Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Mars]

I know Bubsy's PS1 game had failed miserably (never played it but I heard reviews), but his Sega Genesis game was awesome when I was a kid. Dude, if it were Bubsy, i'd buy Forces. Seriously...now to get a PS4, Xbox1, or Switch....but which one?

I'm not joking.

[Mark1]

2 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like duck it's a duck. They could call it Green Hill. They could call it Emerald Hill. They could call it Seaside Hill, Sunset Hill, or Windy Hill. Hell, they could call it City Escape. What does it fucking matter? It's a grassy hill, with checkerboard soil, totem poles, and waterfalls. It makes no difference if it's supposed to literally be Green Hill or not, it's still a part of that trope and that trope has been done to death and SEGA needs to give it a rest. I don't care if they start Sonic visiting a ski resort, running through a forest, spelunking in a cave, or exploring the Grand Canyon. Just do something, anything, different for a change, even a new Emerald Coast knockoff would be welcome at this point.

I am not defending Sega's decision to use the same trope, the nostalgia pandering is becoming more apparent when new ideas aren't being used as much.

My point is people are saying already that it is Green Hill, when there is no actual concrete information that they are rebooting old levels (even though it really does share very similar tropes to the recent games (and classics too). THtis is one thing about Colours which has done the best so far, very unique and non realistic landscapes. 

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

I really don't know what this "lots of people" are, because I simply did not see that. It's to the point where I'd have to see this for myself. And that may not be possible anymore considering technical stuff that has happened since. So this part of the debate is just not going to get anywhere.

Because one, it doesn't ruin the game and isn't that big of a deal. Worth letting SEGA know? Yes. Going on about the game being bad and poor physics and stuff? No. Two, it's a booster. A blink and you'll miss it thing. It's also a thing you can jump over, if you wish. It's not automated, it's not like you have to use it.

It's exactly the vibes I've been getting. I'm just more blunt about it, which is why it comes off as being "clear cut".

Good lord.

I have been in this Sonic community for 10 years, and have been this active on fan sites for 7. I source nearly everything in articles I write, and every argument I make is based on my own personal experiences and stuff SEGA actually did over the years. Hell, I was even able to reply to an argument before you made it (which you ignored again), so it's not like I don't know what the fanbase is like and haven't been paying attention to what people are saying. The fact I still get told that I "make assumptions" and "make people look this way" says a lot.

I don't make arguments just for lulz. I'd love nothing more than to believe what I'm saying isn't true and that I'm just being a dumb. lol

Except that's not what I was saying at all? And it certainty didn't have your snark in it?

Because no one was saying Classic Sonic's physics needed improvement.

No, but considering how much fans go on about "SEGA not listening to us" and delivering "what we want"...

Nepenthe certainly gets a lot more likes than you do SSF so...

I'd put some truth behind many folks being like-minded with him where in your case it might be a bit of annoyance...

[SSF1991]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Nepenthe certainly gets a lot more likes than you do SSF so...

I'd put some truth behind many folks being like-minded with him where in your case it might be a bit of annoyance...

That wasn't necessary.

If I'm not as liked and "untruthful" because I don't think like someone else and source what I say on a constant basis, then no wonder why I have such a problem with a lot of people's reasoning for their arguments.

[StaticMania]

4 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like duck it's a duck. They could call it Green Hill. They could call it Emerald Hill. They could call it Seaside Hill, Sunset Hill, or Windy Hill. Hell, they could call it City Escape. What does it fucking matter? It's a grassy hill, with checkerboard soil, totem poles, and waterfalls. It makes no difference if it's supposed to literally be Green Hill or not, it's still a part of that trope and that trope has been done to death and SEGA needs to give it a rest. I don't care if they start Sonic visiting a ski resort, running through a forest, spelunking in a cave, or exploring the Grand Canyon. Just do something, anything, different for a change, even a new Emerald Coast knockoff would be welcome at this point.

Well, there's nothing wrong with the Checkerboard hills exactly...the problem is that Sonic Team isn't providing any interesting variations. Neo Green Hill (Advance 1) and Seaside Hill were actual variations on that aesthetic, because it wasn't a straight up copy-job.

There was actually more to them than just the Green Hill similarity, Neo Green Hill was a beach shore near a city and Seaside Hill was...another beach scene that lead to an ancient sea palace. Too bad these were the only actual variations we got and they were both early 2000's.

[Dee Dude]

Ironically in Forces, despite Green Hill returning for Classic Sonic, I doubt a Green Hill type stage will be the starting stage for Modern Sonic considering the current situation of the story. 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

so it's not like I don't know what the fanbase is like

You're proving pretty quick that you really don't, at least not the fanbase here. Like seriously:

2 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Because no one was saying Classic Sonic's physics needed improvement.

People were complaining about this before Gens was even released. 

[SSF1991]

Quote

You're proving pretty quick that you really don't, at least not the fanbase here. Like seriously:

Because I haven't seen your posts in particular? Or the posts of like 2-3 people? Even if I didn't see them, I should/would have by now. Because people would have been saying this stuff for years.

 

Just now, Diogenes said:

People were complaining about this before Gens was even released. 

And, again, that's not what I saw. I don't know how much more clear I can be about that. I simply did not see that.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

People have been complaining about Classic Sonic's physics since Sonic 4 came out. I do hope they do better. I really didn't like that overpowered spindash from Gens

[Zippo]

Gamexplain posted a Green Hill stage comparison video. 

I still seriously cannot believe they're bringing this stage back again. 

[Blue Blood]

Even when Generations was still in production, I remember people lamenting the boost gameplay being shallow; particularly in regards to Modern Green Hill. Personally I was always saying "I'm looking forward to Generations and think that it should be the last boost game". It's all hearsay at this point though. 

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, SSF1991 said:

Because I haven't seen your posts in particular? Or the posts of like 2-3 people? Even if I didn't see them, I should/would have by now. Because people would have been saying this stuff for years.

And, again, that's not what I saw. I don't know how much more clear I can be about that. I simply did not see that.

That you didn't see it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I have seen it, and I'm sure I could dig up plenty of posts if I wanted to waste the time and energy. Maybe if you're not seeing these well-known things, you're not as knowledgeable about this corner of the fanbase as you think?

[BubbleButt TV]

2 minutes ago, Miki said:

People have been complaining about Classic Sonic's physics since Sonic 4 came out. I do hope they do better. I really didn't like that overpowered spindash from Gens

I'll one-up this by saying that most people started to complain about Sonic's physics before Sonic 4 was released. Remember when that video leaked?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

1 hour ago, Gemster312 said:

I plead, stop saying Classic Sonic = Nostalgia. He's not nostalgia anymore. He's a character that was left behind and has now been revived in the modern games. Treat him as the sonic we used to love, not as a "tool for nostalgia". God im starting to hate that word. Nostalgia. Psh...

Gonna have to disagree strongly with the notion that classic Sonic is a character that was "left behind" when modern Sonic has very obviously been intended to be the same character as him from the very beginning, with just a few design tweaks. Maybe you're not intending it literally, but I personally find any notion that classic Sonic and modern Sonic are two different characters to be strange and annoying, frankly. As a classic Sonic fan who appreciates quite a bit from newer games, I see no reason why you can't just take the one Sonic and try to make him the best he can be, including taking the best from the classic games and the modern (at least as far as it's feasible to do so).

Basically, I want classic Sonic to INFLUENCE modern Sonic, not for him to constantly be pushed off to the side as his own thing. I'd love some sort of meaningful interpretation of the classic style in a 3D environment, like Sonic's stages in the Adventure games with more polish. As long as Sega insists on modern and classic being separate, that's not as likely to happen, as far as I can see. And me no likey that.

Don't get me wrong, new 2D classic Sonic is great, but Mania is already giving us what appears to be a much better version of that...

[herefor1reason]

2 things.

 

1st. there is a red ring on top of the loop in the trailer so there might be more exploration in this game.

 

2nd. there is a booster in front of said loop so i wouldn't count on classic physics to be intact. if they were, they would just let the player build up speed naturally instead of using speed boosters as a crutch. there is some neat stuff here but some worrying stuff too. i'm wondering if they're planning on using the 3rd gameplay style as a way to innovate on gameplay while refining the gameplay of previous games (namely generations).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

2 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

I'll one-up this by saying that most people started to complain about Sonic's physics before Sonic 4 was released. Remember when that video leaked?

To be honest, I don't remember.

[KHCast]

The game intends for the boosters to be used hence there placement in the first place. It undermines the whole point of classic sonic pretty much with them being used in the fashion it looks to be they're going with. Saying "you skip them" and "they're optional" intentionally is you telling people to not experience the way the game was meant to be experienced which given the past games that had similar layouts, probably won't be that fun to break the pace to jump over constantly

[azoo]

20 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Nepenthe certainly gets a lot more likes than you do SSF so...

I'd put some truth behind many folks being like-minded with him where in your case it might be a bit of annoyance...

19 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

That wasn't necessary.

If I'm hated and "untruthful" because I don't think like someone else and source what I say on a constant basis, then I must be the most hated person in this fanbase.

Hey, so if we can stop turning this into a discussion on e-peen status (or anti-peen or whatever the flippidyuck this is) in the Sonic community, that'd be very nice. Thanks! And by the way I don't care who started it.

(on another note it also doesn't quite matter if you saw it or not in a certain section of the community, because regardless it was very present within the center of it. both here and retro were on the case about this kind of stuff forever now; it's not like we magically started complaining without any precedent or good reasoning beforehand. other communities and groups within them were probably apathetic, and the general gaming public will literally eat anything given to them if it's wrapped in a nostalgic coating, so that should explain that tbh.)

---

Anyways, Sonic Forces looks pretty not-good!

Boost gameplay might be fine, but everything else is spelling out to be the return of everyone's favorite other gameplay style that starts with a B.. as in, you know. Bad. Bad gameplay. Yeah. I do shows wednesdays and fridays and i also do parties.

Visuals look like a downgrade from a game that came out last gen in Yet Another Green Hill Zone, but better than before in the destroyed city, so now the visuals feel extremely middling. I get taking LW's and Unleashed/Gens' style and fusing them together, but I don't think that taking the vivid detail in things like dirt and level geometry was really what people had in mind for that.

Oh yeah, and about that one thing.

The new character just vibes me that it's an awful idea, and if it's actually a create-your-character situation like it's very likely it's gonna be then I've just gotta say that this is probably their worst idea yet! As in, within the entire decade+ or more that they've been making piss poor decisions, enabling a rebirth of the deviantART era of Sonic OCs in your own hit new video game is probably the worst thing you could've possibly ever done, Sonic Team!

Maybe I sound harsh saying that, but it's true. Young kids and teenagers are okay for making fan characters (and even some adults if they have fun with it way over there), but enabling that side of the fanbase's culture to become reawakened into the face of the internet and overall video game community is opening a can of worms that absolutely should've never have been opened, enabling a whole new era of grand ridicule and embarrassment for all! Isn't life great?

I'm just saying. If it's true (and it will be, mark my words) we've hit a new low. A new low some of you may enjoy playing, sure, but one that shouldn't have happened. Much like many other things this series has done. And you know? There's just so much of stuff that shouldn't have happened that one can take. If this is anyone's last straw, then I can't blame them because it's probably mine lmao.

So yeah. Be prepared, kiddos. Here comes a storm.

(PS - If it wasn't already proven by now that boost gameplay (a fun style, make note) requires so much effort/money/time to make content for what would otherwise leave a very small, linear and short game IF NOT for padding it out with ludicrous ideas, then let this be the confirmation signal for you all.)

[The Deleter]

20 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Because one, it doesn't ruin the game and isn't that big of a deal. Worth letting SEGA know? Yes. Going on about the game being bad and poor physics and stuff? No. Two, it's a booster. A blink and you'll miss it thing. It's also a thing you can jump over, if you wish. It's not automated, it's not like you have to use it.

(...)

Because no one was saying Classic Sonic's physics needed improvement.

??!??

One of the biggest criticisms for it was given a buzzword, the "Spamdash", and was definitely a gripe for a lot of people. Dunno how you could miss that, at the very least...

 

And really? "ruining the game" can be such a subjective requirement, only being outright dysfunctional can be a way to disprove it. And at that point, what even is the point of standards and expectations, lmao.

It ruins the core of Classic Sonic's gameplay for sure, stripping him down to nothing but an average platforming character. That can be "good enough" for some, maybe, but this is a mainline Sonic game, that took four years to develop, was developed and will be releasing alongside Sonic Mania - that does get the core right - and is outright worse than their previous attempt for Classic Sonic so far.

"It's fine as an average platformer, so it's good enough!" isn't a valid stance to take anymore. The very argument keeping them in the "they're the experts!" category has shattered, and it's just shameful at this point.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, herefor1reason said:

1st. there is a red ring on top of the loop in the trailer so there might be more exploration in this game.

Collectables are nothing new for the series, I don't see why seeing the same one again is supposed to indicate any more exploration than we've seen in previous games.

[BubbleButt TV]

2 minutes ago, Miki said:

To be honest, I don't remember.

Videos like this leaked and if I recall correctly, this prompted SEGA to issue a statement saying that they're fixing Sonic's physics as a result of feedback (obviously we saw what happened there...)

Honestly, I just find it really funny that someone would imply that people weren't ever on SEGA's case for the wonky physics. It's like I've stepped into a weird alternate universe.

[Nepenthe]

Going back a bit-- The commentary on how the Gens gameplay has fallen out a favor a little is nonsensical. Criticism has been had at the game from a technical and artistic basis from the start on SSMB whether or not it's been personally witnessed by everyone. It happened, but whether or not it even did is ultimately irrelevant to the fact that, as I reiterated earlier, times change. What was cool once isn't cool anymore in the blisteringly-fast world of disposable entertainment. It's not actually hypocritical for people to change their minds or grow out of things. This also pertains to the rule I mentioned earlier about squabbling about the fanbase being full of people with differing and changing opinions. People are allowed to not like Gens anymore, even if they really really did beforehand.

24 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Nepenthe certainly gets a lot more likes than you do SSF so...

I'd put some truth behind many folks being like-minded with him where in your case it might be a bit of annoyance...

Don't drag me or my rep count into dumb shit like this. Don't assume my gender either.

[The Deleter]

The fact that the red ring even is on top of a standard loop, when Generations and even colors placed them at the end of paths you had to go out of your way to find, is honestly an even bigger red flag for the exploration for me, lmao.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I'm gonna be honest, most of Sega's own creations come off as Deviantart inspired already. So I don't see why it wouldn't be ok for a create your own character. In fact, I think I could be a good thing because people can be interactive with the game plus it gives off replay value. Other games have done it with coustomisable characters and those games were great. I think if they go that rute, it should be in the route of Pokemon X/Y where you can chose your gender and outfit and name as well.

[JosepHenry]

7 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Hey, so if we can stop turning this into a discussion on e-peen status (or anti-peen or whatever the flippidyuck this is) in the Sonic community, that'd be very nice. Thanks! And by the way I don't care who started it.

(on another note it also doesn't quite matter if you saw it or not in a certain section of the community, because regardless it was very present within the center of it. both here and retro were on the case about this kind of stuff forever now; it's not like we magically started complaining without any precedent or good reasoning beforehand. other communities and groups within them were probably apathetic, and the general gaming public will literally eat anything given to them if it's wrapped in a nostalgic coating, so that should explain that tbh.)

---

Anyways, Sonic Forces looks pretty not-good!

Boost gameplay might be fine, but everything else is spelling out to be the return of everyone's favorite other gameplay style that starts with a B.. as in, you know. Bad. Bad gameplay. Yeah. I do shows wednesdays and fridays and i also do parties.

Visuals look like a downgrade from a game that came out last gen in Yet Another Green Hill Zone, but better than before in the destroyed city, so now the visuals feel extremely middling. I get taking LW's and Unleashed/Gens' style and fusing them together, but I don't think that taking the vivid detail in things like dirt and level geometry was really what people had in mind for that.

Oh yeah, and about that one thing.

The new character just vibes me that it's an awful idea, and if it's actually a create-your-character situation like it's very likely it's gonna be then I've just gotta say that this is probably their worst idea yet! As in, within the entire decade+ or more that they've been making piss poor decisions, enabling a rebirth of the deviantART era of Sonic OCs in your own hit new video game is probably the worst thing you could've possibly ever done, Sonic Team!

Maybe I sound harsh saying that, but it's true. Young kids and teenagers are okay for making fan characters (and even some adults if they have fun with it way over there), but enabling that side of the fanbase's culture to become reawakened into the face of the internet and overall video game community is opening a can of worms that absolutely should've never have been opened, enabling a whole new era of grand ridicule and embarrassment for all! Isn't life great?

I'm just saying. If it's true (and it will be, mark my words) we've hit a new low. A new low some of you may enjoy playing, sure, but one that shouldn't have happened. Much like many other things this series has done. And you know? There's just so much of stuff that shouldn't have happened that one can take. If this is anyone's last straw, then I can't blame them because it's probably mine lmao.

So yeah. Be prepared, kiddos. Here comes a storm.

(PS - If it wasn't already proven by now that boost gameplay (a fun style, make note) requires so much effort/money/time to make content for what would otherwise leave a very small, linear and short game IF NOT for padding it out with ludicrous ideas, then let this be the confirmation signal for you all.)

I disagree with that.

If done right it could be the selling point of the game. Sounds crazy, but a character creation in Sonic has a lot of potential. It aaall depends on execution.