Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, It's a Very Merry Miru said:

Most people ONLY know it by the infamous game. The show is quite obscure compared to it. 

Ehhh...

When it comes to the BOOM cartoon, when you have the games to compare it with of course the cartoon is that of diamonds to fans. If the cartoon had launched long before the games, it probably would've been met with mediocre reception.

Also keep in mind of the scripts endured in the games, which also makes the scripts of the cartoon look perfect in comparison. I think the situation revolving the cartoon is a matter of "D-Don't look at that!! Forget that!! "Here, here!! BOOM is good! See? Ignore that!!" at the end of it all. The cartoon is just as... Meh, but since it shines better than the games, even if just slightly, many like to make it out to be brighter than the sun.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Ehhh...

When it comes to the BOOM cartoon, when you have the games to compare it with of course the cartoon is that of diamonds to fans. If the cartoon had launched long before the games, it probably would've been met with mediocre reception.

Also keep in mind of the scripts endured in the games, which also makes the scripts of the cartoon look perfect in comparison. I think the situation revolving the cartoon is a matter of "D-Don't look at that!! Forget that!! "Here, here!! BOOM is good! See? Ignore that!!" at the end of it all. The cartoon is just as... Meh, but since it shines better than the games, even if just slightly, many like to make it out to be brighter than the sun.

I highly doubt that. The show and the games hardly coincide (only with slight references here and there). Whether or not it was released before or after the games really wouldn't have changed anything. Plus I'm pretty sure people have a relative sense of comedy and can tell that the games (writtend by Pontac) aren't that good (except F&I which is probably his best script for anything Sonic related), and once again have no correlation with the show. I find the show to be very good, but that is just my opinion and I know others may share it or may not.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, blazefan519 said:

I highly doubt that. The show and the games hardly coincide (only with slight references here and there). Whether or not it was released before or after the games really wouldn't have changed anything. Plus I'm pretty sure people have a relative sense of comedy and can tell that the games (writtend by Pontac) aren't that good (except F&I which is probably his best script for anything Sonic related), and once again have no correlation with the show. I find the show to be very good, but that is just my opinion and I know others may share it or may not.

Keep in mind I'm just speaking in the sense of probabilities and based on personal outlooks, I'm not saying that IS the case, but it does seem likely. Not a certainty by any means, but a probability.

[Celestia]

21 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

They do look similar, but it's enough to tell that it's a different character, and sounding alike didn't stop Modern and Classic from being in the same game.

To be fair, Classic Sonic just straight up didn't talk. And even if he had they probably would've done the same thing they did with the two Tails, i.e. the younger one sounds, well, younger. I'm not sure what could be done to differentiate Sonic and Boom Sonic's voices.

Though yeah, the designs are definitely different enough to tell at a glance which is which.

[blazefan519]

Just now, Celestia said:

To be fair, Classic Sonic just straight up didn't talk. And even if he had they probably would've done the same thing they did with the two Tails, i.e. the younger one sounds, well, younger. I'm not sure what could be done to differentiate Sonic and Boom Sonic's voices.

Though yeah, the designs are definitely different enough to tell at a glance which is which.

My bad, I meant to put Eggman there. Modern and Classic Eggman, which unlike Modern and Classic Tails, they sound exactly the same. There is a slight tone change in Roger's performance as Modern Sonic and his performance as Boom Sonic. His Boom Sonic is slightly deeper and more relaxed in tone, which is basically him doing his regular voice in a way, his Modern is a bit more exaggerated. If he were to be added, there would need to be a bit more of a tonal shift between the two.

[JezMM]

50 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Actually it seems like they were going for the Rush games.

(Are we talking about the handheld BOOM games or Rise of Lyric here?)

I will give Rise of Lyric props for its realism and slightly more open spaces, but since Forces is returning to a realistic Pixar hybrid direction, it's hard for that bit of praise to stay on its feet in comparison since...

I dunno... I have a bit of a soft spot for the realistic Pixar look, dunno why...

Maybe it counts as positive nostalgia?

I was talking RoL.  The 3DS games are vaguely Rush-ish but not much.  Closer to Colours DS but even then.  ALL the speedy sections are 100% automated in the 3DS Boom games, like literally you can rub your face across the controller back and forth during them and it won't change their outcome whatsoever.  The rest of the gameplay is just bog-standard platforming, fun but unremarkable.  The only thing close to depth is using the right characters for various square-peg-fits-square-hole puzzles (some do demand skill with using the character abilities for sure but nonetheless), and that can't really translate into one character.

The same was true of RoL really as well which further makes me doubt Boom Sonic could be integrated effectively.  All he really has is the enerbeam and honestly I can't think of any functionality that has that couldn't be tied to context sensitive level gimmicks for Modern Sonic.

[Bowbowis]

I find it amusing how people try to shut down anyone entertaining the idea that the third playstyle could be Adventure Sonic by declaring him to be the same thing as Modern Sonic like they have the authority to do so. Face it guys, you know as well as I do that if SEGA wants to put a separate Adventure Sonic in Forces there is literally nothing stopping them. You can scream about designs until your blue in the face but you can't change that. Even if you dug up an official statement from SEGA saying Modern and Adventure Sonic were the same it wouldn't matter, word of God doesn't count for much when God has such a long history of going back on it. Until Adventure Sonic's status is confirmed one way or another in-game he's Schrodinger's Hedgehog.

 

2 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

1st art is from Sonic Adventure 1 artwork and the 2nd is current art of Modern Sonic from the Sonic Channel official site. And don’t anybody try to use the low-polygon primitive game models from Sonic adventure 1&2 as a excuse for thinking that Dreamcast Sonic should look different… The 2D art is the canon designs they used to base the 3D models after. They just couldn’t do the best job back then because of hardware limitations and the fact it was their early tries at it.

If looking different in official art is what constitutes a new Sonic then there must be like thirty iterations of Classic Sonic running around throughout space-time:

Spoiler

BOWBOWIS PRESENTS: THE CLASSIC BRIGADE 

STARRING:

Japanese Classic Sonic, American Classic Sonic, Baby's First Gradient Tool Classic Sonic, "Anybody seen my skeleton?" Classic Sonic, Snoopy's Long Lost Cousin Classic Sonic, and Adventure Sonic with Black Eyes Classic Sonic

 

 

Joking aside, why can't we use the in-game models as a source for giving Adventure Sonic his own distinct look? What he "canonically" looked like during the Adventure games isn't particularly relevant, it's not like the distinction between the Sonic's exists on anything other than a meta level anyway. I mean, per SA1 Sonic has always canonically had green eyes and long spines.

Besides, there are plenty of differences that go deeper than simple polygon count or texture quatlity, especially with his SA2 model:

Spoiler

 

 

Looking at Sonic's SA2 model and 3D art next to his Generations model and art we notice several key differences. For one SA2 Sonic's fur and skin tone are noticeably darker than Modern's, his eyelids are also tan rather than blue as in Gens. Proportionally, SA2 Sonic is plumper and more compact than Generations Sonic, his body is much closer to a perfect sphere than that of Modern Sonic, who's body more oblong. SA2's legs are shorter too. SA2's head quills are also longer relative to the rest of his body and have a deeper curve than Modern's while at rest. Conversely SA2 Sonic's back spines barely curve at all, jutting almost straight back like Silver's, while Modern's are curved so much that they actually point towards the ground. Additionally, although it's difficult to tell from still images, Adventure Sonic has much stiffer quills than Modern Sonic, who's quills flow much more freely and have greater reactions to environmental favors like wind. Last, but certainly not least SA2 Sonic has his Soap shoes, while Modern Sonic wears his usual set. On their own the individual elements may not be enough to set them apart, but together the little differences start to add up. Is the contrast between Modern and SA2 Sonic as striking as the difference between Modern and Classic? No. But I don't think you'd have too much trouble telling them apart either.

 

[blazefan519]

8 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I was talking RoL.  The 3DS games are vaguely Rush-ish but not much.  Closer to Colours DS but even then.  ALL the speedy sections are 100% automated in the 3DS Boom games, like literally you can rub your face across the controller back and forth during them and it won't change their outcome whatsoever.  The rest of the gameplay is just bog-standard platforming, fun but unremarkable.  The only thing close to depth is using the right characters for various square-peg-fits-square-hole puzzles (some do demand skill with using the character abilities for sure but nonetheless), and that can't really translate into one character.

The same was true of RoL really as well which further makes me doubt Boom Sonic could be integrated effectively.  All he really has is the enerbeam and honestly I can't think of any functionality that has that couldn't be tied to context sensitive level gimmicks for Modern Sonic.

I doubt they'll go the 3ds route because those games were 2D. The only thing I can see them pulling from there is the Fire and Ice mechanic, but that's it. So that leaves them to pull from Rise of Lyric, or something new entirely. If they are going to do combat then I sincerely hope that it isn't as tedious as RoL and Unleashed. For the Enerbeam, I really don't see much that can be done there. Maybe some spiderman like platforming, but that's all that comes to mind. They could honestly just use Boom for adventure gameplay if they wanted. Speed him up, take out the combat, give him Adventure controls, and BOOM (hehe) there you go, "Adventure" Sonic.

[FriendBot]

If Boom Sonic were to be the third playable character, I could see him being a more combat heavy character but it would be very fast-paced kinda like Platinum Games' style of combat in a way (I never played them but I hope that is the case) and if not the combat focus, maybe just use the Adventure Sonic gameplay (and add Parkour).

[Lord-Dreamerz]

12 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

They could honestly just use Boom for adventure gameplay if they wanted. Speed him up, take out the combat, give him Adventure controls, and BOOM (hehe) there you go, "Adventure" Sonic.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. I feel Boom Sonic would be given a somewhat Adventure Sonic gameplay style, or just some kind of gameplay style more based on exploration. After-all they did say it'd be a new gameplay style and not a returning one... if any of us can take their word on that... SEGA's PR teams do tend to not quite say the truth from time to time.

[blazefan519]

5 minutes ago, Soni said:

If Boom Sonic were to be the third playable character, I could see him being a more combat heavy character but it would be very fast-paced kinda like Platinum Games' style of combat in a way (I never played them but I hope that is the case) and if not the combat focus, maybe just use the Adventure Sonic gameplay (and add Parkour).

The first thing that came to my mind was Bayonetta, and that gave me some freaky images. But that would be an example of combat done right, in a way, but obviously not make it as... suggestive as other games tend to do.

[JosepHenry]

5 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

The first thing that came to my mind was Bayonetta, and that gave me some freaky images. But that would be an example of combat done right, in a way, but obviously not make it as... suggestive as other games tend to do.

3:16

[Chris Knopps]

24 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

3:16

Mmm... This appeals to my furry side greatly... Aw yeah...

[Osmium]

So uh...back to Sonic Forces 

[blazefan519]

Just now, ShroomZed said:

So uh...back to Sonic Forces 

It's sad that we always go off topic just to find something to actually talk about. It'll probably be that way till e3.

[Chris Knopps]

Guess I made it too awkward. lmfao

Agreed though, Forces thread, Forces topic.

In the city stage we've seen it'd be cool to have Modern or Classic, or Both, run down a crumbling building, or maybe up. Like to cross the river, a building blows and starts falling across it, allowing Sonic to run across as it falls to pieces and reach the other side.

[JosepHenry]

Anyway, a Platinum styled gameplay should work very well. 

Something I would like is that the city can get worse and worse until it gets to the point of the concept art shown. It looks a place that the final boss should be. Instead of space just for once.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Anyway, a Platinum styled gameplay should work very well. 

Something I would like is that the city gets worse and worse until it gets to the point of the concept art shown.

I'm guessing that the level at the start is the pre-cursor to the concept image. Which means, Sonic & Friends were not able to stop the Death Egg Robot Sentinels from destroying the whole city. Maybe after they realized there was no hope, they quickly tried evacuating the remaining citizens. Also, if that was really G.U.N shoot at the Robots seen in the gameplay trailer, how do you guys think they'll be written in the game.

[Badnik Mechanic]

On 23/03/2017 at 0:01 AM, Miki said:

I understand most people don't like the boost but I hope they don't get rid of it. I know it's not a good mechanic but it's just so darn fun

The thing with the boost...

It's great for the first... maybe even the second playthrough... but then you start to get this feeling of 'Am I even playing this?'

[JosepHenry]

14 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

I'm guessing that the level at the start is the pre-cursor to the concept image. Which means, Sonic & Friends were not able to stop the Death Egg Robot Sentinels from destroying the whole city. Maybe after they realized there was no hope, they quickly tried evacuating the remaining citizens. Also, if that was really G.U.N shoot at the Robots seen in the gameplay trailer, how do you guys think they'll be written in the game.

It looks like Eggman is already building over the city.

It sounds kinda overdramatic, but yeah, something like that.

(Of course no casualities because is Sonic game, people don't die from that!)

I'm sure the people shooting at the robots are GUN. There is no character that works with weapons like that. They will be the guys who try to help in the city, and send commands to Team Dark. I THINK.

If is GUN, is funny how we could have a game that seems more focused on story with "edgy" GUN back, but with also unnecessarily adorable Classic Sonic. This is could be the most "Adventure-like" game since Sonic '06... That's sounds like a terrible idea on paper.

[Maxtiis]

4 hours ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

I really wish we could do something with some of the other characters, Maybe have Blaze playable in Boost sections, Tails in Classic sections, New character or Shadow in ...Adventure sections?

Still, the game is called Sonic Forces. If it is with only 3 Sonic's and no other playable characters, people will be very disappointed. And when I say people I say ME.

Y'know I could actually see something like this working for the most part. You could have Tails and Knuckles in Classic 2-D sections since their abilities are capable of completely breaking a 3-D level with a traditional get to the end objective (going by their abilities in Adventure 1 & 2 anyway, if you limited how fast Tails could fly and where Knuckles could climb walls I could see them sharing the same goal as Sonic without much consequence), Blaze, like you said, can play in boost gameplay with Modern Sonic since that's the style of play she originated from.

Afterwards you've got me; we don't know what this new style of play is so I don't know who would best be suited to it. If it turns out to be something similar to how Sonic played in Sonic Adventure then I'm sure Shadow would be a shoo-in for that style, but I'd prefer if they gave him something extra to differentiate him from Sonic more so than they did in Adventure 2, maybe give him access to Chaos Control to slow down level obstacles or something.

Since I've seen many people wishing for another game like Sonic Heroes where the characters team up, I think this seems like a fair compromise even if the characters don't help each other directly in the level. Then again much of this seems like excuses to play as other characters besides Sonic again and Sonic '06 showed us it's possible to have too many characters in one game, and I'd much rather play as just Sonic than get anywhere near that territory again.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

Y'know I could actually see something like this working for the most part. You could have Tails and Knuckles in Classic 2-D sections since their abilities are capable of completely breaking a 3-D level with a traditional get to the end objective (going by their abilities in Adventure 1 & 2 anyway, if you limited how fast Tails could fly and where Knuckles could climb walls I could see them sharing the same goal as Sonic without much consequence), Blaze, like you said, can play in boost gameplay with Modern Sonic since that's the style of play she originated from.

Afterwards you've got me; we don't know what this new style of play is so I don't know who would best be suited to it. If it turns out to be something similar to how Sonic played in Sonic Adventure then I'm sure Shadow would be a shoo-in for that style, but I'd prefer if they gave him something extra to differentiate him from Sonic more so than they did in Adventure 2, maybe give him access to Chaos Control to slow down level obstacles or something.

Since I've seen many people wishing for another game like Sonic Heroes where the characters team up, I think this seems like a fair compromise even if the characters don't help each other directly in the level. Then again much of this seems like excuses to play as other characters besides Sonic again and Sonic '06 showed us it's possible to have too many characters in one game, and I'd much rather play as just Sonic than get anywhere near that territory again.

It'd be cool to see some kind of team mechanic similar to Heroes, but I think it would be more likely to have the sort of partner set up like in Shadow the Hedghog. A certain character helps you throughout the stage, so they're not technically playable, but there are in the gameplay.

I don't think it was because there were too many characters, but because of how it was handled that made it seem bad. You only played as three characters for each route, which in a way is like Heroes, and even then, you only played as those characters once or twice. If there were to actually polish the characters and not make them so painfully slow, then I think it can work. But we already know that only the Sonics will be playable, so if the characters are going to be interactive in any kind of way, it'll have to be something similar to Heroes and Shadow.

[Meta77]

You want to know what boost gameplay is watch the 18 seconds i cut out here haha XD

 

that was a hell of a save for me lol

[Maxtiis]

6 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

It'd be cool to see some kind of team mechanic similar to Heroes, but I think it would be more likely to have the sort of partner set up like in Shadow the Hedghog. A certain character helps you throughout the stage, so they're not technically playable, but there are in the gameplay.

I don't think it was because there were too many characters, but because of how it was handled that made it seem bad. You only played as three characters for each route, which in a way is like Heroes, and even then, you only played as those characters once or twice. If there were to actually polish the characters and not make them so painfully slow, then I think it can work. But we already know that only the Sonics will be playable, so if the characters are going to be interactive in any kind of way, it'll have to be something similar to Heroes and Shadow.

The fact that there were 9 playable characters that each controlled differently with abilities unique to that character was probably a nightmare to program for, a problem that was only exacerbated by Sonic Team being split practically into thirds with the senior members like Yuji Naka departing and another division to create what became Secret Rings. I don't know how many member are on staff at Sonic Team today (I've heard there are two teams within it now, can anyone confirm this) but I wouldn't wish anything like that on them again. Plus deadlines had a factor in that as well, and as far as we know that isn't as much a factor now as it was then.

I know only Sonic is confirmed playable in Forces, I'm just speculating here on how a game like Forces could potentially be made to have multiple playable characters.

[Chris Knopps]

14 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

You want to know what boost gameplay is watch the 18 seconds i cut out here haha XD

 

that was a hell of a save for me lol

Empire City, so much 3D...