Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Not boosters specifically, but there's plenty of automation going on in there. The S-tubes, some of the springs, the wood path that loops down into a spiral a bit past the halfway point, and if I remember right some of the quarterpipe ramps would give you a little extra kick to make sure you launched up high enough.

The point isn't that you're going to want to stop and boosters prevent it, it's that the booster essentially completes the loop for you. In the Genesis games, loops are a bit of a speed check; you need to get yourself moving fast enough to get around them. It's a minor challenge, sure, but it's something to ensure that you remain engaged with the game. Putting a booster just before a loop means no effort is required on the player's part beyond holding right; zero chance of failure unless the player actively works against the game. The more the games rely on boosters, dash pads, dash hoops, launch ramps, scripted loops, spring sequences, and the like, the less the player is actually doing.

I see what you mean on the bolded part, though I am not sure why you'd want to stop in the loop. I imagine that in 3D sections, boosters were added to make sure you don't skip loops easily without having to run through them. 2D is a different story from this. It's not quite the same as in 3D. But boosters don't have to be automated. Just give speed without the automation and there is that. I wonder why Sonic Team has not realized this?

Still, there are areas in levels where you can still use skill and player input to get around to make up for that, if the later levels in Sonic Unleashed have anything to say about that, and they can't hold hands in every level, can they? Either way, it shouldn't hurt if it is just Sandy Green Hill Zone.

[Sonikko]

10 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

I don't think boosters are that lazy, in my honest opinion, Not saying they are good, especially if overused, but I think boosters are otherwise not so harmful for building up speed. I think they could make changes some in how the boosters are handled, but overall, I think calling them lazy is being a bit going too far, the way I see it. I mean, it is just something that builds up speed for an area, for crying out loud.

I understand the control part, but as much as you probably won't like this, keep in mind that this is the first level, and it is not like they'll do it in every level, right? Still, I am not bothered by everything else you said. I can still see some people not be bothered by it, and those booster effects are quite short lived in duration. We don't even know how many boosters will be in the game, ya know.

EDIT: BUT, I will admit, if there are too many boosters, that is another story, and a bad thing.

Taking out the physics from the 2D games would make for a shallow experience though. I mean, if you're going for full 2D levels for 1/3rd of your game at least make them engaging. I am a huge fan of the classic games, aswell as the modern ones, I really liked Generations, Unleashed, the Adventures when they came out and I even enjoyed 2006 to some extent. But I can't find myself replaying any of the Classic stages in Generations, while I still regularly play all the other games I listed. Because the classic stages are shallow, just superficial imitation of what 2D Sonic meant.

2D sections in the modern stages are designed differently, with the boost in mind, and they don't bother me for what they are, because they're not trying to be something they're not. But the classic stages are boring to me, because they're not blazing fast, spectacular, and not even fun to play like the classic trilogy. So there's nothing left for me to enjoy!

Just now, CrystalStorm51 said:

I see what you mean on the bolded part, though I am not sure why you'd want to stop in the loop. I imagine that in 3D sections, boosters were added to make sure you don't skip loops easily without having to run through them. 2D is a different story from this. It's not quite the same as in 3D. But boosters don't have to be automated. Just give speed without the automation and there is that. I wonder why Sonic Team has not realized this?

Still, there are areas in levels where you can still use skill and player input to get around to make up for that, if the later levels in Sonic Unleashed have anything to say about that, and they can't hold hands in every level, can they? Either way, it shouldn't hurt if it is just Sandy Green Hill Zone.

You're not supposed to stop through the loop, you're supposed to make through the loop using your own speed. That's why they're there in the first place.

Loops since the Adventure games have been there just cause it's a Sonic game and it has to have loops.

[Tracker_TD]

Surely giving Classic Sonic a boost would just make him Modern's 2D sections, with a Spindash nobody would ever use?

[BubbleButt TV]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Not boosters specifically, but there's plenty of automation going on in there. The S-tubes, some of the springs, the wood path that loops down into a spiral a bit past the halfway point, and if I remember right some of the quarterpipe ramps would give you a little extra kick to make sure you launched up high enough.

Yeah the automation was definetely Generations weaker points. I'm not going to lie, when I was watching that video  it was a bit jarring to see the player go into that S-tube and immediately start flying through, way faster than the speed they approached it.

[Voyant]

Hell I'm not even impressed with the Modern Sonic graphics in Sonic Forces.

Have you seen those ugly ass backgrounds when Sonic goes through the orange auto air dash loops?

It looks like something that could have been done on the previous engines.

Look at this.

And look at Forces...

Not even close...

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Voyant said:

Hell I'm not even impressed with the modern sonic graphics in Sonic Forces.

It looks like something that could have been done on the previous engines.

Look at this.

And look at Forces...

Not even close...

In it's defence, Forces has 60fps to maintain and needs to load in stuff a hell of a lot quicker than Ratchet.  

[Kintor]

5 minutes ago, Voyant said:

This feels like they have done fuck all in the past 4 years and JUST started making the game mid summer of 2016.

It's a mistake to equate a lack of information with a lack of effort when Sega's marketing team is deliberately withholding information. We probably won't know too much more about Sonic Forces until E3 but I'm still pleased with what has been shown so far. We've had a whole gameplay trailer which shows that Sega is taking Sonic Forces it the right direction by returning Sonic Generation’s successful formula. The rest is just a couple of seconds of throw away footage for a montage reel, not worth freaking out over.

[Mark1]

It baffles me why Sega would go back from the lack of boosters in front of loops in Generations to this. Either that one section is part of a small fast paced part of a bigger level. Or perhaps it's just a side level. Nothing here has demonstrated Classic style gameplay. 

Most like they either don't know how to market Sonic, or they don't understand how to impress the fans in general.

A part of me suspects that this will end up being a big overreaction closer to release when we know more. Why Classic Sonic is so different from before doesn't add up when they credit Sonic Generations as one of their top titles.

 

 

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

 

Don't drag me or my rep count into dumb shit like this. Don't assume my gender either.

That's... A surprising response of agitation...

I was backing up your tastes/suggestions for the franchise in this instance. Granted it was an assumption there on your gender but still, I see no reason to respond so bitterly over another supporting your opinions on things...

But, it seems I managed to strike a nerve despite good intentions, my apologies I suppose.

Regarding this whole Green Hill fiasco, it wouldn't be QUITE as bad if they took a Mania route with it, continuing with what they had and building onto it, but as others have mentioned, instead a minimalistic Lost World type of approach is being taken, and instead of building, it's actually being stripped with water re-textured as sand basically.

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, Sonikko said:

Taking out the physics from the 2D games would make for a shallow experience though. I mean, if you're going for full 2D levels for 1/3rd of your game at least make them engaging. I am a huge fan of the classic games, aswell as the modern ones, I really liked Generations, Unleashed, the Adventures when they came out and I even enjoyed 2006 to some extent. But I can't find myself replaying any of the Classic stages in Generations, while I still regularly play all the other games I listed. Because the classic stages are shallow, just superficial imitation of what 2D Sonic meant.

2D sections in the modern stages are designed differently, with the boost in mind, and they don't bother me for what they are, because they're not trying to be something they're not. But the classic stages are boring to me, because they're not blazing fast, spectacular, and not even fun to play like the classic trilogy. So there's nothing left for me to enjoy!

Well, sadly, I am slowly beginning to realize more on why boosters may be a problem in classic levels. I don't find the classic levels in Gens shallow, but that is just me. I did enjoy the modern levels more, but hey. There was automation in the classic levels of Sonic Generations, right? We could have lived without that in those sections of the game.

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

Surely giving Classic Sonic a boost would just make him Modern's 2D sections, with a Spindash nobody would ever use?

Modern's 2D sections weren't as good as Rush or Colors DS stages as those games were dedicated to the 2D aspect, but you got me on the spindash part though.

[Sonikko]

7 minutes ago, Voyant said:

Hell I'm not even impressed with the modern sonic graphics in Sonic Forces.

It looks like something that could have been done on the previous engines.

Look at this.

And look at Forces...

Not even close...

You're comparing a first party title for PS4 with a multiplatform game that somehow has to run on the Switch portable mode too, and still mantain 60fps mode. That's not a fair comparison. Besides, Sonic has a lot more going on on screen than Ratchet, and it's a much much more fast game. I also think the modern stage looks gorgeous, low res textures aside.

[Solly]

2 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

In it's defence, Forces has 60fps to maintain and needs to load in stuff a hell of a lot quicker than Ratchet.  

This is true. Although has it been confirmed that the game will be 60fps on consoles? We have some footage, but that could be running on a PC build, unless I've missed something (which is totally possible). 

[Voyant]

4 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

You're comparing a first party title for PS4 with a multiplatform game that somehow has to run on the Switch portable mode too, and still mantain 60fps mode. That's not a fair comparison. Besides, Sonic has a lot more going on on screen than Ratchet, and it's a much much more fast game.

That obviously wasn't a problem with the Sonic Generations.

The only excuse I'll take for Forces having the graphics it has now...which from what has been shown, is looking worse looking than Generations is that they want to make more levels and make the overall experaince bigger.

I'm okay with that. 

Regadless there is a PC version coming...so hopefully they are just dailing stuff back for the Switch since thats the only footage we have gotten so far...

....I think.

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

Well, sadly, I am slowly beginning to realize more on why boosters may be a problem in classic levels. I don't find the classic levels in Gens shallow, but that is just me. I did enjoy the modern levels more, but hey. There was automation in the classic levels of Sonic Generations, right? We could have lived without that in those sections of the game.

It has already been confirmed by... I believe it was Mr. Iizuka at one point... That it's nearly if not impossible to implement proper Classic Sonic game play/physics using the stuff they have for Modern Sonic game play, so because of that I'm guessing it's why the necessity for boots are there in front of loops because without them Classic either might not make it or look awkward on loops, possibly getting stuck on them in some form.

Thanks to whatever it is they use for Modern Sonic game play being used for Classic Sonic game play, they won't be able to give consumers proper Classic Sonic physics.

[JezMM]

21 minutes ago, Kintor said:

I'm completely serious about how big the social media crowd is and how Sonic Forces can benefit from that. I mean, there are people who make careers just out of playing Minecraft on YouTube and Twitch, some of them are even millionaires because of that. If the character creation system catches the attention of that crowd then we will see a significant amount of extra sales for Sonic Forces. If the internet goes crazy for the character creator then it will be quite easy for Sonic Forces to become one of the bestselling Sonic games ever.

You are completely living in a fantasy world if you think the ability to make and play as a customised Sonic character is gonna make people drop £50 on a game that they weren't interested in for basic fact of it being a Sonic platformer already.

The public outside of the fanbase barely care about Sonic, Tails and Eggman let alone Original the Character.

[Sonikko]

3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It has already been confirmed by... I believe it was Mr. Iizuka at one point... That it's nearly if not impossible to implement proper Classic Sonic game play/physics using the stuff they have for Modern Sonic game play, so because of that I'm guessing it's why the necessity for boots are there in front of loops because without them Classic either might not make it or look awkward on loops, possibly getting stuck on them in some form.

Thanks to whatever it is they use for Modern Sonic game play being used for Classic Sonic game play, they won't be able to give consumers proper Classic Sonic physics.

This has been proven wrong. The level design would need to be tailored for it, but the no automation route is totally possible. This mod does remove every bit automation in the game, even the invisible ramps and every single booster. The game works beautifully without them and the physics make even more sense. It's not that it isn't possible, it's that they won't do it because it's easier to design a level around automation than keeping the physics system in mind.

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

It has already been confirmed by... I believe it was Mr. Iizuka at one point... That it's nearly if not impossible to implement proper Classic Sonic game play/physics using the stuff they have for Modern Sonic game play, so because of that I'm guessing it's why the necessity for boots are there in front of loops because without them Classic either might not make it or look awkward on loops, possibly getting stuck on them in some form.

Thanks to whatever it is they use for Modern Sonic game play being used for Classic Sonic game play, they won't be able to give consumers proper Classic Sonic physics.

Well, thanks for the information, Chris. I find that rather sad, to be honest, considering how cool it would be to make classic levels play like the classics. I wonder how many people know of this news?

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

I see what you mean on the bolded part, though I am not sure why you'd want to stop in the loop.

Again, it's not because you'd want to stop. Like Sonikko said, you're supposed to make it around a loop by your own efforts; there needs to be a possibility of failure, even if it's low and with little punishment.

11 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

But boosters don't have to be automated. Just give speed without the automation and there is that. I wonder why Sonic Team has not realized this?

In 2D, that is still automation.

11 minutes ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

... and they can't hold hands in every level, can they?

They can and have since Sonic Adventure.

[NegaMix]

Just to add to the whole "Create a character" thing: if the new guy did turn out to be one in the end, how much customisation would we actually be getting? 'Cause I'd be surprised if we got anything more than being able to change their physical appearance. Like, what about their personality? What if there's no option to change it?

Say that, hypothetically speaking, I'm the kind of guy who would want to create a "cool, edgy loner" type of character, but then there's no option to change the personality of that character. So instead, I'm basically stuck with "heroic, friendly guy who idolises Sonic and friends" or something like that, even though that's the opposite type of character that I wanted to play as.

At that point, why should I care about having my very own playable character in the game, when there's a decent chance that they'd only have one type of personality and/or gameplay style? They'd basically just be "my character in name/appearance only", so what's the point?

(This is all hypothetical, of course. Personally, I don't want to see custom characters in this game at all. Leave that to the modding communities, please.)

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, JezMM said:

You are completely living in a fantasy world if you think the ability to make and play as a customised Sonic character is gonna make people drop £50 on a game that they weren't interested in for basic fact of it being a Sonic platformer already.

The public outside of the fanbase barely care about Sonic, Tails and Eggman let alone Original the Character.

It would put me completely off it.

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It has already been confirmed by... I believe it was Mr. Iizuka at one point... That it's nearly if not impossible to implement proper Classic Sonic game play/physics using the stuff they have for Modern Sonic game play, so because of that I'm guessing it's why the necessity for boots are there in front of loops because without them Classic either might not make it or look awkward on loops, possibly getting stuck on them in some form.

Thanks to whatever it is they use for Modern Sonic game play being used for Classic Sonic game play, they won't be able to give consumers proper Classic Sonic physics.

Then why even have Classic Sonic in the first place, then? It just makes no sense from a business standpoint. This game would benefit more him not being there at all. 2D sections in Modern gameplay would be more tolerable, Green Hill gone (tho knowing Sega it's inclusion was probably inevitable), Sonic cast playable (or at least Tails or something), and so on. I don't really get why he's here.

[Kintor]

Just now, JezMM said:

You are completely living in a fantasy world if you think the ability to make and play as a customised Sonic character is gonna make people drop £50 on a game that they weren't interested in for basic fact of it being a Sonic platformer already.

The public outside of the fanbase barely care about Sonic, Tails and Eggman let alone Original the Character.

I've seen it happen before once YouTube and Twitch gets hold of a game they like, or at least a game they can readily use as content for more videos. This is the sources of that Friday Night at Freddy's phenomenon, a wholly unremarkable Indy went on to sell millions of copies and spawn several sequels thanks to social media. The same ideas can certainly work in Sonic Forces favour, a character creation system is ideal for sharing content online and getting people talking about the game. Once that kind of hype starts rolling a good many gamers will buy Sonic Forces out of sheer impulse.

[JezMM]

1 minute ago, Metal Sonic NEGA said:

Just to add to the whole "Create a character" thing: if the new guy did turn out to be one in the end, how much customisation would we actually be getting? 'Cause I'd be surprised if we got anything more than being able to change their physical appearance. Like, what about their personality? What if there's no option to change it?

Say that, hypothetically speaking, I'm the kind of guy who would want to create a "cool, edgy loner" type of character, but then there's no option to change the personality of that character. So instead, I'm basically stuck with "heroic, friendly guy who idolises Sonic and friends" or something like that, even though that's the opposite type of character that I wanted to play as.

At that point, why should I care about having my very own playable character in the game, when there's a decent chance that they'd only have one type of personality and/or gameplay style? They'd basically just be "my character in name/appearance only", so what's the point?

(This is all hypothetical, of course. Personally, I don't want to see custom characters in this game at all. Leave that to the modding communities, please.)

This is exactly why I think people are kidding themselves when they say it's gonna appeal to the OC crowd too.  Literally only the youngest kids who don't really appreciate the subtleties of a good character creator are gonna get an "it's MY character!" appeal out of this.  And y'know, that'd be fine, but the game's tone seems more geared towards 8-and-ups.

[BubbleButt TV]

4 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

 

Whoa, why have I not heard of this mod until now? Tell me there's one that brings back the badnik bounce and I'm sold.