Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Wraith]

For me, I only ever replay the boost stages in Unleashed and Gens, so I'm going to drift toward wanting more of those even if it makes the game shorter. Werehog and Classic Sonic just feel kind of like filler.

It'll be different if Classic Sonic is somehow pitch perfect this time though.

[Blue Blood]

Not gonna lie - the problem with these videos is kinda that it's Shadow. If it was Tails or Knuckles, it'd be kinda cool. If it was Big, it might even be funny. But it's Shadow, and, well...

Shadow isn't awful. I actually quite like him, and it would be cool to play as his again. But I'm sure we're all well aware of how some of his biggest fans are also the edgiest. It's the very connotations that run with his fanbase that make it so funny. The video itself isn't actually too badly made, and I've already said how disappointed I am that Forces is starring Classic Sonic instead of members of the series' cast. I just can't help but that the video was fuelled by the angst of his scorned fans though. 

Also it gets worse

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

 

 

Why does that video get so many views?

[RictalRose0]

Shadow make sense though, what with him working for G.U.N. That makes him have a reason to be on scene, and gameplay-wise he's almost as fast as Sonic and has enough gimmicks to stand out as a different character, like Blaze.

[Wraith]

Shadow doesn't need much of a reason besides not liking Eggman and not liking cities destroyed to be honest

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

51 minutes ago, Soniman said:

It is pretty hilarious that Sonic Team can easily extend the games playtime by simply adding more characters. A three hero game with Sonic, Shadow and Blaze would NOT be hard to do in the boost style. But no, gotta rely the 2D

 

47 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

that's pretty much all I wanted for the last 10 plus years. I don't everybody to be playable just like 2-3 more characters with some tweaks

 

54 minutes ago, Josh said:

It could be like Sonic Rush even where Shadow could have enough tweaks to his moveset to make the game worth another play-through.

I'd even go so far as to extend it to 4 to include E-123 Omega, who's got speed and shooting capabilities to boot as well.

[Kuzu]

29 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Not gonna lie - the problem with these videos is kinda that it's Shadow. If it was Tails or Knuckles, it'd be kinda cool. If it was Big, it might even be funny. But it's Shadow, and, well...

Shadow isn't awful. I actually quite like him, and it would be cool to play as his again. But I'm sure we're all well aware of how some of his biggest fans are also the edgiest. It's the very connotations that run with his fanbase that make it so funny. The video itself isn't actually too badly made, and I've already said how disappointed I am that Forces is starring Classic Sonic instead of members of the series' cast. I just can't help but that the video was fuelled by the angst of his scorned fans though. 

Also it gets worse

 

Didn't know you felt that way about me Bro...

 

 

[Blue Blood]

24 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Didn't know you felt that way about me Bro...

Nah. You're tight, bro. I said "some". I'm talking about the people who think that ShTH and '06 were the highlights of the series because they were such mature games (when in fact the exact opposite is true), and those that suffered brain aneurysms upon seeing Lost World's cartoony visuals. You know, the fans that make you wish you weren't a fan.

Just being a fan of different aspects of the series is obviously fine, especially when the series varies so much and creates these huge divides. But we know there are definitely some truly angsty and edgy folk out there that are as amusing as they are embarrassing. And yep, I know it's not limited to Shadow fans either. 

 

We're all awful

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

13 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Nah. You're tight, bro. I said "some". I'm talking about the people who think that ShTH and '06 were the highlights of the series because they were such mature games

I'll admit that I see more good than bad in Shadow the Hedgehog, in terms of actually progressing the character (and I'll admit I still legit like the game), but I certainly won't pretend the many questionable issues that game had. And as for Sonic 06, Shadow's story is the only story that I feel actually works to an extent. Hence why I often call that game Shadow 2 & Silver. However, nuh, uh am I gonna say that any of that saves 06 from the garbage dump that is.

 

[Chris Knopps]

So...

Shadow is good...

But when fans edit him into the Forces trailer to replace Classic, who is literally the scum/curse of the game in majorities eyes...

He's suddenly terrible and should never have any part in it...?

43 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Nah. You're tight, bro. I said "some". I'm talking about the people who think that ShTH and '06 were the highlights of the series because they were such mature games (when in fact the exact opposite is true), and those that suffered brain aneurysms upon seeing Lost World's cartoony visuals. You know, the fans that make you wish you weren't a fan.

Just being a fan of different aspects of the series is obviously fine, especially when the series varies so much and creates these huge divides. But we know there are definitely some truly angsty and edgy folk out there that are as amusing as they are embarrassing. And yep, I know it's not limited to Shadow fans either. 

  Hide contents

We're all awful

When are we going to stop using both as a bad thing? See, this is exactly why we have Colors, Generations, and Lost World, it really needs to stop sometime if people want any meat back in this franchise.

[RictalRose0]

To be honest Shadow's story is one of the only parts of 06 that I actually enjoyed. And i'm not even a big Shadow fan. Yeah it's still pretty boring but it's still not as strange and barebones as Sonic's story in that game.

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, Dejimon11 said:

Where the hell did all the Shadow hate come from suddenly?

Shadow has ALWAYS been an extremely divisive character. His own game turned him into a laughing stock among fans and the media. 

[RictalRose0]

Isn't he the second most popular character though? 

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Shadow has ALWAYS been an extremely divisive character. His own game turned him into a laughing stock among fans and the media. 

Opinion, leaning too much on a factual tone in your words.

His game, not so good, the character, yeah, look at the numbers for compared to against.

In little niche circles, perhaps he isn't all that high and mighty, but face what IS factual, there's a reason he's still around and was shoehorned into BOOM, both the games and the show.

Just as in politics, so too in the fan base there exists something called the silent majority.

[Zippo]

9 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Isn't he the second most popular character though? 

He's officially the second most popular character, but Shadow is also among one of the most hated characters in the franchise. I tend to notice that a lot of the hate comes from old school fans and the non fans. I have friends in both of those circles, and he's always the quickest character to get shots taken at. I remember a friend of mine called him a "Shitty furry Vegeta". Not saying whether or not the hate is or isn't unwarranted, but it's very notable in places I've visited.

[Diogenes]

18 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

So...

Shadow is good...

But when fans edit him into the Forces trailer to replace Classic, who is literally the scum/curse of the game in majorities eyes...

He's suddenly terrible and should never have any part in it...?

I don't like Shadow in the first place, but getting upset over one character's inclusion and pasting a picture of your favorite character over them is a weird thing to do and seems indicative of the...more fanatical type of fan, if you catch my drift.

8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Opinion, leaning too much on a factual tone in your words.

That Shadow's game turned him into a joke isn't an opinion, it's a demonstrable fact. Some people may not find the joke funny, but plenty of people have been making it regardless.

[Wraith]

12 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Opinion, leaning too much on a factual tone in your words.

His game, not so good, the character, yeah, look at the numbers for compared to against.

In little niche circles, perhaps he isn't all that high and mighty, but face what IS factual, there's a reason he's still around and was shoehorned into BOOM, both the games and the show.

Just as in politics, so too in the fan base there exists something called the silent majority.

Some of yall Sonic fans need to get out of your bubble lol. Shadow is the face of the "edgy" complaint the franchise often got labeled with/

[Zippo]

16 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Opinion, leaning too much on a factual tone in your words.

His game, not so good, the character, yeah, look at the numbers for compared to against.

In little niche circles, perhaps he isn't all that high and mighty, but face what IS factual, there's a reason he's still around and was shoehorned into BOOM, both the games and the show.

Just as in politics, so too in the fan base there exists something called the silent majority.

Except, not really, because I have no strong feelings toward Shadow one way or the other. Nothing there is being labeled as a "fact". Please take your defensive assumptions elsewhere. I'm going by what I've seen regarding Shadow in the past decade. And it isn't favorable on sites that I've visited. His game being awful and the story being poorly written soured a lot of people on his character, something I noticed in a lot of reviews at the time and after.

2 minutes ago, Josh said:

Some of yall Sonic fans need to get out of your bubble lol. Shadow is the face of the "edgy" complaint the franchise often got labeled with/

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Shadowlax]

9 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Why would anybody want to make this.

 

8 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

It's just so butthurt. I don't think that I'll ever understand these sorts of reactions. I was so disappointed when the trailer said "but even heroes need help", only for Classic Sonic to appear instead of any of Sonic's shitty friends. Is this actually necessary though? Like, really?

I'm failing to see the reason for negative reaction here. 

This person didn't like something and instead of complaining about into the ether of forums on the internet

Actually went out and made something creative, and possibly practiced a craft he can one day turn into a career

 

But they are butt hurt?

What hell are you talking about? You all the ones who sound butt hurt someone, decided to do something creative with their disdain instead of just complaining. Especially complaining about someone doing something creative. Like you are right now. 

12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't like Shadow in the first place, but getting upset over one character's inclusion and pasting a picture of your favorite character over them is a weird thing to do and seems indicative of the...more fanatical type of fan, if you catch my drift.

No its not? People draw fan art of characters they want in games? People draw fan art of characters they want in street fighter, sometimes those people are professional artists. 

Oh man, the guy who drew one punch man is a weirdo now because he drew a fan art of street fighter characters he wants in sf5. OH NOOOO

He did creative , not like me. Person complaining in forum, that's how a good fan reacts doing nothing. 

Quote

That Shadow's game turned him into a joke isn't an opinion,

But it is...That's the nature of opinion

Quote

 

it's a demonstrable fact. Some people may not find the joke funny, but plenty of people have been making it regardless.

That's.. also an opinion

8 minutes ago, Josh said:

Some of yall Sonic fans need to get out of your bubble lol. Shadow is the face of the "edgy" complaint the franchise often got labeled with/

Yeah, people do the same shit with akuma from street fighter. 

Oh look akuma from street fighter is one of the most  popular characters in SF and in Video games. Huh, its almost as if jokes are representative of a general like or dislike of a character. 

7 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Except, not really, because I have no strong feelings toward Shadow one way or the other. Nothing there is being labeled as a "fact". I'm going by what I've seen regarding Shadow in the past decade. And it isn't favorable on sites that I've visited. His game being awful and the story being poorly written soured a lot of people on his character, something I noticed in a lot of reviews at the time and after.

 

That sounds like some anecdotal ass anecdotal like evidence. 

[DonWaffleleven]

20 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Because they still want to Boost game-play to have significant platforming sections...and they can't exactly have that in 3D. Not in this style, not in its current state.

calling shenanigans on that because some of the later stages of Gens had some pretty good 3D platforming. If we absolutely must have boost gameplay, why can't we just have more of that?

20 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Its pretty clear that despite the long development cycle, the same age old problem with boost gameplay still remains. Its just too resource intensive. Creating fully 3D maps for Sonic to blow through at that kind of ridiculous pace creates too much work for the dev team. Having modern Sonic switch to 2D for significant chunks of time allots for longer, more "satisfying" stage lengths thanks to a significantly more narrow scope that comes with the perspective. Its not an ideal situation, but ST's kind of in a bind there.

Since its inception, Sonic Team has made it clear that the boost gameplay style isn't sustainable for that reason alone. Until they figure out a way to make the Unleashed formula less intensive on a time and development front, we will always see the Team padding out the 3D with 2D and the game overall with other playstyles.

The 2D sections are one of the few current things that the franchise can reliably fall back on (thanks to the good reception it got in Gens/Unleashed) so when the need arises to "slow things down" its only natural that they would fall back on sidescrolling.

Oh, I guess that's why. I'd ask why the levels couldn't be shorter, someone would say "that makes the game too short" so I'd ask why not just make small, short levels, and someone would come up with "oh, the strategy everybody hated with Sonic Colours?" and that would keep me quiet, leaving me sulking in my cave of Sonic Adventure love and adoration.

I guess the next question is if they know the boost gameplay is fundamentally flawed on this level, why still make games in it's style?

[Shadowlax]

20 minutes ago, Zippo said:

He's officially the second most popular character, but Shadow is also among one of the most hated characters in the franchise. I tend to notice that a lot of the hate comes from old school fans and the non fans. I have friends in both of those circles, and he's always the quickest character to get shots taken at. I remember a friend of mine called him a "Shitty furry Vegeta". Not saying whether or not the hate is or isn't unawarranted, but it's very notable in places I've visited.

I've seen him fairly popular outside of the franchise itself, often brought up in " who should be a playable character " in smash debates. But much like your things, its also anecdotal .

[Chris Knopps]

Boy, when I start something I REALLY start it...

Look everyone, there wasn't any intention of starting some random, out of nowhere anti-Shadow riot. I posted the video with the intention of giving folks an example of something they'd been hoping would've happened when the game was revealed. by and large it's a pretty common thing that fans expected either A - Shadow or B - Knuckles to appear in place of Classic Sonic and it just didn't happen, so fans who did want their favorite character put in are putting in the time/work/effort to put together "what if" examples to appease themselves and those like them.

There's no reason to turn this into a self destructive thread hellbent on arguing with one another over how bad or good a character is despite both ends of the argument point blank admitting he's the second most popular in the franchise, be it a begrudging truth or not.

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't like Shadow in the first place, but getting upset over one character's inclusion and pasting a picture of your favorite character over them is a weird thing to do and seems indicative of the...more fanatical type of fan, if you catch my drift.

That Shadow's game turned him into a joke isn't an opinion, it's a demonstrable fact. Some people may not find the joke funny, but plenty of people have been making it regardless.

Being fanatical is what this franchise needs. If we keep badmouthing people who show more passion/interest than others nothing will ever change. We're going to wind up in a community of universally spiteful and self-destructive, passive-aggressive folks who are so indifferent to everything this franchise really won't have a reason to keep going.

13 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Except, not really, because I have no strong feelings toward Shadow one way or the other. Nothing there is being labeled as a "fact". I'm going by what I've seen regarding Shadow in the past decade. And it isn't favorable on sites that I've visited. His game being awful and the story being poorly written soured a lot of people on his character, something I noticed in a lot of reviews at the time and after.

Okay, that's great for the sites you've visited but that in no way, shape or form points to anything being near a majority opinion when you consider many art sites still thrive on content revolving both Sonic and Shadow.

He is not a perfect character, but at the end of the day is is second only to Sonic no matter what, as I said, small niche circles feel at locations you've been.

Is he my favorite? Hell no. But it's still clear there are enough to warrant his inclusion in things in the present, even new/split franchises.

Judging the character by his single game alone is no different than saying that Sonic has, forever has, forever will, without a doubt nor' question be something so terrible it should outright cease to exist due to 06, Secret Rings, Lost World, Rise of Lyric, and whatever other titles Sonic has failed just as abysmally with.

And if you want another argument based on facts...

Sales figures. Lost World vs Shadow the Hedgehog.

So since Lost World did even worse, by your argument it follows suit that Sonic is even worse...

You see?

And think about how many more people outright despise Sonic compared to Shadow, yet the former remains number one, the later number two.

[Wraith]

8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Yeah, people do the same shit with akuma from street fighter. 

Oh look akuma from street fighter is one of the most  popular characters in SF and in Video games. Huh, its almost as if jokes are representative of a general like or dislike of a character. 

 

Speaking as someone who plays Street Fighter and likes both characters, I've never seen someone mock Akuma in the same way they mock Shadow. 

[Shadowlax]

5 minutes ago, Josh said:

Speaking as someone who plays Street Fighter and likes both characters, I've never seen someone mock Akuma in the same way they mock Shadow. 

I see people shit on akuma all the time.

With the exact same cadence and anti-edge sentiments, evil ryu aswell. And Cody, but all those popular characters in the franchise. Everytime akuma gets brought up on sites I see several people shitting on him, wishing he wasn't in the game for being edgy and being a clone of ryu. Oh that's familiar. These complaints intensified with akumas.... interesting design choice in SFV.

The reason you see it the fore front is because sonic is the popular thing for reviewers to poo on, but i'n seen similar sentiment to any character that could be remotely identified as edgy. 

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

No its not? People draw fan art of characters they want in games? People draw fan art of characters they want in street fighter, sometimes those people are professional artists. 

Oh man, the guy who drew one punch man is a weirdo now because he drew a fan art of street fighter characters he wants in sf5. OH NOOOO

Who said anything about drawing fanart? I'm talking about the implied spite in covering up a character you don't like with one that you do.

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But it is...That's the nature of opinion

That's.. also an opinion

If I say, "Shadow is a joke", that's my opinion. But if I think Shadow is a joke, is a fact that I think that Shadow is a joke. It is a fact that I have a particular opinion. "Diogenes thinks Shadow is a joke" is a true statement, not an opinion.

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being fanatical is what this franchise needs. If we keep badmouthing people who show more passion/interest than others nothing will ever change. We're going to wind up in a community of universally spiteful and self-destructive, passive-aggressive folks who are so indifferent to everything this franchise really won't have a reason to keep going.

Maybe we don't have to go to either extreme. And being fanatically against an aspect of the series is not spreading the kind of positivity that you seem to be advocating.