Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kellan]

37 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

You want to know what boost gameplay is watch the 18 seconds i cut out here haha XD

 

that was a hell of a save for me lol

Oh my goodness, that looked cool. The way you ran across those buildings was sweet! Too bad I only played the Wii version of Unleashed.

I'm now a bit more hyped for boost, now that I remember the spectacle that it can be.

[Kintor]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

The thing with the boost...

It's great for the first... maybe even the second playthrough... but then you start to get this feeling of 'Am I even playing this?'

Speak for yourself; I never get tired of the boost gameplay. I've been replaying my favourite levels in Sonic Generations for years, it really gives you a subtle appreciation for the boost gameplay's controls as you look for new ways to shave-off a couple of seconds from your existing best time. Later stages like Seaside Hill and Crisis City with their more complex level design really bring-out the most dynamic possibilities of the boost gameplay.

It's just a shame that Sonic Generations never got any extra level DLC, I'd have bought more reimaged levels to boost through in a heartbeat. Oh well, maybe Sonic Forces will some DLC to offer in the months and years post-launch? Assuming of course that this Hedgehog Engine 2.0 has helped Sonic Team streamline development of the modern stages.

[Badnik Mechanic]

9 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Speak for yourself; I never get tired of the boost gameplay.

Good for you.

I for one find it dull to hold down one button followed by the jump at strategic points to discover you can skip out entire sections of some stages in Generations.

If we've absolutely got to have boost gameplay in future Sonic games, start employing developers with driving game or flight sim experience. If We're going to make Sonic this entity which can blast through stages by holding one button, we might as well tweek it to that of a car or jet plane so the player actually feels like they're controlling a character/object and not just holding X to win.

Edit: Actually no you can't have him controlling as a jet fighter because with a flying object you have to compensate for the pull of gravity which wouldn't occur unless Sonic was in a jump. 

[Kintor]

18 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Good for you.

I for one find it dull to hold down one button followed by the jump at strategic points to discover you can skip out entire sections of some stages in Generations.

Oh please, you can make any game sound terrible when you use this faulty rhetoric. By your choice of word play the classic 16-bit games are even worse: you only hold forward on the D-pad and occasionally press the jump button when prompted to do so. At least Sonic Generations is more complex since you have to use an extra button in order to properly play the game.

Besides, finding ways to skip entire sections of a level is a speed-running pastime ever since Sonic games were invented. Like that particular point in Sonic Adventure 2's Final Rush, jumping off key points in the level can allow you effectively bypass parts of it. So long as you don't accidently get yourself killed in the process.

[JezMM]

See this is why I don't really defend the boost gameplay anymore even though I love it, it's just not really worth the time, it's too divisive, and no amount of words can change a person's experience with it.  Might as well try and convince a marmite-hater that said product tastes good using the written word.

 

_{Note marmite does taste good and if you can't handle it you're weak.}

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, JezMM said:

See this is why I don't really defend the boost gameplay anymore even though I love it, it's just not really worth the time, it's too divisive, and no amount of words can change a person's experience with it.  Might as well try and convince a marmite-hater that said product tastes good using the written word.

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_{Note marmite does taste good and if you can't handle it you're weak.}

Exactly, I personally don't mind the boost. Even though I prefer a more open world type of gameplay, I was never really offended by the boost and I wouldn't mind more games with it, but change it up every now and then.

[Diogenes]

This isn't really a new observation but I was suddenly struck by how almost every move and common level object in the boost games is designed around putting you on the exact right trajectory that the game wants you to be on.

Homing attacks, quick step, light dash, springs, dash pads, dash hoops, rails, boost ramps, ziplines, walljump pads, cannons, loops...

And also how much of boost gameplay is just brief moments of guiding Sonic from one of these gimmicks to the next.

I might have some small amount of respect for the boost gameplay if you were meant to actually control and use the boost as a mechanic but you aren't even given opportunity to do that.

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

This isn't really a new observation but I was suddenly struck by how almost every move and common level object in the boost games is designed around putting you on the exact right trajectory that the game wants you to be on.

Homing attacks, quick step, light dash, springs, dash pads, dash hoops, rails, boost ramps, ziplines, walljump pads, cannons, loops...

Wasn't this always the case from the transition to 3D? I mean, it wasn't their only purpose, but this has been a pretty prominent thing since Adventure 1.

[Diogenes]

Oh, no doubt there's been tons of it throughout Sonic's 3D games. But I feel like there were occasional moments of Not That in the other games, but they utterly dominate the boost games.

e: like it's specifically that I had a moment of "wow, you really don't do shit in these games" that prompted that post.

[Kintor]

7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Wasn't this always the case from the transition to 3D? I mean, it wasn't their only purpose, but this has been a pretty prominent thing since Adventure 1.

Arguably even the classic 2D games are also exactly like this. Which invented springboards and dash pads, among a variety of other zone specific gimmicks designed to shift the player towards another direction. Because if an object doesn't move the playable character forward in a certain new direction then it has no purpose being in a Sonic game. This is as true of S3&K as it's true of Sonic Generations.

[JezMM]

Gimmicks in the classic games tended to keep you in control of where Sonic went after you reacted to them though.  You could immediately steer Sonic after hitting a spring, bumper or, well, most things, to either enhance or fight against the result of interacting with them.  In the boost games, springs, dash rings and boosters all send you the strict way the developers intended, often not even responding to input until the sequence of them is complete.

[Diogenes]

There's a difference between "this object helps you move towards your goal" and "this object moves you towards the goal". Density of gimmicks is also an important factor. Springs in the Genesis games didn't completely lock your controls until you ended up where you were supposed to be and the games didn't constantly fling you into sequences of springs where you just watched Sonic bounce around.

[Kellan]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

e: like it's specifically that I had a moment of "wow, you really don't do shit in these games" that prompted that post.

The lives that I lost in Crisis City would disagree with you. I don't know if you remember getting Red Star Rings in Generations, and maybe you were able to press "X" and win, but, for me, it took quite a bit of practice. Sure the basic levels were rather easy to complete, but that was more of a problem with Generations as a whole. I played Sonic Unleashed on the Wii, and I recall one stage in that game, Eggmanland, being very challenging for me to finish. I had to learn the game, I had to get good at the mechanics, and I had a fun time doing so.

Maybe the boost games have become too automated, but I believe that the fault lies with the games that use boost, not with the boost itself.

[Chris Knopps]

Something that I haven't seen brought up yet, and forgive me for derailing the whole automation debate again, but does anyone want/hope we get Super Sonic as a playable character, in both forms, in this game?

I'd like it to be a post-story feature that unlocks after beating the game. This way we can use the Red Rings to unlock a TON of hidden content, like art, hidden CGi scenes like in Unleashed...

And call me crazy, but who else would like to use Red Rings to unlock custom gear/outfits for Sonic?

I'd love to give him a Jackson touch, but something more subtle like different scarfs and shoes wouldn't be bad either. Maybe shades?

Join the resistance of staples and rules.

[Kintor]

5 minutes ago, Kellan said:

The lives that I lost in Crisis City would disagree with you. I don't know if you remember getting Red Star Rings in Generations, and maybe you were able to press "X" and win, but, for me, it took quite a bit of practice. Sure the basic levels were rather easy to complete, but that was more of a problem with Generations as a whole. I played Sonic Unleashed on the Wii, and I recall one stage in that game, Eggmanland, being very challenging for me to finish. I had to learn the game, I had to get good at the mechanics, and I had a fun time doing so.

Maybe the boost games have become too automated, but I believe that the fault lies with the games that use boost, not with the boost itself.

Yeah, like any Sonic game, getting the most out of the boost requires practise before you can control things properly. As I said in an earlier post, levels like Crisis City bring the most out the boost gameplay; with Eggmanland being another great example. Any player foolish enough to believe they can just carelessly run through these levels, believing the most absurd stereotypes about the boost,  is going to be dying a lot before they adjust their attitude to the boost.

[blazefan519]

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Something that I haven't seen brought up yet, and forgive me for derailing the whole automation debate again, but does anyone want/hope we get Super Sonic as a playable character, in both forms, in this game?

I'd like it to be a post-story feature that unlocks after beating the game. This way we can use the Red Rings to unlock a TON of hidden content, like art, hidden CGi scenes like in Unleashed...

And call me crazy, but who else would like to use Red Rings to unlock custom gear/outfits for Sonic?

I'd love to give him a Jackson touch, but something more subtle like different scarfs and shoes wouldn't be bad either. Maybe shades?

I'd like to play as Super Sonic in post. I think the only Modern game that did that was Lost World, correct? I'd just like to play as him again and see how broken everything becomes. Speaking of Super Sonic, I'm willing to bet we'll have a Super Sonic boss fight this time around, with it being an anniversary game and all.

I loved all the stuff you could unlock in Generations with the Red Star rings, hoping that they do the same in Forces as well.

[Chris Knopps]

And call me crazy, but I'm diggin' this fan re-design for Eggman.

Wouldn't mind seeing this in Forces or something like it in a future game. Could have been perfect for BOOM back when it was called Sonic Synergy.

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

At least Sonic Generations is more complex since you have to use an extra button in order to properly play the game.

I see...

So aside from the initial rush of feeling unstoppable.

 

How is that entertaining gameplay?

[Cakito]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

And call me crazy, but I'm diggin' this fan re-design for Eggman.

Wouldn't mind seeing this in Forces or something like it in a future game. Could have been perfect for BOOM back when it was called Sonic Synergy.

 

Ok. You're crazy, hahaha

32 minutes ago, Kellan said:

The lives that I lost in Crisis City would disagree with you. I don't know if you remember getting Red Star Rings in Generations, and maybe you were able to press "X" and win, but, for me, it took quite a bit of practice. Sure the basic levels were rather easy to complete, but that was more of a problem with Generations as a whole. I played Sonic Unleashed on the Wii, and I recall one stage in that game, Eggmanland, being very challenging for me to finish. I had to learn the game, I had to get good at the mechanics, and I had a fun time doing so.

Maybe the boost games have become too automated, but I believe that the fault lies with the games that use boost, not with the boost itself.

Level Design, and Level Design. I though Unleashed had the best boost gameplay not because the boost itself is different from other games, no, it was the levels. All Day stage levels were pretty fun to play, with a great balance of 3D and 2D in the game. Generations is really fun in the first time you play the level, but in the second time you already know how to avoid everything and the whole thing just gets kinda boring.

Also, would love to see more bosses levels in Forces, not just one per world. Personally, Bosses levels are always the best part in Sonic games (except Colors) So I am looking forward to destroy loads of giant robots

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Cakito said:

Also, would love to see more bosses levels in Forces, not just one per world. Personally, Bosses levels are always the best part in Sonic games (except Colors) So I am looking forward to destroy loads of giant robots

Man I couldn't disagree more, most Sonic bosses are awful, but I'd probably call Colors' above average.

[Chris Knopps]

What if the final boss of Forces revolves Eggman having all the emeralds and his own super form?

Kind of like a clash of the titans, maybe have Eggman and Sonic fighting all over the world with the boss repeatedly changing locations ala Dragonball Z style?

Come on...

Come ooooooooonnnnnnnn...

[Cakito]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Man I couldn't disagree more, most Sonic bosses are awful, but I'd probably call Colors' above average.

Really? My favorite ones are from Day Stages in Unleashed. I think colors's bosses are too simple - I mean, in the Wii version. The DS ones are great.   

My fav boss is the Egg Dragon in Generations, but call me crazy, there is a ton of bosses I love to fight as sonic.

Oh. So good.

[Remy]

53 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Springs in the Genesis games didn't completely lock your controls until you ended up where you were supposed to be and the games didn't constantly fling you into sequences of springs where you just watched Sonic bounce around.

They kinda do, though. if you walk left into a spring and keep holding left sonic won't skid and stop after hitting the spring, or try to go left- they force you to go right for at least a little bit. Otherwise they wouldn't work/would probably feel horrible. 

Obviously not as severe an effect as in the new games, but they do legit lock you for like a second or so. I think the new boosters probably came from taking this design and running with it a little too much... I agree with the second part of the quote tho

[Kellan]

26 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I see...

So aside from the initial rush of feeling unstoppable.

 

How is that entertaining gameplay?

I dunno, what do you think the gameplay has that makes it un-entertaining?

[Bowbowis]

57 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

And call me crazy, but I'm diggin' this fan re-design for Eggman.

Wouldn't mind seeing this in Forces or something like it in a future game. Could have been perfect for BOOM back when it was called Sonic Synergy.

Look dude, I backed you on the idea of giving Eggman a new look to reflect his status as dictator, but I think the examples you're picking to illustrate you point are a bit extreme. I mean, is that supposed to be Eggman, or a steampunk Ganondorf? Seriously, just give him a nice little El Presidente number and call it good.

 

I will say I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of Forces Eggman having a mechanical arm though. Especially if it were one tricked out with a bunch of gadgets that enhanced his abilities. I dunno, it might be fun to have a boss fight against Eggman where he's not piloting a mech for a change.

Now I'm imagining a scene where Sonic enters into Eggman's throne room banters, with the doctor for a bit, then charges up a spindash, and launches himself at Eggman, ready to kick some ass but then Eggman just stands up, effortlessly catches him, and throws him across the room. Sonic wonders what just happened, and then Eggman has this big Edward Elric moment where he dramatically rips off his coat to reveal his shiny new prosthetic.

"Get a load of this!"