Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kintor]

1 hour ago, SonicDude said:

I only care about Sonic Mania, so I hope for your sake Forces fucks up hard and then Sonic Team says "let's try the Adventure formula again then, people hating on boost now shit." And really the Spin Dash from Adventure 1/2 was fun as fuck, they just need to tweak it to make it more stable since they are pretending to care about quality now. But part of the fun was being able to moon jump by Spin Dashing and then jumping off an incline.

If you really want to see more Adventure influence in future Sonic then this is definitely the wrong way to go about it. Where on a razor's edge here, after five years of failure in the Sonic franchise. The failure of Sonic Forces would likely mean the end of 3D Sonic games all together and a vastly diminished Sonic franchise as a whole. You'd get rid of the boost but you'd also destroy everything that Sonic games have achieved since 1998.

Instead, it's far better to foster a more healthy discussion about how to include more Adventure era mechanics alongside the successful boost gameplay. There are core elements of Sonic's Adventure-era gameplay already present, such as with the homing attack -- which has survival all the turmoil of the Sonic franchise and remains on of Sonic's most consistent 3D gameplay mechanics. For example, I'm sure it could be possible to reintegrate the spin dash into the boost gameplay, in certain situations; using the boost to extended the momentum of the spin dash beyond the initial burst of energy generated.

[FriendBot]

Actively wanting Forces to fail is pretty dumb and selfish, if you ask me.

I mean, Forces so far isn't making me "OMG HYPE AF" atm but I do like the elements it has, a bit more serious tone to the game while still being the cartoony feel of Sonic. But you don't see me, "BAH I DON'T LIKE THIS GAME! HOPE IT BOMBS HARDER THAN BOOM!"

[Blue Blood]

I wanted Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric to bomb. I actually really wanted it to be great at first, but once we saw real footage of the game, I wanted it to bomb because we knew it was going to be bad. Any bad product deserves to do poorly at market. Though of course definitions of "bad" will vary and some do like it, I think we can all agree that that particular game was rife with perfectly fair reasons for disdain. The same goes for  Sonic 4. E1 was a success despite the horrible reception it got from fans, which was really disappointing to me. E2 made improvements that, while appreciated, were considered "too little, too late".

But Forces doesn't yet look bad. Honestly, it looks like it's going to be pretty solid at least. It's not my ideal either and there's so much that I wish it did differently. Wanting it to fail though because it's not the game I want would be selfish and incredibly short-sighted.

What happens when a product fails? Companies lose money, consumers lose faith, partners lose interest. It's not good for anyone and sends out a very bad message. Just look at Sonic's reputation, and Sonic 4 particularly. It's unlikely that the series will ever shake it, especially if it's only games like Generations and Mania that harken back to the "good old days" that do well. 

You should hope that products are going to be good, and that success will come with that. And that if a product isn't good, that the producers will recognise what went wrong and seek to rectify it. I want Forces to be successful, but at the same time for SEGA to acknowledge the voices that are raising concerns about things like nostalgia pandering and unfulfilling gameplay.

Failures are unsustainable.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, SonicDude said:

I only care about Sonic Mania, so I hope for your sake Forces fucks up hard and then Sonic Team says "let's try the Adventure formula again then, people hating on boost now shit."

That's a waste of time that's really just gonna strain ya, I'm afraid. I mean honestly, the chances of SEGA having Sonic Team go back to the Adventure playstyle as opposed to just making something new? Give SEGA's track record, it's not hard to tell which is more likely.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

 

Instead, it's far better to foster a more healthy discussion about how to include more Adventure era mechanics alongside the successful boost gameplay. There are core elements of Sonic's Adventure-era gameplay already present, such as with the homing attack -- which has survival all the turmoil of the Sonic franchise and remains on of Sonic's most consistent 3D gameplay mechanics. For example, I'm sure it could be possible to reintegrate the spin dash into the boost gameplay, in certain situations; using the boost to extended the momentum of the spin dash beyond the initial burst of energy generated.

Now, now . I totally agree that suggesting or hoping something will fail except for very edge cases, isn't really a productive use of anyone time. Not going to prtend i I isn't a common notion I've heard people say over podcasts, one recently being the super best friends that they hope the 3d game will fail and so they will only make 2d sonic from now on. Its common, but outside of very specific cases, it isn't productive for a multitude of reasons, mental enegery might be better spent in other places. Maybe creating and doing things that make you happy. I feel, that's just me personally. I don't think you are obligated to want something to succeed, but hoping something fails is a different thing entirely. 

Short versions: I don't think actually discussing that while more healthy is more helpful. Sega seems to have already decided what they want to do and include and despite what ruby eclipse about being more ready or willing to take criticism, don't actually seem to care at all.They are on a path and seem to be doing what they feel is the correct way. 

Heck even the games failure has chances to yield no actual productive results whatsoever, we are dealing with a company that seems to have no actual idea how to take and analyze criticism in any constructive way. 

[Chris Knopps]

Well, wouldn't say I want the game to outright fail myself.

I may have preference toward Mania and SEGA of America at the present but still. EXPECTING it to fail and WANTING it to fail are two different things.

[Kintor]

25 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Now, now . I totally agree that suggesting or hoping something will fail except for very edge cases, isn't really a productive use of anyone time. Not going to prtend i I isn't a common notion I've heard people say over podcasts, one recently being the super best friends that they hope the 3d game will fail and so they will only make 2d sonic from now on. Its common, but outside of very specific cases, it isn't productive for a multitude of reasons, mental enegery might be better spent in other places. Maybe creating and doing things that make you happy. I feel, that's just me personally. I don't think you are obligated to want something to succeed, but hoping something fails is a different thing entirely. 

I need to respond to this, however. This is something that I feel, i never got an answer to, how does your suggest people have been fostering adventure discussion for years, to the degree in which hypothetical threads on multiple websites ban talk about a hypothetical 3rd game. Or restrict it to one part of the forum, because the talk is so all encompassing, there is an obvious desire for such content and there has been plenty of discussion. Forums, youtube videos ect ect ect. You don't think sega knows this, they do. Ruby eclipse knows, but there hasn't been any change in course in what they are doing in fact with the recent reveal of sonic forces they seem to have doubled down on not doing that. 

So I ask you , how does that help? Obviously having a good discussion about the benefits of gameplay is better than yelling and telling people to die. However, sega already knows people want things and have ideas for things and haven't choose to do them, hell people have made fun games with multiple sonic games in 3d, one is just a mod of generations. They just don't care. And I don't see how the discussion actually helps anything, if sega doesn't actually care enough to peruse anything like that. Unless this is for people who want to make their own games, to which yes that's useful , I doubt most of the people in these threads have aspirations to make their own game. But are discussing what they want in future.

There's no denying that it's far harder to get Sega to listen then it ever should be. Back in 2011, like so many others, I made commends highly supportive of Sonic Generations, that given the success and general popularity of the game that Sega should make more just like it in the future. That's no say something with the reimaged classic levels or the whole time travel thing but a direct sequel to Sonic Generations, as a continuation of the now more refined boost gameplay, seemed a logical progression for the Sonic franchise. The period from Sonic Unleashed to Sonic Generations did much restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise as whole, there were still many arguments along the way but overall things were getting better, asking Sega to do more of what was already working seemed the most obvious request in the world.

Instead what we got next every nearly destroyed the entire Sonic franchise. Lost World was a failed experiment that foolishly removed the popular boost gameplay, only further alienating the majority of Sonic fans by making the game exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Not that anyone card with Lost World was finally ported to PC some years later, the game was so terrible Sonic fans didn't want to touch it even when it became more widely available.

Then we had Sonic Boom... which I can only describe as Sega of America’s brazen attempt to seize control of the Sonic franchise and the destiny of Sega as a whole. Sega of America found their own pet development team in Big Red Button, which from what I understand Sega of America might have been secretly bankrolling for years before Sonic Boom in anticipation for this power play. Heck, Sega of America even managed to cancel the successful Jazwares line of Sonic toys, to be replaced by Sonic Boom toys manufactured at Takara Tommy. Of course, I shouldn't need to recount what happened next with Sonic Boom; the game was a catastrophic failure that did more to damage the Sonic franchise then Sonic 06 ever did. That was pretty much the end for Sega of America has it had existed since the 90s, the failure of Sonic Boom no doubt gave Sega of Japan the excuse they needed to initiate massive layoffs at Sega of America, so that nothing like Sonic Boom could ever happen again.

Still, here we are in 2017 and things are starting to look up: Big Red Button is history, Sega of America has been humbled and Nintendo exclusive games for multiplatform franchises are no longer seen as a good idea. I think that with Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania we are starting to see a greater emphasis on what the Sonic fanbase has actually been asking for, that Sega is indeed finally listening. As for what that might mean for more Adventure era gameplay, it's difficult to say. Personally, I believe that the success of Sonic Forces will help to restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise and give Sonic Team a bit more breathing room in the future. After all, I think that Iizuka is still quite fond of the Adventure era, Shadow is apparently is favourite character. But that all remains to be seen, the future of the Sonic franchise will decided by how Sonic Forces preforms.

[Maxtiis]

I get the feeling that if the Adventure gameplay were to comeback it would only happen if Sonic Team knew exactly what it was we wanted from it. There's so much more to consider when making a game like that as opposed to something like Sonic Mania (I know its not Sonic Team but work with me here) where the game is a style just about everybody loves whereas the reception to Adventure's gameplay has become very wishy-washy since the rerelease in 2012. I still loved many of the gameplay styles Adventure 1 & 2 but when I always hear people say "Only 1/2 of Adventure 1 and only 1/3 of Adventure 2 are good," and "The Adventure games haven't aged well at all," both of which have some merit (although I feel these arguments are highly flawed due to generalization) so I don't blame Sonic Team for not wanting to attempt another Adventure game when people would automatically expect to fail upon arrival, not to mention that the expectations from die-hard fans would be so enormous that I couldn't even fathom the pressure they'd be under to make it live up to them. 

At this point I believe the best way to show Sonic Team what's best suited for a new Sonic Adventure would be a community led effort to make a fan game with only the aspects of Sonic Adventure we'd all agree as being worth returning to. Problem is this is never going to happen with the way things are now. We as a community are so infamously fickle over every detail that there's no way we could band together like this and decide whats best for a 3-D adventure platformer; it'd be the ultimate example of too many cooks. And that's besides there's still the fact none of us here know how to code and design a 3-D game to begin with; all we are is a group of armchair critics with the constant paranoia (yes I said paranoia again, but that's exactly what it is) that our favorite anthropomorphic blue hedgehog will disappoint us again.

I'm speaking sincerely here because I too have been disappointed by the past five years of releases for Sonic but I'm still going to hold out hope that Forces will wow me the same why Generations did; in fact I hope it'll wow me even more! I also wish Sonic Team would return to the Adventure formula (moreso I hope they can make a full length game with Sonic's gameplay with the other characters adapted to that style's type of objective), but the time just doesn't seem right for it. Maybe when Takashi Iizuka decides to retire the new director that steps up will decide the team is capable of making a new game like this, but who really knows what'll happen when that time comes?

What I do know is whining that you hope Forces fails so that Sonic Team'll be forced to make another Sonic Adventure (which wouldn't happen) is childish.

[Chris Knopps]

Ehh...

Love it or hate it the game play in both Adventure titles DID suit the characters and their capabilities/personalities fairly well. It's just your overly sensitive, purist oriented "not in MY sawnic!!" types that bawk and bawl over everything that wasn't Sonic and/or Shadow centric game play wise.

Super fast hedgehogs. Check. Super brilliant scientists. Check. Super skilled hunters. Check.

Fast hedgehogs go fast, Brilliant scientists use tech and weapons. Skilled hunters... You get the idea.

And in their own ways each game play was focused on being constantly on the move. Each fast paced in different manners. Not fast paced the same way as Sonic perhaps, but in their own ways they kept you on the move constantly, pushing you to hurry up in various ways.

For all the bawling and bickering folks do for "per the norm" and "solo-Sonic" they have zero problems doing the exact same thing when the idea of other ways of playing and other characters do come into the picture.

To hell with playing as a bunch of characters that serve as nothing but re-skinned Sonic's with a varying move or two. Leave that to the 2D series. Adventure's did it right in making each character really special, really stand out in distinct and definitive ways.

And hey, if it sold once, or rather, TWICE, it will sell again.

 

[D.K.]

7 hours ago, SonicDude said:

I only care about Sonic Mania, so I hope for your sake Forces fucks up hard and then Sonic Team says "let's try the Adventure formula again then, people hating on boost now shit." And really the Spin Dash from Adventure 1/2 was fun as fuck, they just need to tweak it to make it more stable since they are pretending to care about quality now. But part of the fun was being able to moon jump by Spin Dashing and then jumping off an incline.

Usually I'd write an insanely long essay about everything wrong your statement, your selfishness and your logic.

But considering this is the same fandom that wants the Archie comics dead because of a single chapter name, I'm not going to question it, and I'll assume this is just a horribly executed April Fools joke.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Maxtiis said:

At this point I believe the best way to show Sonic Team what's best suited for a new Sonic Adventure would be a community led effort to make a fan game with only the aspects of Sonic Adventure we'd all agree as being worth returning to. Problem is this is never going to happen with the way things are now. We as a community are so infamously fickle over every detail that there's no way we could band together like this and decide whats best for a 3-D adventure platformer; it'd be the ultimate example of too many cooks. And that's besides there's still the fact none of us here know how to code and design a 3-D game to begin with; all we are is a group of armchair critics with the constant paranoia (yes I said paranoia again, but that's exactly what it is) that our favorite anthropomorphic blue hedgehog will disappoint us again.

 

Short version: The fact that we perceive and sega has backed up the notion that they are so inept at understanding criticism and actually interacting with their fanbase,  that they need people to make a whole game for them to understand where their criticism lies is an entirely other problem within itself. That's if they just don't care. 

2nd, how would that hypothetical game communicate tone, and characterization, two other things that very much are elements of sonic adventure? People would have to make whole cutsceness, do voice work. You already see that the point and click adventure big game is delayed because games that aren't 3d platformers take time to make, but a 3d platformer with multiple playable characters?

not to even mention the ones that actually already exist out there, some with adventure assets and everything. So we need to make a game that says in bold letters " SONIC ADVENTURE CRITICISM GAME " for them to understand to actually pay attention. if that's actually the case, thats a problem. But that's if isn't the likely alternative, they see it and just don't give a shit.  

[StaticMania]

2 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

To hell with playing as a bunch of characters that serve as nothing but re-skinned Sonic's with a varying move or two. Leave that to the 2D series. Adventure's did it right in making each character really special, really stand out in distinct and definitive ways.

Dude bro, the Advance games didn't roll like that...even if those "B" button moves didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. At least Sonic, Amy, and Cream were all distinctive with their moves. Differences that would function just the same as if they were transferred into Adventure styled 3D games.

 

Sonic T. Hedgehog: Homing Attack, Slide/Roll(3D), Bounce...

 

Amy Rose: Hammer swing, Spinning hammer, High Jump(if hammer hits spring)...

 

Cream T. Rabbit: Flying, Chao, Chao shield(if used while flying)...

[Salamander]

The idea that Sonic Boom represented some kind of subversive power play conceived of by SoA is not wholly unrealistic - had the Boom project become an unparalleled success, it would likely have prompted a significant reassessment of where the franchise's focus and funding would go - but one should not overestimate SoA's authority and independence; in reality, the Boom project will have been mandated right from the top in Japan, based on the observation that Sonic was more popular in the west and that thus western developers with western oversight might produce something more palatable to the majority of consumers than Sonic Team's largely mediocre backlog.  But the failure of the Boom games and Rise Of Lyric specifically was not a bigger disaster for the franchise than '06.  The series's reputation had not substantially clawed its way back from the gutter Shadow and '06 had plunged it into, certainly not to the heights it had once held, so while Rise Of Lyric was certainly a blow, it only cemented an existing impression, and its period as a laughing stock was brief compared to the longevity of '06 in that regard.  Already, nobody remembers it, because it was just another bad Sonic game; the norm for many, in other words.  And yet for all SoA's loss of influence, Takashi Iizuka is even now overseeing the franchise from the west, working with western developers on Sonic Mania; the ideas that backed the Boom project have not wholly dissipated.  As for Lost World, it would always have been Nintendo-exclusive anyway.  Like Colours, it was just another lower-budget filler title between higher-performance console titles, based on a gameplay idea that the fans themselves had been the chief proponents of; Sonic Team always listens, but it rarely listens carefully.  It was the right place and time for an experiment, but once again Sonic Team bungled it; the game failed not because they changed tack from an acceptable style but because it was bad - as usual.  Sega's talent has been no less deficient than its judgement.

I make no predictions about the definite future of the franchise.  But Sonic Mania is built on surer foundations; it has people's goodwill because it is based on well-regarded work.  Forces has a much shakier footing.  I don't share the opinion of some that a visibly, consciously retro title will become the prototype for the franchise's future from now on, but it's easy to see how its success might result in more ambitious modernisations of the classic gameplay.  The success or failure of Forces will impact on the significance of the Mania outcome.  There are no grounds at present to assume that Forces will flop - it will probably be at least a modest success - but if it did, the future might become unpredictable.  There's all to play for, in other words.  For the sake of the 3D fans, I hope the Forces team are putting their heart into their work.

[Chris Knopps]

On 4/1/2017 at 4:59 AM, FFWF said:

The idea that Sonic Boom represented some kind of subversive power play conceived of by SoA is not wholly unrealistic - had the Boom project become an unparalleled success, it would likely have prompted a significant reassessment of where the franchise's focus and funding would go - but one should not overestimate SoA's authority and independence; in reality, the Boom project will have been mandated right from the top in Japan, based on the observation that Sonic was more popular in the west and that thus western developers with western oversight might produce something more palatable to the majority of consumers than Sonic Team's largely mediocre backlog.  But the failure of the Boom games and Rise Of Lyric specifically was not a bigger disaster for the franchise than '06.  The series's reputation had not substantially clawed its way back from the gutter Shadow and '06 had plunged it into, certainly not to the heights it had once held, so while Rise Of Lyric was certainly a blow, it only cemented an existing impression, and its period as a laughing stock was brief compared to the longevity of '06 in that regard.  Already, nobody remembers it, because it was just another bad Sonic game; the norm for many, in other words.  And yet for all SoA's loss of influence, Takashi Iizuka is even now overseeing the franchise from the west, working with western developers on Sonic Mania; the ideas that backed the Boom project have not wholly dissipated.  As for Lost World, it would always have been Nintendo-exclusive anyway.  Like Colours, it was just another lower-budget filler title between higher-performance console titles, based on a gameplay idea that the fans themselves had been the chief proponents of; Sonic Team always listens, but it rarely listens carefully.  It was the right place and time for an experiment, but once again Sonic Team bungled it; the game failed not because they changed tack from an acceptable style but because it was bad - as usual.  Sega's talent has been no less deficient than its judgement.

I make no predictions about the definite future of the franchise.  But Sonic Mania is built on surer foundations; it has people's goodwill because it is based on well-regarded work.  Forces has a much shakier footing.  I don't share the opinion of some that a visibly, consciously retro title will become the prototype for the franchise's future from now on, but it's easy to see how its success might result in more ambitious modernisations of the classic gameplay.  The success or failure of Forces will impact on the significance of the Mania outcome.  There are no grounds at present to assume that Forces will flop - it will probably be at least a modest success - but if it did, the future might become unpredictable.  There's all to play for, in other words.  For the sake of the 3D fans, I hope the Forces team are putting their heart into their work.

Even if Forces is a success to some degree, I doubt it will have any influence against the Mania title as, profit or not, Forces just isn't likely to compete in the long run against something solid from a game play perspective, something hitting all the right fan demands, and something created by a team with a much better track record.

The franchise is considered mediocre because of poor titles and staff with a terrible record. People judge the franchise not only on its own reputation but the people behind it, and when you compare the likes of Iizuka to Whitehead, it's not hard to see a change of face is JUST as key as a change of direction. Just because a team is changing how they make a title, if the people behind it are the same then consumers are still going to stick their nose up and sneer because they just don't care for the people making the game.

(Edit)

I think this idea clicks, but that's just me.

[Zippo]

Looked numerous times just to make sure. Sega hasn't said anything officially about Sonic being the only playable character. Which is a far cry from Sonic 4 Episode 1, Colors, Generations and Lost World. They made it very clear from the day those games were announced that Sonic was going to be sole playable character. This is different. If it is true, i wouldn't expect the other characters to be much different from Sonic, however. That is absolutely a good thing, to me. If it's the 3&K/Advance way of handling multiple playable characters, then I'm perfectly fine with that. 

[DonWaffleleven]

I heard some rumblings on here about us needing our own "vision game" so to speak that lays down what Adventure fans want from the Adventure playstyle to serve as a guide to Sega on doing it right.

This might be an imperfect step but isn't there that "Sonic World" fangame that's a bunch of 3D stages with tons of playable characters? I like it, I've probably played it more than I have Colours or Generations.

[Soniman]

On 3/31/2017 at 6:04 PM, Josh said:

Meshing everything together and focusing too much on continuity and references is exactly why I don't enjoy reading Archie much, actually. Feels too much like cluttered nonsense that's trying to appease every Sonic fan and not enough like just trying to tell a fun story about Sonic characters.

 I also thought we were trying to avoid referencing previous locations and nostalgia pandering and stuff.

Couldn't disagree more with this honestly.  I know many non Archie sonic fans always groan when suggestions of the games taking influence from the comic come up but.... Yeah it really could, if not in the obvious (decent writing and faithful characterization) then definitely in world building. The world and locations are consistent, the characters have a place in it and aren't randomly changing roles or standing around twiddling their thumbs. 

Tbh the games were on the right track with Unleashed and finally giving us an idea of Sonic's world and then,  promptly not doing anything with it (probably because no other game since HAS been on the planet, it's been in space, a time void, a... Mini Planet and now a ruined future or different dimension?). I just want them to flesh out the world instead of always changing everything and never having a consistent anything for more then maybe two games.  

It one aspect I miss of the adventure days where sonic characters had lives outside of daily heroics and there was at least something if a defined world, even if it was a bit to far on the realistic side 

[Wraith]

55 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Couldn't disagree more with this honestly.  I know many non Archie sonic fans always groan when suggestions of the games taking influence from the comic come up but.... Yeah it really could, if not in the obvious (decent writing and faithful characterization) then definitely in world building. The world and locations are consistent, the characters have a place in it and aren't randomly changing roles or standing around twiddling their thumbs. 

Tbh the games were on the right track with Unleashed and finally giving us an idea of Sonic's world and then,  promptly not doing anything with it (probably because no other game since HAS been on the planet, it's been in space, a time void, a... Mini Planet and now a ruined future or different dimension?). I just want them to flesh out the world instead of always changing everything and never having a consistent anything for more then maybe two games.  

It one aspect I miss of the adventure days where sonic characters had lives outside of daily heroics and there was at least something if a defined world, even if it was a bit to far on the realistic side 

I'm not against fleshing out the world though. There are just other ways of doing this that actually fit the nature of the series as an episodic one about a nomad. Sonic's place is ill defined because he tends to travel a lot, and his friends like him and want to follow him. I'm not how much more of a "place" they need beyond that with the exception of dutiful characters like Knuckles and walking plotholes like Silver showing up where they shouldn't be, but a sharper writer could fix that pretty easily by thinking more carefully about the scenario of the game. The way to flesh the characters out would be good writing. Many of them have hobbies and details in official bios that the games don't actually make use of, so they've clearly thought about it. They just need better writers.

The locations in Sonic's world are also pretty fleshed out on their own. They're just kept separate from eachother to maintain the episodic feel. I'm not sure what making more connections between them would add aside from confusing new players. If you want to prevent another Lost Hex from happening, you just have to make sure wherever Sonic goes next is interesting in it's own right like Little Planet, Station Square or Angel Island was and make sure it's not too inconsistent tone wise for it to be set in the same world as those.

The last thing I want from a new Sonic game is to start the game and have characters talking about stuff that happened back in the dreamcast days or whatever, though. Like, you guys do know those games are over 15 years old and the current crop of kids wouldn't even know what's going on, right?

 

[Adamabba]

If they're gonna do any kind of references to past games, something subtle like what they did in SA2 with the Artificial Chaos, Knuckles reciting the Master Emerald chant, and the newspaper with Tails being awarded a Chaos Emerald would be optimal so that some of the older fans can appreciate a cool reference that connects the games, and the new players wouldn't notice they're missing anything.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Zippo said:

Looked numerous times just to make sure. Sega hasn't said anything officially about Sonic being the only playable character. Which is a far cry from Sonic 4 Episode 1, Colors, Generations and Lost World. They made it very clear from the day those games were announced that Sonic was going to be sole playable character. This is different. If it is true, i wouldn't expect the other characters to be much different from Sonic, however. That is absolutely a good thing, to me. If it's the 3&K/Advance way of handling multiple playable characters, then I'm perfectly fine with that. 

Since it seems SEGA has a thing for using old/scrapped content lately don't be surprised if we see a concept version of Shadow show up.

[Celestia]

One thing I'd like to see more of is references outside of cutscenes. For example if they brought back the "beastiary" Unleashed had, they could have references to older games here and there in descriptions for enemies that debuted in older titles, and of course if there's character bios they could bring up certain important stuff that happened with those characters.

I also feel like callbacks in dialogue work best when they're 1) vague and 2) referring to previous interactions between characters rather than simply...events, if that makes sense? For example, one of my favourite continuity nods in ShTH is in that one ARK level where Sonic asks Shadow if he remembered their last race (more like fight, but whatever). Something like that feels more natural than, say, Sonic off-handily mentioning the Storybook games in Generations, or (here's a hypothetical:) if Station Square appears again and someone were to be like "Whoa remember when this place was destroyed by a water god??" What I'm saying is it's fine as long as it seems like something people would actually say.

And as for kids being out of the loop, yeah, that's why they shouldn't force these kinds of references all the time, and I agree the series should remain primarily episodic. But on the other hand, this sort of thing would be a small incentive for new fans to check out the older stuff, and SEGA hasn't stopped rereleasing, uh, most of the games.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

One thing I'd like to see more of is references outside of cutscenes. For example if they brought back the "beastiary" Unleashed had, they could have references to older games here and there in descriptions for enemies that debuted in older titles, and of course if there's character bios they could bring up certain important stuff that happened with those characters.

I also feel like callbacks in dialogue work best when they're 1) vague and 2) referring to previous interactions between characters rather than simply...events, if that makes sense? For example, one of my favourite continuity nods in ShTH is in that one ARK level where Sonic asks Shadow if he remembered their last race (more like fight, but whatever). Something like that feels more natural than, say, Sonic off-handily mentioning the Storybook games in Generations, or (here's a hypothetical:) if Station Square appears again and someone were to be like "Whoa remember when this place was destroyed by a water god??" What I'm saying is it's fine as long as it seems like something people would actually say.

And as for kids being out of the loop, yeah, that's why they shouldn't force these kinds of references all the time, and I agree the series should remain primarily episodic. But on the other hand, this sort of thing would be a small incentive for new fans to check out the older stuff, and SEGA hasn't stopped rereleasing, uh, most of the games.

I highly doubt the "kids" of today know any less than the oldies do about the Adventure games, and if nothing else, more probably know about the Adventure games than say, Lost World, Black Knight, etc.

Don't be so quick to doubt the taste/knowledge of todays youth.

[Celestia]

Well, the Adventures were about 17 years ago and when I say "kids" I mean like, 5 ~ 12 year olds. I think it's fair to assume that most fans in that range started with the games from the last few years, and as far as I know, we have no way of knowing how many of 'em have gone through the series' backlog.

And that's why we need something like Mega Collection but for the Adventure games--*brick'd*

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Well, the Adventures were about 17 years ago and when I say "kids" I mean like, 5 ~ 12 year olds. I think it's fair to assume that most fans in that range started with the games from the last few years, and as far as I know, we have no way of knowing how many of 'em have gone through the series' backlog.

And that's why we need something like Mega Collection but for the Adventure games--*brick'd*

Mmm...

I'd say at even that age knowledge should be pretty common, if nothing else thanks to the digital re-releases on recent gen consoles, plus the help of fans who have a fling for those titles passing them on to their kids.

Now games like Shadow, 06, Secret Rings...

Doubt many kids would be interested, nor their parents.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Well, the Adventures were about 17 years ago and when I say "kids" I mean like, 5 ~ 12 year olds. I think it's fair to assume that most fans in that range started with the games from the last few years, and as far as I know, we have no way of knowing how many of 'em have gone through the series' backlog.

If this is actually that much of a problem, those references probably shouldn't be too prominent.

 

It's not that big a deal otherwise...