep your speed and using your one-off directional tricks to make split-second decisions that will lead to new paths, keeping your pace or slowing down. Sonic Rush actually lives up to its name - it gives you a rush.

Unleashed and subsequent games make the boost into an auto-play button. If you can boost in any part of a level, you should. Not doing so will rarely have any positive effects. You'll just go slower and obstacles suddenly matter again. It's like, why even bother not boosting? I'm seeing this exact same poor design in Forces so far. If the game looked like it was actually going to play like Rush, I'd be stoked.

[JosepHenry]

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, the beta version of Windy Valley was surprisingly good considering the limitations of the engine.

It's all been downhill from there. And not in the good way.

Wow, sad that it has been removed from the final game. From what I saw it looks way more fun than the final version.

But I have seen some people saying that it was very confusing and disorienting, and they prefer the final version because of that. Thoughts?

[FriendBot]

To be honest, yeah. The Boost gameplay just doesn't work as well in 3D as it does in 2D, it especially doesn't help that Sonic Team can't make a game solely on that gameplay STILL yet Dimps can do it just fine.

I know the reason why SEGA might've "discontinued" the Rush series since Rush Adventure bombed but honestly, the Rush series are easily the best Boost games in my eyes. It was pretty much at its peak with Rush Adventure, the Trick Combos to add more Boost energy; each stage having a unique in-level mechanic to make it stand out from another and various other improvements from Rush.

I mean, the most fun in the main titles when it comes to Boost was in Unleashed's Daytime Stages. I guess it helps that they were fairly challenging if you aren't good on your hand-eye coordination but if it's going to be a simple-designed, fast-paced thrill ride, make it challenging enough so I'm relatively engaged.

While Generations' Modern stages had some improvements in certain aspects, those stages were just way too easy that I just stopped caring and just went with the flow. It's been a while since I've played Colors but I have a hunch I wouldn't be all for it either.

So I really hope that if Forces' Modern Sonic gameplay isn't going to make a whole lot of improvements, atleast make it about as challenging as Unleashed's Daytime Stages.

I just hope whatever the third gameplay style is and it's turns to be really good, I'd be down if THAT becomes the mainstay formula for Modern Sonic. And if people want the Boost, just continue the Rush games. Dimps can probably make a more engaging 3D Boost game than Sonic Team.

AlsoIreallylikeLostWorld3DS

[Blue Speedster]

Sonic Team also worked on Advance and Rush alongside Dimps with the mechanics of the games. The boost mechanic in Forces might well be like those games, as there was only a 30 second clip with it shown, guys. Aaron and SEGA will give more details down the line.

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Cakito said:

I am not talking about making creative ways of using the boost, but creative ways to change the boost in a way that is fun and still challenging to play.

Take away it's invincibility, make it run out faster, limit it's supply, or make its gauge segmented like in Unleashed Wii...there's nothing creative about either of these, but they're still options. 

 

The only creative things they can do with it is how you activate it and how you earn it...but I think people would rather keep it simple.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Wow, sad that it has been removed from the final game. From what I saw it looks way more fun than the final version.

But I have seen some people saying that it was very confusing and disorienting, and they prefer the final version because of that. Thoughts?

There's a few brief points where it might not be immediately obvious where you're supposed to go, but they're more than outweighed by the rest of the level design. It actually uses non-scripted wallrunning for shortcuts and has at least one spot where you can roll downhill to build speed and ramp up to a higher platform. It's like they actually understood how to make a Sonic game for a little while.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There's a few brief points where it might not be immediately obvious where you're supposed to go, but they're more than outweighed by the rest of the level design. It actually uses non-scripted wallrunning for shortcuts and has at least one spot where you can roll downhill to build speed and ramp up to a higher platform. It's like they actually understood how to make a Sonic game for a little while.

Sonic Adventure already used non-scripted wall running...it along with the control are the reasons some people don't really like Green Forest's half-pipe sections.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Sonic Adventure already used non-scripted wall running...it along with the control are the reasons some people don't really like Green Forest's half-pipe sections.

It was rarely used and even in the best of cases it tended to be very telegraphed and often aided by dash pads. Beta Windy Valley actually had it integrated into the level design naturally, offering opportunities if you were willing to look. Like, check this out (10:23):

3D Sonic games have rarely had the sensibility to do something so simple and so purely "Sonic" as that. And that's not even the best wallrun spot in the level, the best one is the one he starts at 11:40. That's sublime Sonic level design.

 

 

[Potada]

 

So, I've been reading through this topic for a while and saw everyone's opinions on the Boost. This reminded me of something I tried a long time ago and so I decided I'd... "Issue a challenge" so to speak for any and all Sonic Generations Console/PC owners:

 

 

Basically, go through all of Modern Sonic's 2nd acts and Boss battles, but don't Boost. At all. I guarantee you'll have about as much fun getting through the levels without it as you would with it. (Except the Shadow boss. Fuck trying to go no Boost on him) Hint: don't forget that you have a slide attack.

 

 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Potada said:

Basically, go through all of Modern Sonic's 2nd acts and Boss battles, but don't Boost. At all. I guarantee you'll have about as much fun getting through the levels without it as you would with it. (Except the Shadow boss. Fuck trying to go no Boost on him) Hint: don't forget that you have a slide attack.

So, none? Removing basically the only mechanic that the game concerns itself with isn't going to lead to a fun time.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

So, none? Removing basically the only mechanic that the game concerns itself with isn't going to lead to a fun time.

Nonsense!!!

...You can appreciate the details to the scenery around you they waste their time on since normally you never really notice/care...

[Potada]

Basically, go through all of Modern Sonic's 2nd acts and Boss battles, but don't Boost. At all. I guarantee you'll have about as much fun getting through the levels without it as you would with it. (Except the Shadow boss. Fuck trying to go no Boost on him) Hint: don't forget that you have a slide attack.

So, none? Removing basically the only mechanic that the game concerns itself with isn't going to lead to a fun time.

Well, I guess "guarantee" is a bit much on my part. I just didn't feel much difference in my enjoyment of the game personally. So, I guess it's more of a "your mileage may vary" situation. Interestingly, though, you'd be surprised how many so-called "Boost mandatory" sections don't really require it.

[StaticMania]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It was rarely used and even in the best of cases it tended to be very telegraphed and often aided by dash pads...

I gather that the only reasons few were only ever aided by dash pads was because the walls never fully transitioned to completely flat, they were still sloped which could slow you down. Which often happened.

[Osmium]

14 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It was rarely used and even in the best of cases it tended to be very telegraphed and often aided by dash pads. Beta Windy Valley actually had it integrated into the level design naturally, offering opportunities if you were willing to look. Like, check this out (10:23):

3D Sonic games have rarely had the sensibility to do something so simple and so purely "Sonic" as that. And that's not even the best wallrun spot in the level, the best one is the one he starts at 11:40. That's sublime Sonic level design.

That wallrun spot is an absolutely perfect example of how classic Sonic gameplay should be translated into 3D. You got speed and skill, here's a good place to reduce your time. Not as skilled, go down into the lower area and climb your way over slower. Such a shame we never really got anything else like this. Hell, this obviously wasn't even in the final game. 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

I gather that the only reasons few were only ever aided by dash pads was because the walls never fully transitioned to completely flat, they were still sloped which could slow you down. Which often happened.

They work fine in the beta, though. At least as fine as anything in the game's engine; it's not like dash pads funneling you into Speed Highway's early wallrun made that entirely consistent.

[Blue Blood]

15 minutes ago, Potada said:

Basically, go through all of Modern Sonic's 2nd acts and Boss battles, but don't Boost. At all. I guarantee you'll have about as much fun getting through the levels without it as you would with it. (Except the Shadow boss. Fuck trying to go no Boost on him) Hint: don't forget that you have a slide attack.

 

I've done this. It's the same game, except slower and makes it more apparent that you're actually not even playing much. It's worse because the illusion is gone.

[StaticMania]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

They work fine in the beta, though. At least as fine as anything in the game's engine; it's not like dash pads funneling you into Speed Highway's early wallrun made that entirely consistent.

Well that's a different problem, where your movement needs to be slight otherwise you just fall off. It probably worked better in the beta because they didn't last long...

[JosepHenry]

I played Beta Windy Valley Beta (SADX Mod) and it is amazing. Lots of paths to take, slopes everywhere, is open but I can see where I'm supposed to go, this is how Sonic should play. Sadly I can see people complaining about it being slow sometimes, not that I have a problem with that.

Too bad Sonic Forces level design is already not going to be good as this... At least the third gameplay style could get close to something like that, but the there is very little chance of that happening. Even if the third style turns out to be Adventure gameplay, they are going to use the linear paths from SA2, so what's the difference from the boost level design?

I still can have fun with the boost, but it would be much better if they changed it, returned for the Adventure (SA1)  style, with the level design from Beta Windy Valley. 

If Sonic Forces third gameplay style is Adventure, I can imagine that as a test, to see which gameplay people will like more, and they will stick with it. 

[Blue Speedster]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I played Beta Windy Valley Beta (SADX Mod) and it is amazing. Lots of paths to take, slopes everywhere, is open but I can see where I'm supposed to go, this is how Sonic should play. Sadly I can see people complaining about it being slow sometimes, not that I have a problem with that.

Too bad Sonic Forces level design is already not going to be good as this... At least the third gameplay style could get close to something like that, but the there is very little chance of that happening. Even if the third style turns out to be Adventure gameplay, they are going to use the linear paths from SA2, so what's the difference from the boost level design?

I still can have fun with the boost, but it would be much better if they changed it, returned for the Adventure (SA1)  style, with the level design from Beta Windy Valley. 

If Sonic Forces third gameplay style is Adventure, I can imagine that as a test, to see which gameplay people will like more, and they will stick with it. 

Adventure gameplay was actually not that good compared to games now. SA2 was better than 1 but still meh. If anything I would like to see a 2D style

[JosepHenry]

7 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

Adventure gameplay was actually not that good compared to games now. SA2 was better than 1 but still meh. If anything I would like to see a 2D style

I think it has the best control of every 3D Sonic game. Maybe SA2 was better, but the level design was way too linear. 

2D Style?

[StaticMania]

6 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

Adventure gameplay was actually not that good compared to games now. SA2 was better than 1 but still meh. If anything I would like to see a 2D style

The control doesn't hold up...but there's nothing stopping them from improving the control as they did with the Boost game-play. Believe it or not, but Sonic Adventure's game-play wasn't automatically flawed from the jump. It was just hindered by poor design choices, maybe it still will be...but at least it'll control better.

[Chris Knopps]

What if the third game play style is...

Sonic 3D Blast style...?

[Blue Speedster]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The control doesn't hold up...but there's nothing stopping them from improving the control as they did with the Boost game-play. Believe it or not, but Sonic Adventure's game-play wasn't automatically flawed from the jump. It was just hindered by poor design choices, maybe it still will be...but at least it'll control better.

If that was going to happen, then a remake would have been made. I found the first Adventure to hsve reasonably OK control for its time, but after playing colors and Generations its hard to say anything good now. Forces could just incorporate maybe some of the style from Adventure but not all

[StaticMania]

9 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

If that was going to happen, then a remake would have been made.

Well that's obviously not true...it doesn't require the existence of a remake to be potentially included. Plus normally it would end up being the other way around.

 

11 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

I found the first Adventure to hsve reasonably OK control for its time, but after playing colors and Generations its hard to say anything good now.

I'm not really sure what controls much better in Boost style than Adventure, I'm not even sure why you're comparing them...since this doesn't appear to be a preference thing. They're too different in control to compare directly like that.