Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Zaysho]

A while back I mentioned I'd like to see the potential third gameplay style (which Sonic Team is apparently treating as a closely guarded secret based on earlier reveals) be something that is separate from the main gameplay styles and suggested something like the Sky Chase levels or Rush Adventure's boat levels. I'm not sure if that's necessarily interesting enough or worth the effort for Sonic Team to actually be secretive about and try to hype up. So I've been thinking a potential alternative to that would be something like bringing back the Chao Gardens. I mean, that probably won't be the case. I'm not even sure if that can even fit with how Sonic controls in a boost game, unless it were to operate more like the Tiny Chao Garden in Advance or even just a little "Chao Adventure" sort of mini-game that's optional and serves as a break from both the modern and classic styles already on offer, potentially with bonuses that can be used in the main game, but ultimately something that can be ignored and, unlike the Adventure games, is not required for 100% completion.

I'm sure I'm way off here, but whenever I think about the whole "third gameplay style" deal, my mind immediately wants to look for any alternative that's not the one Sonic Team will probably actually settle on. This is the sort of thing that I think would be a pleasant surprise for some fans, though, and seems like something that'd be worth the annoying build-up.

[Marcello]

I don't see anything wrong with kids not getting the references as long as the plot is fully understandable on its own.

[Bowbowis]

Aye. Just because the series is episodic doesn't mean it can't make callbacks or build up recurring characters and locales. As long as it doesn't render the plot incomprehensible to newbies it really shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, even if they do decide to build more directly on elements established in a past game there's this wonderful tool called exposition which you can use to bring newcomers up to speed on pertinent information. It's not like you need to give an hour long synopsis of a past game, just explain the relevant information through dialogue:

Spoiler

Sonic (reading document): ". . . first theorized by Professor Gerald . . ." Eggman's grandfather came up with this?

Tails: Don't act so surprised. After all, he was the foremost scientific mind of his generation.

short blurbs on the loading screen:

Spoiler

ANGEL ISLAND

An airborne landmass kept aloft by the power of the Master Emerald. It used to be part of the mainland, where it was home to a tribe of echidnas, but broke off when the tribe tried to steal the Master Emerald from its altar, angering the god Chaos in the process. Chaos was sealed within the Master Emerald by the tribe chieftain's daughter, but not before it had wiped out most of her people. Today, the island's sole resident is Knuckles, the guardian of the Master Emerald and the last surviving decedent of the echidna tribe.

and/or other stuff and you're golden.

[Salamander]

11 hours ago, DonWaffleleven said:

I heard some rumblings on here about us needing our own "vision game" so to speak that lays down what Adventure fans want from the Adventure playstyle to serve as a guide to Sega on doing it right.

This might be an imperfect step but isn't there that "Sonic World" fangame that's a bunch of 3D stages with tons of playable characters? I like it, I've probably played it more than I have Colours or Generations.

One thing I was thinking of in this regard was perhaps attempting to push for a remake of Sonic Adventure.  Remakes are pretty popular these days (...for developers), and remaking Adventure would force Sonic Team to really engage with the mechanics and understand how they work and why they were designed that way; to re-examine the entire game and its appeal.  Risky, mind.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

10 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Now games like Shadow, 06, Secret Rings...

Shadow and Secret Rings actually stand a chance since the former does do good for Shadow's character in the true ending and the latter since it gets referenced in-universe and actually got positive reception back in its heyday unlike its PS3/Xbox 360 counterpart.

Besides StH is unbelievably  (albeit unintentionally comedic) and Secret Rings has one of the more engaging narratives to back it up. 

Not to mention that those games even upon revisiting,  do have their positive quirks. Well, more redeeming qualities than the one in the middle anyway.

 

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

...do have their positive quirks. Well, more redeeming qualities than the one in the middle anyway.

 

Well yeah, but unfortunately...and ironically, no game any time soon is gonna do Shadow's character that good way "post development" besides the one which you happen to be referring to. It's a positive.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Well yeah, but unfortunately...and ironically, no game any time soon is gonna do Shadow's character that good way "post development" besides the one which you happen to be referring to. It's a positive.

Oh yes, I'll admit, 06 did do Shadow himself, more right than wrong with his story. Heck, I even dug the team relationship between him, Rouge and Omega in that game.

Still though, nowadays only Sonic would remember such events so it doesn't carry over like the overs did, especially since Sonic wasn't present during all of Shadow's story. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jango]

One thing I'd like to see more of is references outside of cutscenes. For example if they brought back the "beastiary" Unleashed had, they could have references to older games here and there in descriptions for enemies that debuted in older titles, and of course if there's character bios they could bring up certain important stuff that happened with those characters.

I also feel like callbacks in dialogue work best when they're 1) vague and 2) referring to previous interactions between characters rather than simply...events, if that makes sense? For example, one of my favourite continuity nods in ShTH is in that one ARK level where Sonic asks Shadow if he remembered their last race (more like fight, but whatever). Something like that feels more natural than, say, Sonic off-handily mentioning the Storybook games in Generations, or (here's a hypothetical:) if Station Square appears again and someone were to be like "Whoa remember when this place was destroyed by a water god??" What I'm saying is it's fine as long as it seems like something people would actually say.

And as for kids being out of the loop, yeah, that's why they shouldn't force these kinds of references all the time, and I agree the series should remain primarily episodic. But on the other hand, this sort of thing would be a small incentive for new fans to check out the older stuff, and SEGA hasn't stopped rereleasing, uh, most of the games.

 

So basically fan-service? I dig that.

[Chris Knopps]

We're praising Sonic 06...

This franchise really HAS been on the decline. lol

[Shaddy Zaphod]

No, it really hasn't.

[Meta77]

I like 06 so yea it has it's haters and fans.

 

But wht does it matter if a kid does not understand a call back?

[Wraith]

We probably shouldn't turn this thread into another "06 wasn't that bad" discussion. I don't know we got there from a discussion about callbacks, but aight.

[JosepHenry]

Even '06 and Shadow The Hedgehog have good parts.

[MegasonicZX]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

We're praising Sonic 06...

This franchise really HAS been on the decline. lol

The game was a massive failure in a lot of places but that doesn't me we can't point out SOME of the good in it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

25 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

We're praising Sonic 06...

No we're not. Don't even try to twist it that way. Any little good 06 did was over-swept by the entourage of things it did terrible and ruined.

And we still have that game to thank for making SEGA afraid of the Adventure gameplay style to boot, so don't kid yourself just because we aren't completely lambasting that failure of a Sonic game once in a while from time to time.

[Marcello]

6 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Even '06 and Shadow The Hedgehog have good parts.

Well, ShTH was the funniest Sonic game.

[Blue Blood]

14 minutes ago, Josh said:

We probably shouldn't turn this thread into another "06 wasn't that bad" discussion. I don't know we got there from a discussion about callbacks, but aight.

Well looking at the posts that come after this, that's exactly the sort of discussion we want to turn this thread into.

It's either that, or boost and physics again. Choose your poison. 

[JosepHenry]

Ok, Sonic '06 and ShadowTH were really bad games, but you can have fun with them no problem.

NEXT

[Zippo]

On 4/3/2017 at 1:01 PM, Marcello said:

Well, ShTH was the funniest Sonic game.

Truth.

[Wraith]

12 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Well looking at the posts that come after this, that's exactly the sort of discussion we want to turn this thread into.

It's either that, or boost and physics again. Choose your poison. 

At least the boost vaguely ties into this game.

[JosepHenry]

This thread was silent for almost 24 hours, what happend?

You guys should go back to the Mania topic. Leave this topic sleeping until E3.

[Blue Blood]

34 minutes ago, Josh said:

At least the boost vaguely ties into this game.

Sure, but at this point any discussions are bigger rehashes than Sonic 4.

So, Forces. With everything having had time to sink in, even though there's not actually been a lot to sink in, I'm still confused about the game. After Unleashed came and went, we've seen a serious shift to focusing on simple plots and focusing on the Classics. Colours stripped away all of the seriousness and plot focus that appeared from Adventure onwards, and Sonic 4 came about at the same time. After the series finally seemed to be finding its feet after so long, Lost World was an oddly bold and safe move that tried to mimic a classic aesthetic with Mario inspiration and new gameplay. It flopped. We've had worse games, but none that came straight off of a good-streak. 

Forces is talking steps back to the gameplay of Generations and some of the Adventure/otherwise more serious characteristics. It's got a really split personality going on. Despite the fact there's nothing saying this game will be less than adequate right now, Forces is really struggling to make an impression. I don't think I've ever been so neutral about an upcoming Sonic game. Everything else had always really excited me, or it's been blatant trash from day one. I need to see more of this game. I need to know why I should care. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Sega's for once not being totally transparent and letting the entire game get leaked early. That's a pretty uncommon thing for them, I think we just might not be used to it.

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

This thread was silent for almost 24 hours, what happend?

You guys should go back to the Mania topic. Leave this topic sleeping until E3.

I came back.

Only thing I want back from Sonic 06 is the Mach Speed element. It provides a thrill where thrill is needed instead of over-saturating the game with that thrill ala boost to where it's no longer thrilling.

[Blue Blood]

41 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Sega's for once not being totally transparent and letting the entire game get leaked early. That's a pretty uncommon thing for them, I think we just might not be used to it.

No, it's not that. I'm more than happy for them to rethink their strategies and not show off everything right away. Last year's teaser was fine. But the way that they finally showcased the game last month with a random clip of gameplay that doesn't actually show anything new was a bit of a misfire. Last year's teaser showed a game that looked like Generations 2, and despite SEGA protesting otherwise, they've yet to show that it's not.

The issue isn't that they've not shown a lot. But nothing that they have shown is particularly invigorating, unless you want something that looks like a clone of a game that is now approaching six years old.