Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Marcello]

1 hour ago, DarkXZA said:

All it took is seconds of footage for you guys to go ape shit, if Classic's gameplay is as good as his Generations's then that not something to complain about. What that? too early to tell? ...EXACTLY

2

I would say it is.

28 minutes ago, TailsMania said:

Feels like Gens got a free-pass because critics and fans overlooked the poor classic gameplay due to the 20th year anniversary nostalgia angle. Forces won't be able to rely on nostalgia this time and based on the brief classic Green Hill gameplay we've seen (yes I'm late to the party, I know) which looked like utter crap to be perfectly honest. Feels like Forces could end up being a real mess, definitely divisive. Could undo all the good being generated by Mania.

 

If it got a free pass, I'd say it's because it looked and felt better than Sonic 4 at least.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Anybody else saw a Rsr on that classic stage?

[Meta77]

I look at classics gameplay and it literally screamed this is generations dlc we meant to release. 

[DarkXZA]

2 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

We've already seen certain things that give us the the impression that this isn't going to turn out well in that few seconds. 

But really, how much are we supposed to see before we're allowed to say we don't think this'll turn out good? I'm waiting Mr. Expert. 

Your free to think what you want dude, my point is that it's the same team that made Generations so it's more likely they can at least make it as good as Gens. In my opinion few seconds aren't enough to judge, even Classic in Gens had some straight lines and boosters. If you don't like how Classic Sonic plays in Gens then that's another story.

[Nepenthe]

Another thing I want to stress rules wise because I've seen it pop up too many times:

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It's not insightful to say that fans aren't an opinionated hive mind and thus disagree on things or position yourself as a victim for having a minority opinion. If you can't handle a particular sentiment, ignore it or leave. People are allowed to be hyped or disappointed.

While there hasn't been a lot of "Oh, that wacky Sonic fanbase!" posts in here, at least from what I've seen, the whole thing where people are getting particularly upset with people who aren't totally on board with Forces as a game needs to be toned down. This happens literally all the time, most notably with Lost World where the middling reviews created a huge backlash from people who stuck themselves in an echo chamber of positivity (although cynical echo chambers are no better. Fuck the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™ we had), and for the sake of your emotional health it's best to understand that the worst horse you can possibly bet on is Sonic Team, regardless of whether or not you're sure you'll enjoy whatever it is they're cooking up.

I'll probably clarify the rules list (WHICH YOU GUYS SHOULD READ AND FAMILIARIZE YOURSELVES WITH, BY THE WAY), but if there's one thing we should all understand, it's this:

If you wouldn't argue with a person for being excited for 10/20/30 seconds of footage, you shouldn't argue with a person for not being excited over 10/20/30 seconds of footage. Do not create double standards and try to determine which thoughts are socially taboo to be expressed in any given thread. Again, Lost World's review fallout is a lesson for you guys to never forget. If Forces comes back with a resounding "it's meh" from critics, I don't want to see a single one of you emotionally devastated or something, if for no other reason than because it's embarrassing. Keep your expectations in check, and live and let live.

(Also speaking of the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™, we're not doing that shit again either. Bitching day in and day out in general makes you an unpleasant arse to be around regardless of whether or not you think you're justified in doing it because of some bad gameplay or dumb screenshots. Remember and pay heed to this rule yourselves:

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Repeating that you don't like the art style 5000 times is spamming. You can discuss specifics in certain tangents of discussion, but initiating the same argument continuously is a no-go.

Seriously, if you think you're being obnoxious, you probably are.)

Now, if we're all on the same page about being cool and chill versus little shits, here's a monster mascot who dances better than you do. Happy thoughts!
 

 

[Meta77]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

Another thing I want to stress rules wise because I've seen it pop up too many times:

While there hasn't been a lot of "Oh, that wacky Sonic fanbase!" posts in here, at least from what I've seen, the whole thing where people are getting particularly upset with people who aren't totally on board with Forces as a game needs to be toned down. This happens literally all the time, most notably with Lost World where the middling reviews created a huge backlash from people who stuck themselves in an echo chamber of positivity (although cynical echo chambers are no better. Fuck the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™ we had), and for the sake of your emotional health it's best to understand that the worst horse you can possibly bet on is Sonic Team, regardless of whether or not you're sure you'll enjoy whatever it is they're cooking up.

I'll probably clarify the rules list (WHICH YOU GUYS SHOULD READ AND FAMILIARIZE YOURSELVES WITH, BY THE WAY), but if there's one thing we should all understand, it's this:

If you wouldn't argue with a person for being excited for 10/20/30 seconds of footage, you shouldn't argue with a person for not being excited over 10/20/30 seconds of footage. Do not create double standards for the thoughts that are socially taboo to be expressed in any given thread. Again, Lost World's review fallout is a lesson for you guys to never forget. If Forces comes back with a resounding "it's meh" from critics, I don't want to see a single one of you emotionally devastated or something, if for no other reason than because it's embarrassing. Keep your expectations in check, and live and let live.

(Also speaking of the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™, we're not doing that shit again either. Bitching day in and day out in general makes you an unpleasant arse to be around regardless of whether or not you think you're justified in doing it because of some bad gameplay or dumb screenshots. Remember and pay heed to this rule yourselves:

Seriously, if you think you're being obnoxious, you probably are.)

Now, if we're all on the same page about being cool and chill versus little shits, here's a monster mascot who dances better than you do. Happy thoughts!
 

 

I thought the song was called live and learn.

 

 

 

Hahaha. E3 boy oh boy is it going to get wild

[Blue Blood]

Not to totally disrail the topic further, but if I status this it'll get missed. I'm really sorry to anyone who really gets fed up with my shit. I just want to make it clear that I don't always mean to cause offence (and yes sometimes I honestly am taking shots - won't lie about that). But if you've ever got any beef with me, just PM me and we'll smooth it out. Of course, I'll make an effort to tone it down in the future too. But remember this rule:

[Daisy-Fan]

hmm that's strange to see people widely open about saying that Sonic Generation was not as good. Looking for that E3 this summer.

[BubbleButt TV]

14 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Fuck the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™ we had

 

15 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

speaking of the Rise of Lyric Hate Brigade™, we're not doing that shit again either

Whoa... what did I miss here? ?

Like, do I even want to know...?

[Mark1]

Is that Zone really Green Hill? Not seen any confirmation, and wouldn't be surprised if it was another Windy Hill situation because of the sandfalls. 

As for classic Sonic physics, think they will end up being better than in Generations but not 1:1 like in Mania. 

The new character is the only announced feature that I'm truly not feeling right now. 

The footage wasn't great, but after thinking about it more. Not sure if everything can be fully judged until we see full levels in action. Both Modern and Classic will be fun still I imagine. 

There are lots of questions to be answered, a lot of them aren't conclusive from the footage so far. Feel like one of the few who still has faith in this game. I'll keep hoping it does better than what has been shown.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

2 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

Is that Zone really Green Hill? Not seen any confirmation, and wouldn't be surprised if it was another Windy Hill situation because of the sandfalls. 

It kinda looks like GHz, but then again there are pyramids and sand waterfalls, so I'm starting to wonder if several zones were fused together because of whatever Eggman did to the world.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

I would also point out that, with people judging the game on just a few seconds of trailer footage, our impressions don't come from an empty void. Most of us danced the Sonic tango many, many, many times. Myself, after Sonic Lost world, I especially decided to pay close attention whether the next game would have a more focused and clean identity, because I felt Sonic Lost world collapsed in on itself by lack of a core soul. It felt like a giant pile of ideas on a shapeless heap, sufficating each other to death.

That's why I'm alarmed that right after I learn the director of Sonic Lost world is back, I witness new footage that feels utterly alien from the previous stuff I've seen. This is ringing all kinds of alarmbells in my head.
Sure, the sand may imply Green Hill zone is also in disrepair, but the art style feels utterly diffrent.
It's not so much that it's (potentially) Green hill zone, it's that it just looks out of place with the other established aesthetics.If it was Generations style detailed Green Hill zone, I'd have more peace with it.
Well, as far as "Oh god, Green hill zone agaaaaiin" exasperation can be called peace.

It comes across to me as a possible hint that the game's fighting with itself again, like Lost world was.
So sure, I don't have the real knowledge to know if something's wrong or not, but I'm starting to see subtle cracks.
 

[Sonikko]

It feels to me as if they tried to separate Classic from Modern more, aesthetically and thematically speaking. But if that's what they're trying to achieve, then why even have Classic in the game in the first place. I don't get it.

I don't think classic's sections will be atrocious, but, I already konw I won't be enjoying it that much after the first run. Everytime I boot up Generations (and I played it more than 50 hours) I always play the modern stages, I never ever go back to the classic ones, or the missions. It's not like they're bad, but they're not good either. Especially when we have Sonic Mania coming out, and even if that game rehashes some classic stages, the totally new ones are looking amazing. So that's the classic experience I'm looking forward to. What I wanted from Forces was a fully modern game that was not scared to go the extra mile. What we're getting is certainly not that. Hoping that the 3rd gameplay style will be good and it's not a fan character simulator because I wouldn't like that.

[Blue Blood]

58 minutes ago, Daisy-Fan said:

hmm that's strange to see people widely open about saying that Sonic Generation was not as good. Looking for that E3 this summer.

Most of us will agree that Generations was at least pretty good. But plenty of folk, for different reasons, want to see something different and aren't totally pleased to see what Forces is. That's all. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I've more than made it clear that I think Forces as a whole will be good, because it's just another of something already good, but I also think that classic AND modern as a game mechanic should be dropped. It's just that classic Sonic, while having an audience, is completely incapable of pleasantly surprising anyone anymore. It's bound to either be same-old, same-old, or be worse somehow. That's why, as much as I know I'll like Mania plenty, I'm not what you'd call "hyped" for it, since it's going to be everything I already know about classic gameplay. I feel the same thing here, but to a lesser extent since the modern gameplay still has plenty of opportunities to do new things with it's level design and mechanics, and because the third gameplay could be anything from SA1 gameplay to a first-person adventure game where each trigger controls one of Sonic's hands and he has to titty-grope his way to victory.

That said, even if all we get is what it looks to be, I won't be that uptight. I still buy new Mario titles, and those have been running through the same eight worlds for 30 years without nearly as much gameplay variance as Sonic.

Here's hoping whatever the third gameplay ends up being is fun enough to permanently replace classic Sonic in any future follow-ups.

[Multikaris]

57 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I would also point out that, with people judging the game on just a few seconds of trailer footage, our impressions don't come from an empty void. Most of us danced the Sonic tango many, many, many times. Myself, after Sonic Lost world, I especially decided to pay close attention whether the next game would have a more focused and clean identity, because I felt Sonic Lost world collapsed in on itself by lack of a core soul. It felt like a giant pile of ideas on a shapeless heap, sufficating each other to death.

That's why I'm alarmed that right after I learn the director of Sonic Lost world is back, I witness new footage that feels utterly alien from the previous stuff I've seen. This is ringing all kinds of alarmbells in my head.
Sure, the sand may imply Green Hill zone is also in disrepair, but the art style feels utterly diffrent.
It's not so much that it's (potentially) Green hill zone, it's that it just looks out of place with the other established aesthetics.If it was Generations style detailed Green Hill zone, I'd have more peace with it.
Well, as far as "Oh god, Green hill zone agaaaaiin" exasperation can be called peace.

It comes across to me as a possible hint that the game's fighting with itself again, like Lost world was.
So sure, I don't have the real knowledge to know if something's wrong or not, but I'm starting to see subtle cracks.
 

Felicitations Roger, I feel something similar to what you feel. Even a suspicion that the Adventure elements are merely superficial. So, thoughts on the new silhouette? To me, it looks lumpy (one of the SA3 manages says it gives him uncomfortable Boom vibes).

[Maxtiis]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the level shown off in Classic Sonic's gameplay is Green Hill Zone again. Keep in mind that the majority of Sonic games have started with a checkerboard hill with green grass and a hill of some kind (see Emerald Hill, Seaside Hill, Neo Green Hill, Sunset Hill, and Windy Hill) and they've all had unique elements to differentiate them from one another (yes even Sunset Hill despite having a remix of Green Hill's music). It's just tradition at this point for Sonic games to begin with a level of this trope. Granted this is if that level ends up being the first.

And taking into account that Colors and Generations started out with the first level immediately upon starting the game, if that level is going to be the first bit of gameplay we experience we likely won't be spending too much time there. So I guess you could compare it to removing a band-aid if you end up hating whatever that level is: it'll hurt but it'll be over quick. Maybe.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

26 minutes ago, It's a Very Merry Miru said:

Felicitations Roger, I feel something similar to what you feel. Even a suspicion that the Adventure elements are merely superficial. So, thoughts on the new silhouette? To me, it looks lumpy (one of the SA3 manages says it gives him uncomfortable Boom vibes).

I saw some people post images of some villagers from the Sonic boom tv show for comparison, that worked.
Considering they told us the new character is "unexpected", that implies to me it's someone we know, or have enough knowledge about that we can be surprised by it.

Ray the Squirrel? With his tail cut off?
Nah, I'll go with the Sonic Boom tv show villagers.
Sonic Team already paid Roger Craig Smith to do Boom Sonic's voice, but now people are complaining they don't want Boom Sonic.
So fine, throw Dave the intern as the third playable character to do battle with Dr. Eggman's world dominating super army instead. Problem solved. That's totally what happened, mark my words.

[SSF1991]

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... So basically, another gimmick...

So if SEGA does something we've seen before, it's "playing it safe" and "nostalgia pandering". Even if it's nothing to do with Green Hill. But if they try something new, it's a "gimmick". Like..I really don't know what you're wanting at this point.

9 hours ago, Scar said:

Man I feel bad for Aaron Webber. He knows what the game is about and unless there is secretly an amazing game underneath all this GHZ recycling garbage, he has to feign excitement for a game he probably knows will be under par.

How do you know this?

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Feels like Gens got a free-pass because critics and fans overlooked the poor classic gameplay due to the 20th year anniversary nostalgia angle.

1. People actually had fun playing the game, me included. It had nothing to do with a "free pass".

2. When did the Classic gameplay suddenly become poor? I can't even keep track of people's complaints anymore. It's shifting all the time and people keep acting like it didn't exist.

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Uh, it's not just Blue Blood dude.  I'm disappointed too, and so are others on this very forum and elsewhere.

Actually, there's still quite a few people still interested in this game. And this is coming from someone who wasn't pleased about Green Hill showing up either. I'm annoyed Green Hill's showing up too, but it doesn't ruin the game for me. Because it's only 10% of it, at most. I need to see more levels first. If there's more levels like Green Hill showing up, then I think it's more reasonable to say that this is really a problem.

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We've already seen certain things that give us the the impression that this isn't going to turn out well in that few seconds.

Okay, this is where I honestly have to call BS. Because people were being pessimistic about this game before last July. Before we knew really anything. This has been nothing more than a continuation of the trend. It was pretty obvious to me that certain people, including some on this forum, weren't going to be interested in this game even before this footage appeared. People were never on board with this game even before the game's existence was known.

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how much are we supposed to see before we're allowed to say we don't think this'll turn out good?

No one's saying you're not allowed. They're questioning your reasoning behind it. Just like people will likely question my reasoning in this post. =P

There's a difference.

[Nepenthe]

People have been complaining about the inaccuracies and subsequent underwhelming nature of Generations' Classic Sonic and accompanying level design since we saw gameplay footage, and probably moreso when Sega released those limited run kiosks of the GHZ demo. Even if games get retroactive backlash or praise, the one thing that remains constant is that basically any attempt at a Classic-playing experience that isn't a direct retread of the actual physics in the original titles is inevitably a pale imitation that will simply never be as fun.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Okay, this is where I honestly have to call BS. Because people were being pessimistic about this game before last July. Before we knew really anything.

We knew it was a Sonic game and Sonic Team was making it and that's pretty solid reason to be pessimistic about it considering their track records. Everything that's since been revealed has just reinforced that justified distrust.

And it's not like it's just blind hatedom going on. When people see a game that looks genuinely good and that matches their interests it gets plenty of respect, just look at Mania. But nothing about Forces looks good to me at all, and a lot of it is exactly the mistakes I was expecting them to make based on their past history.

[Wraith]

Expecting improvement and getting what largely seems to be the same thing or worse is not a good look for a sequel in general. That's not just a "Crazy sonic fan" thing. Even if I were to ignore the blatant red flags or the features we know nothing about and assume we're just getting more gens that's pretty underwhelming with how many issues Gens has.

[Zippo]

12 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

So if SEGA does something we've seen before, it's "playing it safe" and "nostalgia pandering". Even if it's nothing to do with Green Hill. But if they try something new, it's a "gimmick". Like..I really don't know what you're wanting at this point.

 

It's just how a good section of this fanbase "works'. We get something new and experimental, many people complain endlessly about how they need to stick to a fornula. We get something more traditional and refined, many people complain endlessly about how they need to stop rehashing and start trying something new. There's virtually nothing Sega can do at this point but try their best to make the best game they can.   Because let's be honest, this fanbase is notorious for a reason. I'm not just talking about Forces, but most Sonic games in general. It's way too early to say how this will turn out. 

[JezMM]

27 minutes ago, Maxtiis said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the level shown off in Classic Sonic's gameplay is Green Hill Zone again. Keep in mind that the majority of Sonic games have started with a checkerboard hill with green grass and a hill of some kind (see Emerald Hill, Seaside Hill, Neo Green Hill, Sunset Hill, and Windy Hill) and they've all had unique elements to differentiate them from one another (yes even Sunset Hill despite having a remix of Green Hill's music). It's just tradition at this point for Sonic games to begin with a level of this trope. Granted this is if that level ends up being the first.

And taking into account that Colors and Generations started out with the first level immediately upon starting the game, if that level is going to be the first bit of gameplay we experience we likely won't be spending too much time there. So I guess you could compare it to removing a band-aid if you end up hating whatever that level is: it'll hurt but it'll be over quick. Maybe.

Emerald Hill actually doesn't have much in the way of checkerboarding which frankly makes me feel it was a missed opportunity to give "Classic Sonic's natural habitat" at least some new spin for this game.  Casual players will still recognise it as "Green Hill or close enough" while regular players get to see a new zone re-imagined.  It would have also been kind of thematically appealing to use Sonic 2's first zone considering Forces is a follow-up to Generations.

But nooo...

[Osmium]

2 hours ago, DarkXZA said:

Your free to think what you want dude, my point is that it's the same team that made Generations so it's more likely they can at least make it as good as Gens. In my opinion few seconds aren't enough to judge, even Classic in Gens had some straight lines and boosters. If you don't like how Classic Sonic plays in Gens then that's another story.

Alright I will apologize a bit since I do think I was a bit too aggressive. I in fact don't like how classic controlled in Gens so that's that. Differing opinions between us obviously, but I do think anything that is decided to be released to the public deserves to have a close eye on them, no matter the length of the footage. I obviously can't say the whole game is rubbish from this, but they just don't look like good signs to me. Yeah, so that's that man, it's cool.