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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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5 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

You really think that the breath of the wild team can do Sonic justice? 

They just put out one of the most well received games of all time. They're more than qualified, I'd say. Though, the EPD team in Tokyo under Koizumi are the most qualified development team on the planet when it comes to 3D platformers. I say Sonic is a perfect fit for them. 

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5 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

You really think that the breath of the wild team can do Sonic justice? 

They just made the second most highest critically-acclaimed game of all time due to both an ability to deconstruct both modern gameplay conventions and the storied franchise they're assigned to.

They are the most qualified right now to bust out a full 3D Sonic game that is addictively fun without rebuking modernity.

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31 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

On SSMB people were serious about pointing out the same issues with automation and a lack of robust physical prowess compared to the old classic Sonic games. This may have been different elsewhere because- given how much Sonic 4 wasn't all that hated- people don't give a damn about actual technical accuracy so much as they do whether or not a game gives them good feelings like they had in the old days. But the criticism was definitely there, and it doesn't do one favors to act like it sprung out of nowhere.

I do not recall seeing any of that on the SSMB, especially 6 years ago. I remember being on here multiple times during the Generations era, especially when the teaser trailer showed up and the game was leaked near release. And I'm not "acting like it". This is what I saw. I don't say things just because. If you saw something different then cool. I can't argue against that other than to say "that's not what I saw".

A lot of people were excited for this game, and a lot of people enjoyed it. I vaguely recall a little disappointment, but it wasn't an apparent majority on here like it was today.

29 minutes ago, Josh said:

It's not as clear cut as people randomly deciding they want something else every 2 years. Nepenthe has been giving this "Make another montherfucking god damn SONIC ADVENTURE GAME" thing for about as long as I've known her. Same with Diogenes and the classics and how Gens doesn't represent them accurately. A lot of people haven't changed their minds about what they want at all.

You sourced 2-3 people. That doesn't sound like a lot to me. I'm sure that there were people that didn't change their minds. But that's not who I'm referring to.

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A lot of the things you're citing are legit problems and concerns people have with the game. What people want is for the problems to be fixed or to have their worries eased. 

So your only response to everything I listed is just "they're legit'? Like...that's it?

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Opinions change. This is all normal.

What I love about this is I even addressed this argument in the post before you even said this, and it was ignored. i knew this argument was going to be brought up:

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You can't call an idea bad or implented badly, then suddenly shift on this 2 years later when a new Sonic game is announced. Sonic games take 3-4 years to make. "Opinions changing over time" isn't really a valid argument when this is not something SEGA can rely on if they want to make a Sonic game. They can't just simply flip a switch every time people suddenly decide a game is bad and suddenly have this particular problem halfway into a game's development. If you want things like "nostalgia pandering" and "playing it safe" to be a thing of the past, stick to this so that way SEGA knows "okay, this is what they want and don't want".

 

 

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They used to make good games. It's been an awful long time, though, and things have changed since then. I can't give them credit for 3&K as if today's Sonic Team is responsible for that game.

Wait. So you haven't even liked Sonic games in years? Like...what?

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Ok you realize that this is, more often than not, different groups of people making different, conflicting complaints?

I don't even know anymore. Again, no one can make up their minds. If different groups of people are making different complaints, then it just reinforces my point even more.

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That sentiment really only lasted partway through Colors.

No. No it didn't. Not at all. It sold millions of copies and was well recieved for a reason. I remember how much people praised the humor, the snark, the buddy-buddy relationship between Sonic and Tails, Eggman's cutscenes with Cubot and Orbot, and more. The sentiment cropped up after Lost World and be. Hell, I remember people being excited when we learned that the duo had gotten more freedom from SEGA on what they could do with their writing.

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You notice they didn't, though? No one is forcing Sonic Team to only show small snippets of Forces.

No, but people were very very impatient for any kind of news last year.

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Talk is cheap, and Sonic Team lost my trust a long time ago.

If talk is cheap, then why do people make a big deal about their own talk and the talk of other fans? Because if that were the case, I don't think people would get so hostile over opinions.

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They don't deserve trust by default,

No one's saying they do.

26 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

they need to show that they have a game worth buying, and so far, they're failing.

And, again, why you feel that way is what I'm getting at. Not that you feel that way at all.

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2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

They just made the second most highest critically-acclaimed game of all time due to both an ability to deconstruct both modern gameplay conventions and the storied franchise they're assigned to.

They are the most qualified right now to bust out a full 3D Sonic game that is addictively fun without rebuking modernity.

 

6 minutes ago, Zippo said:

They just put out one of the most well received games of all time. They're more than qualified, I'd say. Though, the EPD team in Tokyo under Koizumi are the most qualified development team on the planet when it comes to 3D platformers. I say Sonic is a perfect fit for them. 

 

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'd expect far better from them than Sonic Team, so long as they were properly motivated.

Idk I just feel as if there's so much high expectations for this franchise and people want different things and it's so hard to please everybody. Not to mention they made an open world game Sonic is a platformer. 

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

WkQIXsHHPB6qQ.gif

....I hate you so much right now 

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3 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

 

 

 

Idk I just feel as if there's so much high expectations for this franchise and people want different things and it's so hard to please everybody. Not to mention they made an open world game Sonic is a platformer. 

Man, you can't please everyone and it's a waste of time even trying. Nintendo knows that more than any other company on the planet.  They just make great games. They would make a fantastic 3D Sonic game. 

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@SonicOfficial is streaming on Twitch right now, and they have a "Sonic Mania/Sonic Forces" loading screen. Possible news?

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1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

I do not recall seeing any of that on the SSMB, especially 6 years ago.

So I guess you haven't seen any of my posts here in the last few years.

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

Wait. So you haven't even liked Sonic games in years? Like...what?

So you definitely haven't seen any of my posts here in the last few years...

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

No. No it didn't. Not at all. It sold millions of copies and was well recieved for a reason. I remember how much people praised the humor, the snark, the buddy-buddy relationship between Sonic and Tails, Eggman's cutscenes with Cubot and Orbot, and more.

And then the "new" wore off and people quickly decided that the story wasn't good enough and all the jokes were bad and Baldy McNosehair was officially the worst thing to ever happen to Sonic and Pontac and Graff were literally killing Sonic by making it for babies. Of course it's only gotten worse since, but it definitely started in the Colors/Gens gap.

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

No, but people were very very impatient for any kind of news last year.

Ok, so? Sonic Team was still under no obligation to show only brief snippets of footage. They should've showed something more substantial or waited until they could, instead of trying to ride only on hype for a series that has been wildly unstable and hemorrhaging respect for years. 

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

If talk is cheap, then why do people make a big deal about their own talk and the talk of other fans?

Because this is a forum, a place literally designed for talk. No one here has a game they're trying to sell, and even if they did talk wouldn't be enough to sell it.

 

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1 hour ago, SSF1991 said:

So if SEGA does something we've seen before, it's "playing it safe" and "nostalgia pandering". Even if it's nothing to do with Green Hill. But if they try something new, it's a "gimmick". Like..I really don't know what you're wanting at this point.

I'm not even the one ranting about nostalgia pandering; that's the least of my concerns. I'm judging the worth of Classic Sonic, if his main draw, the only thing separating him from Modern at this point, is outright MIA completely, and all that's left to justify it is an unnamed gimmick.

And can you honestly blame me for regarding "gimmick" as an automatic negative? When have those ever enhanced the Sonic experience in the long run?

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So... after last nights reveal of the Green Hill Zone, I went 'Groan, not again' then today I started to think... 'When exactly was the last time I played that stage in a game?'

Unless you include the Lego Dimensions pack, the mobile games which are not exactly what I would call a level.... Generations was the last time we had the GHZ, both by name and as what you would call a level.


I thought 'that couldn't have possibly generated such a backlash right? Well... I decided to look into the wider franchise... how often is the Green Hill Zone used.

I'm a little shocked at how much this zone has been saturated upon us, not surprised so many have reacted negatively.

Full article here: https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/04/the-spin-yo-ho-ho-green-hill-giant/

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It's not like the fandom hasn't itself embraced and pushed the design of GHZ. It's what everyone answers when they say "what does a typical Sonic level look like". Honestly, I don't see how it's any different from the recurring looks and level themes of Mario worlds, which have become more consistent and codified over the years than Sonic has, despite originally being just as diverse as, say, GHZ compared to Emerald Hill. This is just what happens when a franchise focuses more heavily on being a "brand".

EDIT - also, maybe we should try and avoid projecting our own thoughts and feelings onto Aaron Webber or any other people involved with Sega in any official capacity, mm?

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A while back some were mentioning Modern and Classic Sonic fusing in a DBZ manner.

I just want to point out this HAS been officially confirmed.

SonicForces-1.jpg

Even the robots are doing it.

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So I guess you haven't seen any of my posts here in the last few years.

So you definitely haven't seen any of my posts here in the last few years...

Okay then?

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And then the "new" wore off and people quickly decided that the story wasn't good enough and all the jokes were bad and Baldy McNosehair was officially the worst thing to ever happen to Sonic and Pontac and Graff were literally killing Sonic by making it for babies. Of course it's only gotten worse since, but it definitely started in the Colors/Gens gap.

Except it had nothing to do with "newness". You forget that this is the Sonic fanbase. Not because "lol fans" but because people were far from being blind and liking something for being new when we learned what we did about Colors and Generations. People were cautious about the new voice actors (but that does remind me of the division people had about Roger's voice when we first learned about it). People were interested in the game, but they didn't outright say it will be good. Same with Generations.

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Sonic Team was still under no obligation to show only brief snippets of footage. They should've showed something more substantial or waited until they could, instead of trying to ride only on hype for a series that has been wildly unstable and hemorrhaging respect for years. 

They're also under no obligation to constantly shove things out, even when they're not ready yet.

Few cared.

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because this is a forum, a place literally designed for talk. No one here has a game they're trying to sell, and even if they did talk wouldn't be enough to sell it.

You completely missed my point. A place being designed for talk =/= hey, let's get hostile at someone for having an opinion.

And to be honest, a dev does have merit on things they say. Doesn't mean the game will be good, but if they say a game will have this, then I can't really argue against that. They've seen the game, I haven't.

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can we stop musing the idea of the btow-team making a sonic game because its like a twist to the nuts everytime due to it never being real

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11 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

 

You sourced 2-3 people. That doesn't sound like a lot to me. I'm sure that there were people that didn't change their minds. But that's not who I'm referring to.

Do I need to source everyone who didn't change their minds? They're just examples, and a lot of people have found Nepenthe in particular's sentiments agreeable for years now.

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So your only response to everything I listed is just "they're legit'? Like...that's it?

I don't see what's not "legit" about people being annoyed that Classic Sonic still can't handle a loop on his own. That's inexcusable. The other stuff you listed usually is less clear cut than you make it out to be. You're basically riding off assumptions and broad strokes to make people look unreasonable when they're really not. 

 

 

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What I love about this is I even addressed this argument in the post before you even said this, and it was ignored. i knew this argument was going to be brought up:

"You can't call an idea bad or implented badly, then suddenly shift on this 2 years later when a new Sonic game is announced. Sonic games take 3-4 years to make. "Opinions changing over time" isn't really a valid argument when this is not something SEGA can rely on if they want to make a Sonic game. They can't just simply flip a switch every time people suddenly decide a game is bad and suddenly have this particular problem halfway into a game's development. If you want things like "nostalgia pandering" and "playing it safe" to be a thing of the past, stick to this so that way SEGA knows "okay, this is what they want and don't want"."

This tangent started with you saying they couldn't improve Generations because they didn't know how because the mean old fans had different opinions on it. If we put the fans tendency to disagree on specifics aside basic technical improvements like Classic Sonic's physics have not been made, and nobody was asking for that to stay the same. Does Sonic team really need to be told the specifics of how their games used to work? Do they need to be told to try and refine something? That's common sense. 

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2 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Oh, no. Oh, no.

I guess we're about to find out what could possibly go wrong.

That's some "solid" confirmation right there, wonder what it means...

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2 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Oh, no. Oh, no.

I guess we're about to find out what could possibly go wrong.

I know its just a joke...but the choatic "Joker" part of me actually wants it to be Bubsy.

You have any idea how amazing that would be?

THE EMOTIONS!

THE SALT!

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13 minutes ago, RLS Legacy said:

Oh, no. Oh, no.

I guess we're about to find out what could possibly go wrong.

I hate to sound like curmudgeon, but i really, really hope they aren't about to use the game to capitalize on a meme. 

Edit: *phew*

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4 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Is that Zone really Green Hill? Not seen any confirmation, and wouldn't be surprised if it was another Windy Hill situation because of the sandfalls. 

2 hours ago, Maxtiis said:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the level shown off in Classic Sonic's gameplay is Green Hill Zone again. Keep in mind that the majority of Sonic games have started with a checkerboard hill with green grass and a hill of some kind (see Emerald Hill, Seaside Hill, Neo Green Hill, Sunset Hill, and Windy Hill) and they've all had unique elements to differentiate them from one another (yes even Sunset Hill despite having a remix of Green Hill's music). It's just tradition at this point for Sonic games to begin with a level of this trope. Granted this is if that level ends up being the first.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like duck it's a duck. They could call it Green Hill. They could call it Emerald Hill. They could call it Seaside Hill, Sunset Hill, or Windy Hill. Hell, they could call it City Escape. What does it fucking matter? It's a grassy hill, with checkerboard soil, totem poles, and waterfalls. It makes no difference if it's supposed to literally be Green Hill or not, it's still a part of that trope and that trope has been done to death and SEGA needs to give it a rest. I don't care if they start Sonic visiting a ski resort, running through a forest, spelunking in a cave, or exploring the Grand Canyon. Just do something, anything, different for a change, even a new Emerald Coast knockoff would be welcome at this point.

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2 minutes ago, Razorsaw said:

it's Aaron making a joke. good lord, guys.

Despite how obvious this is, I'm glad you said so.

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Do I need to source everyone who didn't change their minds? They're just examples, and a lot of people have found Nepenthe in particular's sentiments agreeable for years now.

I really don't know what this "lots of people" are, because I simply did not see that. It's to the point where I'd have to see this for myself. And that may not be possible anymore considering technical stuff that has happened since. So this part of the debate is just not going to get anywhere.

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I don't see what's not "legit" about people being annoyed that Classic Sonic still can't handle a loop on his own. That's inexcusable.

Because one, it doesn't ruin the game and isn't that big of a deal. Worth letting SEGA know? Yes. Going on about the game being bad and poor physics and stuff? No. Two, it's a booster. A blink and you'll miss it thing. It's also a thing you can jump over, if you wish. It's not automated, it's not like you have to use it.

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The other stuff you listed usually is less clear cut than you make it out to be.

It's exactly the vibes I've been getting. I'm just more blunt about it, which is why it comes off as being "clear cut".

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You're basically riding off assumptions and broad strokes to make people look unreasonable when they're really not. 

Good lord.

I have been in this Sonic community for 10 years, and have been this active on fan sites for 7. I source nearly everything in articles I write, and every argument I make is based on my own personal experiences and stuff SEGA actually did over the years. Hell, I was even able to reply to an argument before you made it (which you ignored again), so it's not like I don't know what the fanbase is like and haven't been paying attention to what people are saying. The fact I still get told that I "make assumptions" and "make people look this way" says a lot.

I don't make arguments just for lulz. I'd love nothing more than to believe what I'm saying isn't true and that I'm just being a dumb. lol

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This tangent started with you saying they couldn't improve Generations because they didn't know how because the mean old fans had different opinions on it.

Except that's not what I was saying at all? And it certainty didn't have your snark in it?

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basic technical improvements like Classic Sonic's physics have not been made, and nobody was asking for that to stay the same.

Because no one was saying Classic Sonic's physics needed improvement.

27 minutes ago, Josh said:

Does Sonic team really need to be told the specifics of how their games used to work? Do they need to be told to try and refine something?

No, but considering how much fans go on about "SEGA not listening to us" and delivering "what we want"...

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