Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kintor]

Just now, Diogenes said:

And if it sticks with the boost gameplay it's going to be destroyed anyway. I'd rather it actually try to be good instead of give up and pump out shallow trash.

You must realise now that your accusations about the boost gameplay's profitability is objectively false. Though Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations we've seen the boost gameplay provide the foundation for some of the most successful 3D Sonic games ever made; outside of course the original Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast. Converstly, the non-boost Lost World and Sonic Boom brought only financial ruin, cost Sega a fortune and directly leading to mass lay-offs at Sega of America. The boost gameplay means money for Sega, success for Sonic Forces and the promise of a future where Sonic games are still being made.

 

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

If you say so man.

(I just think it means goodbye Sonic Team of Japan, be it just employees replaced or the division gone as a whole)

In the meantime, just gonna sip some tea and wait for whatever to happen. Either way, we've got Mania and Whitehead Team and I'm happy.

It's a mistake on your part to think we'll ever see more games like Sonic Mania if the rest of the Sonic franchise goes under with Sonic Forces. The limited scale and market for Sonic Mania will never match what can be achieved with AAA 3D Sonic games and Sega knows this. Lose Sonic Mania and Sega wil just shut-down the Sonic franchise.

Sonic Team will be fine though, they'll keep making new expansions for Phantasy Start Online 2.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

You must realise now that your accusations about the boost gameplay's profitability is objectively false.

Who's talking about profit? I'm talking about quality. Crap that sells is still crap, and living as crap is a fate worse than death. And I have some faith in people to realize when they're being sold crap, eventually.

[Chris Knopps]

You know...

After all of the backlash, maybe Sonic Forces will see a delay to Holiday 2018 and in that time all of the stages will be changed to feature as little automation as possible. Boost pads out, boost rings gone, etc.

So... Who knows.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

You know...

After all of the backlash, maybe Sonic Forces will see a delay to Holiday 2018 and in that time all of the stages will be changed to feature as little automation as possible. Boost pads out, boost rings gone, etc.

So... Who knows.

They're not going to radically revise a game they've already spent years working on.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Diogenes said:

They're not going to radically revise a game they've already spent years working on.

You never know. Look at Sonic 4 Episode 1.

[FriendBot]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

You never know. Look at Sonic 4 Episode 1.

All they did was change 2 levels and it was still a disappointment.

[Blue Blood]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

You never know. Look at Sonic 4 Episode 1.

I wouldn't call adding a dancing animation to some flowers a "radical revision".

[Diogenes]

They changed a couple of levels in a cheap downloadable game at the last minute. That's not comparable to pushing a game back a year to try to fix the boost gameplay.

[Kintor]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Who's talking about profit? I'm talking about quality. Crap that sells is still crap, and living as crap is a fate worse than death. And I have some faith in people to realize when they're being sold crap, eventually.

You need to be realistic - no more profits for Sega means no more Sonic games for us. You're right in a way though, people realise when they're being sold crap. That's why few bought Lost World on the Wii U or it's later PC ports. That's why even less bought Sonic Boom, except in a handful of games when purchases were made ironically for YouTube fodder. However, people did really like Sonic Generations, Sega sold a ton of copies and it's been selling strongly ever since on digital markets, especially the PC version through Steam. This is why we've seen Sonic Forces being made as another boost game, Sega intends to replicate the profitable success of Sonic Generations by including the boost now.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Soni said:

All they did was change 2 levels and it was still a disappointment.

Still, you can't deny it was a surprise to see them respond period.

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

I wouldn't call adding a dancing animation to some flowers a "radical revision".

Hey, it's like the only example I've got. lol

 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Kintor said:

You need to be realistic - no more profits for Sega means no more Sonic games for us.

I'm already not getting Sonic games of any worth, aside from Mania. And I'm not interested in propping up a soulless shell of a series just in the hopes I get thrown a bone once every couple of decades.

[Sega DogTagz]

lol, no one should ever try to defend the boost gamplay as profitable.

Sega has gone on record on this issue multiple times. Building boost stages by their very design is exceedingly inefficient. They lead to criminally short games and force the devs to pad the content by including "other" play-styles. Its been like this in every 3D game that uses the boost. Gens, Unleashed, Colors, Forces - they all have additional baggage piled on because the developmental burden of building a full on Modern Sonic experience is too great. Its Unsustainable.

Seriously now, love the boost or hate it, If you want to make the argument that it is the sole future of the franchise then you clearly haven't been paying attention to the devs or every 3D Sonic game that has used the formula since its inception. You clearly missed the train on WHY Sonic Team went out of their way to try something different with the "designed-to-be-asset-friendly" Lost World.

I love me some boost gameplay, but if you are seriously standing on a soapbox and declaring it "this or no Sonic at all", then you need to step back and pull your head out of your own opinions tailpipe.

[Blue Blood]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

Still, you can't deny it was a surprise to see them respond period.

Hey, it's like the only example I've got. lol

1

They pretty much had to delay it because the entire, finished game was leaked online months before release. And the reception was so overwhelmingly negative that they desperately needed to try and save face. S4 was delayed to make small changes to a small project with a Rushed development that was garnering a huge amount of bad press. Forces will not be delayed because it's a huge project that's spent a long time in development with the one aspect that we've currently seen getting a positive-yet-mild response.

You're saying they would delay a game to revise what constitutes up to 50% of the content in a multimillion dollar project that's been underway for years, because a few fans aren't totally satisfied.

You want to rethink that maybe?

[Kintor]

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'm already not getting Sonic games of any worth, aside from Mania. And I'm not interested in propping up a soulless shell of a series just in the hopes I get thrown a bone once every couple of decades.

Clearlly you're not interested in Sonic Forces, you'd rather attack the boost gameplay and condemn the Sonic franchise to further turmoil. You must concede that that boost gameplay is both popular and profitable. It's liked by the majority of Sonic fans and genral gamers, for this reason Sega is finally making more boost games with a view towards making the Sonic franchise as a whole successful once again. There's no shame in acknoweldging that money lies at the heart of all ventures related to the Sonic franchise, to ensure profitability for Sega in the games industry is the reason Sonic games were created in the first place. When all you have are failures like Lost World and Sonic Boom, things that don't make money, then the Sonic franchise doesn't have any reason to exist. Sonic forces, with it's boost gameplay, gives  the Sonic franchise a future once again.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

There's no shame in aknoweldging that money lies at the heart of all ventures related to the Sonic franchises,

Yeah, but I don't buy games simply to promote capitalism. They need to have something that appeals to me. And the boost doesn't. So fuck it.

[Kintor]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Yeah, but I don't buy games simply to promote capitalism. They need to have something that appeals to me. And the boost doesn't. So fuck it.

Look, I'm simply explaining the cause and effect here, money is the reason why Sega made Sonic games in the first place and it's the only reason that Sega will ever decide to make more Sonic games in the future. So then, I like at six years of failure, six years of Sega losing money on non-boost Sonic games and I have good reason to be concerned about the continued viability of the Sonic franchise. But I look at Sonic Forces, with its boost gameplay, and I see its following the footsteps of Sonic Generations, as the last successful Sonic game. This is a good sign; with Sonic Forces and more games like it the Sonic franchise can have a future.

[Chris Knopps]

There's only one reason I'd want Sonic to cease production...

So I'm not missing out after I'm dead.

[Diogenes]

A future of shit games isn't a future worth caring about. We aren't obligated to preserve the series at any cost; the poor thing's suffering, and if it doesn't recover, it might be best to pull the plug rather than keep it on eternal life support as it goes braindead.

[FriendBot]

The last best selling Sonic game was Transformed, so does that mean Sonic's future is to be a racer? Oh wait, it already is!

notsorry

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Soni said:

The last best selling Sonic game was Transformed, so does that mean Sonic's future is to be a racer? Oh wait, it already is!

notsorry

You really just did that?

Dude...

We really need more stuff to talk about on this game. lol

(Preferably something we can actually like)

[Kintor]

Just now, Diogenes said:

A future of shit games isn't a future worth caring about. We aren't obligated to preserve the series at any cost; the poor thing's suffering, and if it doesn't recover, it might be best to pull the plug rather than keep it on eternal life support as it goes braindead.

Fortunately then, your nihilistic and self-destructive views about what constitutes a good Sonic game isn't shared by the majority of Sonic fans or the rest of the gamming community at large. Sonic Generations was a success, it's probably the only reason Sega is still eager to make new Sonic games after what happened with Lost World and Sonic Boom. This is why Sonic Forces is being made in the image of Sonic Generations, with a few innovative tweaks here and there like its darker tone. I know that that once Sonic Forces is a success we will be seeing many more Sonic games being made in the future, each having the opportunity to improve upon the last while using the boost gameplay as a solid foundation.

Which is more than can be said for your attitude, when you'd rather destroy the Sonic franchise out of spite.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Fortunately then, your nihilistic and self-destructive views about what constitutes a good Sonic game isn't shared by the majority of Sonic fans or the rest of the gamming community at large. Sonic Generations was a success, it's probably the only reason Sega is still eager to make new Sonic games after what happened with Lost World and Sonic Boom. This is why Sonic Forces is being made in the image of Sonic Generations, with a few innovative tweaks here and there like its darker tone. I know that that once Sonic Forces is a success we will be seeing many more Sonic games being made in the future, each having the opportunity to improve upon the last while using the boost gameplay as a solid foundation.

Which is more than can be said for your attitude, when you'd rather destroy the Sonic franchise out of spite.

 

You're kind of making the conversation borderline personal man...

[Kintor]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

You're kind of making the conversation borderline personal man...

Speaking of which, you should probably tone down that whole east vs west rhetoric. That's just not cool.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Kintor said:

Speaking of which, you should probably tone down that whole east vs west rhetoric. That's just not cool.

Eh...?

That's talking about corporate stuff, not getting a tad too heated against someone in the forums. Bit of a different thing there.

East vs West is actually what's pretty much going on though, Whitehead Team vs Sonic Team and...

I'll admit, I'm lovin' it to death.

[Kintor]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Eh...?

That's talking about corporate stuff, not getting a tad too heated against someone in the forums. Bit of a different thing there.

East vs West is actually what's pretty much going on though, Whitehead Team vs Sonic Team and...

I'll admit, I'm lovin' it to death.

Nah, the kind of divide you're promoting doesn't really make sense. Sega was originally founded by in Japan by Americans, as a business that imported western pinball machines for the huge number of GIs stationed in Japan immediately after World War Two. Besides, Sega of America doesn't really exist in the same capacity they used to. Most of Sega of America’s staff were fired a couple of years ago in the after math of Sonic Boom. Now most of Sega's western operations are controlled by Sega of Europe in London.