Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Blue Speedster]

16 hours ago, StaticMania said:

The control doesn't hold up...but there's nothing stopping them from improving the control as they did with the Boost game-play. Believe it or not, but Sonic Adventure's game-play wasn't automatically flawed from the jump. It was just hindered by poor design choices, maybe it still will be...but at least it'll control better.

If Forces was to take the control style of Adventure it might be good, but updating those mechanics for the Hedgehog Engine 2.0 will be tough as the original members of ST are not there anymore, and SEGA might not have the coding still

16 hours ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I think it has the best control of every 3D Sonic game. Maybe SA2 was better, but the level design was way too linear. 

2D Style?

Yeah. Taking inspiration from Rush and Advance for the third playstyle. completely 2D, no transitions

[Chris Knopps]

2 hours ago, Lady Soniko said:

I think come to release for the games is really going to test the waters and relationship between SoJ and SoA, even if Mania doesn't go physical and remains a digital release only, the inclination of it outselling Forces is definitely going to cause some level of friction, since PagodaWest/CannonHead is a tiny dev team compared to Sonic Team. Not to mention I think Iizuka san has already made the decision to front SEGA of America as he's literally moved to the US to keep a close eye on Mania and it's progress.

I think Forces will sell like any other 3D title in last 10 or so years, and I think Mania is probably going to set Sonic back on track and CannonHead/PagodaWest will be upgraded to either a bigger team or higher position for future content from SEGA, and if a smaller team make a better game than Sonic Team's triple A department then I think you can see where they'll likely start putting more of their money into the winning side.

So if you don't think this is a East vs West situation then you need to open your eyes, because even with 2 different games coming this year, depending on how they do is going to shape the future of Sonic, I don't think they'd ever retire modern sonic... But I do think they need to re-evaluate their situation and figure out what the hell they want to do with the Modern/3D games unless they just keep him as SEGA's experimental fodder or if they just keep playing it safe and stick to one gameplay style and find a way to make it work.

It can go 2 ways, SoA continues making 2D games and pushing their way back to the top and staying relevant with social media and feedback, whilst SoJ continue to fumble in the dark, and experiment whilst losing money every time they take a gamble because I doubt SoJ would fold and agree following the West is their best solution.

Or they both find a way to coexist with each other, taking ideas and feedback and there's no pride involved because essentially, SoJ can't survive without SoA and vice versa.

In other words...

SEGA of Japan is going to do what they should have done all along, put their Eastern pride aside and let the West, who knows what the West wants and/or likes, do what needs to be done to garner the company as a whole a better profit from the franchise intended for the West more than it ever was for the East in the first place.

An era where SEGA of Japan knows their place? Yes please.

Go focus on your Puyo's and RPG's while the West handles the big boy.

[JezMM]

39 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

If Forces was to take the control style of Adventure it might be good, but updating those mechanics for the Hedgehog Engine 2.0 will be tough as the original members of ST are not there anymore, and SEGA might not have the coding still

SA1 and 2 have aged terribly and even if they were going to try that style again, it would be entirely in their best interests to start from scratch and recreate it from the ground up anyway.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, JezMM said:

SA1 and 2 have aged terribly and even if they were going to try that style again, it would be entirely in their best interests to start from scratch and recreate it from the ground up anyway.

Being honest, I always wanted to see some kind of hybrid combining the SA game play and the mach speed stuff from 06.

One thing I can praise 06 for is using Mach Speed for random spurts of adrenaline. The boost kind of ruined that by making Mach Speed a constant thing.

Mix the game play from SA1 and 06 together, and I think there's something juicy to work with.

[Blue Speedster]

7 minutes ago, JezMM said:

SA1 and 2 have aged terribly and even if they were going to try that style again, it would be entirely in their best interests to start from scratch and recreate it from the ground up anyway.

Yep. Exactly. Colors was a good one to go by as it felt like an updated  take on that style. Forces could use Modern Sonic from colors to now, Genesis style for Classic and a remake of Adventure/heroes for a third Sonic. 

[Blue Blood]

45 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

If Forces was to take the control style of Adventure it might be good, but updating those mechanics for the Hedgehog Engine 2.0 will be tough as the original members of ST are not there anymore, and SEGA might not have the coding still.

 

I'm no techie, but I can tell you that you don't take code from a piece of software developed at least 20 years ago and use it to make a cutting edge piece of software in the present day. Sure, you build on what you've learned, but you completely recreate, update and refine it in a brand new engine that's going to be entirely separate and more modern. See the Retro Engine (i.e. the Taxman ports and Mania).

2 minutes ago, Blue Speedster said:

Yep. Exactly. Colors was a good one to go by as it felt like an updated  take on that style. Forces could use Modern Sonic from colors to now, Genesis style for Classic and a remake of Adventure/heroes for a third Sonic. 

 

How many times is this going to come up?

Adventure Sonic = Modern Sonic. Literally the same thing. Also, do you really want to further divide up the gameplay, character and fanbase? Cause if so, Forces really ought to include Lost World Sonic with his slightly shorter quills and Boom Sonic with all his sports tape. Brilliant idea. Everyone gets their own personal favourite Sonic. Yep. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

I'm no techie, but I can tell you that you don't take code from a piece of software developed at least 20 years ago and use it to make a cutting edge piece of software in the present day. Sure, you build on what you've learned, but you completely recreate, update and refine it in a brand new engine that's going to be entirely separate and more modern. See the Retro Engine (i.e. the Taxman ports and Mania).

How many times is this going to come up?

Adventure Sonic = Modern Sonic. Literally the same thing. Also, do you really want to further divide up the gameplay, character and fanbase? Cause if so, Forces really ought to include Lost World Sonic with his slightly shorter quills and Boom Sonic with all his sports tape. Brilliant idea. Everyone gets their own personal favourite Sonic. Yep. 

Kind of a difficult argument when they outright revealed Adventure Sonic was intended to be his own character in Generations but didn't make it in the end due to voice acting issues for the most part. And budget/time likely played an even bigger factor.

Adventure Sonic does have his own identity within the SEGA company they just haven't revealed/expressed it as of yet.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Kind of a difficult argument when they outright revealed Adventure Sonic was intended to be his own character in Generations but didn't make it in the end due to voice acting issues for the most part. And budget/time likely played an even bigger factor.

Adventure Sonic does have his own identity within the SEGA company they just haven't revealed/expressed it as of yet.

He's never even mentioned on promotional art, being that they show Modern Sonic starting out in 1998, which was the release of SA1. They acknowledge his existence once for Generaions but ever since then, he's become none existent.

[Blue Blood]

11 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Kind of a difficult argument when they outright revealed Adventure Sonic was intended to be his own character in Generations but didn't make it in the end due to voice acting issues for the most part. And budget/time likely played an even bigger factor.

Adventure Sonic does have his own identity within the SEGA company they just haven't revealed/expressed it as of yet.

 

 

I wish people understood the difference between "concepts" and "intentions". SEGA may have thrown around the idea of including an Adventure-era Sonic in Generations. At one stage in early development they said, "hey, should we have an Adventure Sonic in here?" and then they went "nah, he's basically the same thing as Modern Sonic". They thought about it, and eventually decided against it. The voices had absolutely nothing to do with it. Voices don't come into play until much, much later on in development. And if necessary, they'd find new voices. 

Another example, look at this:

That's some early concept art for Sonic's redesign when Boom was in early production. Is that was Sonic was "intended" to look like in Boom? No. It was just a suggestion, someone's musing. It was brainstorming. In much the same way, Breath of the Wild wasn't "intended" to be about an alien invasion of Hyrule with Link wearing a tracksuit and riding a motorcycle; that was just one idea of many.

When you're designing something, particularly video games, you throw out all sorts of possible ideas to get the creative juices flowing and to see what works and what doesn't. You never come up with the perfect idea or plan right off the spot, and so you have explore different avenues to come to the right conclusion.

[Tracker_TD]

Yeah, regardless of what they said 6 years ago, it's pretty evident they don't think there's an 'Adventure Sonic' today.

Also pretty sure they never revealed anything to do with an 'Adventure Sonic,' so much as there was a rumour there was gonna be at one stage (a pretty dubious one) IIRC

EDIT: Also yeah everything that Blue Blood said, innit

[JezMM]

I'm pretty sure the stories of Ryan Drummond being considered to voice Sonic again also get muddled up in it, but I'm pretty sure that was actually related to the big recast before Sonic Free Riders/Colours, completely unrelated to Generations (even though that would've been well in the works at the time).

[Marcello]

They could just have Modern Sonic have two gameplay styles. There's no reason to split Modern and "Adventure" Sonic.

On the subject of hub worlds, if there are any I'd prefer something along the lines of Adventure over Unleashed. I didn't like how the cities and level select hubs were split there. I also liked how the levels felt more connect to the hubs in Adventure. To get to Emerald Coast, you go the beach, to get to Casinopolis I enter the casino. In Unleashed I just went into a portal in the hub.

Though, a quick access menu like in Unleashed would be nice for levels and side missions you've completed.

[JezMM]

2 minutes ago, Marcello said:

They could just have Modern Sonic have two gameplay styles. There's no reason to split Modern and "Adventure" Sonic.

That would be REALLY messy without significant visual changes to Sonic to put the player in the mindset of him handling differently.  I'd sooner have Sonic's new friend Mr. Needlemouse as a third playable character than that.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

That would be REALLY messy without significant visual changes to Sonic to put the player in the mindset of him handling differently.  I'd sooner have Sonic's new friend Mr. Needlemouse as a third playable character than that.

There have been speculations of the third gamestyle featuring Shadow. If it were "Adventure" gameplay the third style would have, having you control Shadow somewhat makes sense as he debuted in SA2. I honestly doubt that'll be the case because the whole, "Only Modern and Classic will be playable" crap, but if anyone were to have the adventure gameplay it'd either be new guy or Shadow.

[Ajavalo]

I'm not compleeeetely sure, but... didn't Aaron Webber confirm at the SxSW panel and somewhere before that there isn't a third Sonic? Because if this is true, the speculation on Boom Sonic, Adventure Sonic, Future Sonic can just end now.

I'm not even sure we know everything that was said at the panel, due to it lacking an official stream and all...

[blazefan519]

Just now, Ajavalo said:

I'm not compleeeetely sure, but... didn't Aaron Webber confirm at the SxSW panel and somewhere before that there isn't a third Sonic? Because if this is true, the speculation on Boom Sonic, Adventure Sonic, Future Sonic can just end now.

I'm not even sure we know everything that was said at the panel, due to it lacking an official stream and all...

There was someplace where they said that you played as 2 Sonics, which could mean that there isn't a third Sonic, or their purposely being cryptic about it. Either way, I don't want a third Sonic and I'd rather play as a different character entirely.

[JosepHenry]

I really wish we could do something with some of the other characters, Maybe have Blaze playable in Boost sections, Tails in Classic sections, New character or Shadow in ...Adventure sections?

Still, the game is called Sonic Forces. If it is with only 3 Sonic's and no other playable characters, people will be very disappointed. And when I say people I say ME.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I really wish we could do something with some of the other characters, Maybe have Blaze playable in Boost sections, Tails in Classic sections, New character or Shadow in ...Adventure sections?

Still, the game is called Sonic Forces. If it is with only 3 Sonic's and no other playable characters, people will be very disappointed.

It really does go against the tagline of the game. They mentioned Tails in the Radio Communication so he can't be playable. So I guess that leaves Team Dark, and Silver, and Blaze for potential characters. I doubt they'd use Silver because the last thing they want is people mindlessly yelling "Oh it's 06" and whatnot. Blaze is interesting as she can Boost, as seen in the Rush games, so it's a possibility. The most likely candidate from Team Dark is obviously Shadow, who could work in Boost gameplay but I'd rather him be in the Adventure style, if that's even added to the game. I'm just hoping that it once again won't be just Sonic.

[Cakito]

The thing is, having a third different character that is not sonic being playable seems odd and assymetrical... Even if it's the new one...

The only way it wouldn't be weird is if the character is a bad guy/gal, or if it is another sonic. Oh, or if the third gameplay is actually with more than one character... Hmmm.   

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Still, the game is called Sonic Forces. If it is with only 3 Sonic's and no other playable characters, people will be very disappointed.

People would be disappointed at that regardless; they have been with every game for some time now.

I really can't imagine the third gameplay style being something other than more Sonic, though. We know there's three styles, we know two of them are Sonic, the aesthetics would be all off if the third was Shadow or Blaze or some unrelated character.

[JosepHenry]

Pretty much.

Still, I could see Shadow and Blaze because their moveset is Sonic's and they are clones in the games that they are playable with some minor differences. There are Generations mods that show how Blaze and Shadow work in the boost formula.

 

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

It's a bigger thread than Mania's. 

Basically we all know Mania is going to be GOTY and have simply run out of ways to gush about it, so discussion has died down. There's only so many ways to say you love something. But nobody gets bored of circular arguments about the boost and Modern Sonic, no siree!

Well it's not we have anything better to do with our lives than to argue about this game :V

 

Part of it I also think is that most of this site aren't really as big of fans of the Classic series as they are of the more expansive 3D titles; probably since most of our first games were likely Sonic Adventure 1 or 2, Heroes and the like, so the emotional attachment isn't quite as prevalent there.

 

Notice how it's the opposite on Sonic Retro (yes, I go there too) where the Mania thread has way more replies than the Forces one.

[NegaMix]

15 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

It really does go against the tagline of the game. They mentioned Tails in the Radio Communication so he can't be playable. So I guess that leaves Team Dark, and Silver, and Blaze for potential characters. I doubt they'd use Silver because the last thing they want is people mindlessly yelling "Oh it's 06" and whatnot. Blaze is interesting as she can Boost, as seen in the Rush games, so it's a possibility. The most likely candidate from Team Dark is obviously Shadow, who could work in Boost gameplay but I'd rather him be in the Adventure style, if that's even added to the game. I'm just hoping that it once again won't be just Sonic.

That doesn't necessarily remove Tails as an option, since Classic Tails could be in the game as a secondary option for Classic gameplay. Blaze could definitely work in the Boost gameplay, but unless Eggman’s world domination extends to Blaze's world, I doubt that she'll appear. I'd also say that Metal Sonic would be an interesting choice for a Boost character.

[Diogenes]

There's not actually any reason to think the third gameplay style involves the boost, you know. In fact we've got every reason to expect that it won't, as it's supposed to be some new style.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Captain Metallix said:

That doesn't necessarily remove Tails as an option, since Classic Tails could be in the game. Blaze could definitely work in the Boost gameplay, but unless Eggman’s world domination extends to Blaze's world, I doubt that she'll appear. I'd also say that Metal Sonic would be an interesting choice for a Boost character.

I guess that is true. With all the speculation about Eggman Nega, it is possible that it might bleed into her world as well, but she kinda can just pop up without any explanation i.e 06, Generations, Colors DS so it extending to her world might not matter. Metal Sonic is interesting too. Maybe it can be along the lines of Sonic Rivals 2, where Eggman was controlling Metal Sonic and you get to see things through his perspective. That'd be nice.

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There's not actually any reason to think the third gameplay style involves the boost, you know. In fact we've got every reason to expect that it won't, as it's supposed to be some new style.

I'm hoping it doesn't because then, why have it be a separate gameplay style in the first place?