Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Detective Kaito]

Just now, BubbleButt TV said:

If they were going to choose any of the freedom fighters, why would they choose this dingus?

 

Well, they did say it is "unexpected".

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Dude Post-genesis Antoine is a fucking treat do not start this shit with me here

I really doubt it's him or any of the FF though, SoJ never seems to want to promote anything made by outside countries especially since the Archie comics get the tone and characterization down better than the games ever do

[Auroxen]

3 minutes ago, JezMM said:

If anything paints Forces Green Hill as being intentionally minimalistic it'd be this.  If they were re-using the same model as an unfinished placeholder prop it wouldn't have this new bright and colourful paintjob.

It's almost as if they've actually taken inspiration from Mania and tried to make it more colourful and less trying to be a "realistic version" of Green Hill, but they kind of missed the mark due to that very strange choice of lighting direction casting most of the landscape in washed-out shadow.

I thought it was kinda obvious that the new less detailed appearance of Green Hill was caused by a stylistic choice primarily and by this being not final only as a second reason.

I have to say I don't actually dislike how it looks, maybe I'm the only one in this thread to think that lol.
I think that this more cartoony style isn't a bad thing (it would've been extra boring in my opinion to see Green Hill exactly as it was in Generations again imho).
A lot of you complained that this is pretty much indicative of the final version and that there will only be small tweaks but honestly that's what I need, just some tweaks to make it look a little better, I don't think this needs a complete overhaul.
Something I'm liking so far about Forces is that it's trying to blend the different styles that Sonic has had, from realistic / realistic-ish ambients like Unleashed to classical somewhat cartoony but still not completely appearance of the Classic and the classic stages of Generations to the pseudo-classical super cartoony appearance of Lost World.
I want to feel all these as part of one big and varied world and not as some detached places or as places of entirely different dimension (I hate that two worlds explanation).

So yeah, Forces' Green Hill is definitely going for a mix of Generations' appearance and Lost World's style and I don't find it a bad thing at all, it just needs more polish imho.

[Gatestormer]

10 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

I didn't mean through the floor, I meant one another: 

You can see the ring is off-centre, because the monitors are actually clipping through one another. Like I said, it's gonna be fixed; just an amusing tidbit. 

Ahhh ok yeah I see what you mean. No worries dawg. 

[Detective Kaito]

8 minutes ago, Auroxen said:

I thought it was kinda obvious that the new less detailed appearance of Green Hill was caused by a stylistic choice primarily and by this being not final only as a second reason.

I have to say I don't actually dislike how it looks, maybe I'm the only one in this thread to think that lol.
I think that this more cartoony style isn't a bad thing (it would've been extra boring in my opinion to see Green Hill exactly as it was in Generations again imho).
A lot of you complained that this is pretty much indicative of the final version and that there will only be small tweaks but honestly that's what I need, just some tweaks to make it look a little better, I don't think this needs a complete overhaul.
Something I'm liking so far about Forces is that it's trying to blend the different styles that Sonic has had, from realistic / realistic-ish ambients like Unleashed to classical somewhat cartoony but still not completely appearance of the Classic and the classic stages of Generations to the pseudo-classical super cartoony appearance of Lost World.
I want to feel all these as part of one big and varied world and not as some detached places or as places of entirely different dimension (I hate that two worlds explanation).

So yeah, Forces' Green Hill is definitely going for a mix of Generations' appearance and Lost World's style and I don't find it a bad thing at all, it just needs more polish imho.

Imho, Green Hill in Forces looks too plain and blocky. The artistic choice in Lost World does not fit a Sonic game, Sonic has always been about curves and semi-realistic environments. All they're doing is just copying Mario's artstyle, and Sonic is supposed to be anti-Mario.

[Blue Blood]

32 minutes ago, JezMM said:

If anything paints Forces Green Hill as being intentionally minimalistic it'd be this.  If they were re-using the same model as an unfinished placeholder prop it wouldn't have this new bright and colourful paintjob.

It's almost as if they've actually taken inspiration from Mania and tried to make it more colourful and less trying to be a "realistic version" of Green Hill, but they kind of missed the mark due to that very strange choice of lighting direction casting most of the landscape in washed-out shadow.

Part of me is actually wondering if Classic Sonic's levels take on a more simplistic art style while Modern's look more like Generations. So in addition to differing gameplay and music styles, the visuals would also get adjustments to match. Few assets would be shared between the styles, and there'd even potentially be a another style for Bubsy. It all doesn't sound too plausible and really and I don't think I'd like it, but I can't think of any other reason why GHZ looks like such an intentional downgrade from Generations. The lack of detail and flat lighting look so bad that I don't want to accept it as something that's supposed to be a step forward. 

[GUN Commander]

21 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Can't help but think that the 3rd character looks a bit similar to Antoine, at least his new design.

Not to mention that the Freedom Fighters would fit the plot of this game so well.

Darn it! You beat me to the punch!

I thought the same thing.

 

I agree. The whole Freedom Fighter thing WOULD work well with the whole "Eggman has conquered 99% of the world" thing. That and Antoine is the only thing that immediately comes to mind that has tall and pointy ears like in the silhouette. To me, the ears are the distinction.

If the cartoon/comic characters are indeed crossing into the games (hence the "unexpected" thing regarding the character), then I'mma just sit here and cross my fingers really hard for Eclipse the Darkling.

 

And if not, hey! That trip through Google to find that image was well worth it. I learned that Antoine is a coyote (... what? I thought he was a deer or something. Still trying to figure out what Sally is.)

[voltaic]

1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

Imho, Green Hill in Forces looks too plain and blocky. The artistic choice in Lost World does not fit a Sonic game, Sonic has always been about curves and semi-realistic environments. All they're doing is just copying Mario's artstyle, and Sonic is supposed to be anti-Mario.

I've been wondering if the blocky-ness indicates Classics sections will be more inspired by Colours then lost world, being that Colours and Generations are mentioned in the trailer. The booster feels more lost world though.

Although saying that, colours on the Wii looked better graphically imo... I don't really see how this version of Green Hill's art direction fits with the city level...?

[Detective Kaito]

Just now, GUN Commander said:

Still trying to figure out what Sally is.

I think she's a chipmunk or something. lol

[MainJP]

6 minutes ago, GUN Commander said:

(Still trying to figure out what Sally is.)

Sally is a chipmunk.

Ninja'd

Edited April 14, 2017 by MainJP

[D.K.]

Bringing back the level idea subject for a second.

When the first Forces gameplay came out, I finally sat down and started asking myself "What do I want from a boost-oriented Sonic game?". I won't be talking about my dream boost game now since it has nothing to do with anything, but while I was thinking about it I realized how genius it would be to have a level in Forces entirely dedicated on Angel Island. Not the zone of Angel Island, or just a small piece of it - The entire island. One single zone touring through the entire landmark in its new "conquered" form, revisiting certain areas from 3 & Knuckles in a dilapidated, industrialized, barely recognizable state.

This would immediately establish that Eggman isn't dicking around, and that he really has conquered everything. Even something as big as Angel Island. And fans can't bitch about it being 'nostalgia pandering' because they probably won't even realize this part is Hydrocity or that part is Ice Cap the first time around.

[Auroxen]

14 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Imho, Green Hill in Forces looks too plain and blocky. The artistic choice in Lost World does not fit a Sonic game, Sonic has always been about curves and semi-realistic environments. All they're doing is just copying Mario's artstyle, and Sonic is supposed to be anti-Mario.

I see where you are coming from, I still feel that the cartoony style of Lost World can be done well, even in a Sonic game.

I will say that of course this Green Hill is far from perfect, I just am really liking that they are trying fusing the different art styles of the series, I don't expect them to succeed immediately but I don't dislike what we've seen.

I see this as a start, I hope that they will eventually learn how to fuse the cartoony style with the classic one without making stages look generic (because I am sure it's possible, they just gotta get better at it).

Of course I'm not saying that every stage of every Sonic game should be with this style, far from it, I just don't think it's necessary to throw it away entirely, I'd like to see it implemented with the other ones and it seems that this is what they are trying.

I was literally amazed when I saw the gameplay of Modern Sonic in HD and I saw how they blended the city with that background, my hype raised over the roof.

I guess I am more hopeful in Sonic Team than a lot of you guys here and probably I am the one being irrational here, I just believe this'll turn out well in the end.

[Dejimon11]

Gamexplain made an analysis on the recent footage 

 

[BubbleButt TV]

9 hours ago, Depression Kong said:

Bringing back the level idea subject for a second.

When the first Forces gameplay came out, I finally sat down and started asking myself "What do I want from a boost-oriented Sonic game?". I won't be talking about my dream boost game now since it has nothing to do with anything, but while I was thinking about it I realized how genius it would be to have a level in Forces entirely dedicated on Angel Island. Not the zone of Angel Island, or just a small piece of it - The entire island. One single zone touring through the entire landmark, revisiting certain areas from 3 & Knuckles in a dilapidated, industrialized, barely recognizable form.

This would immediately establish that Eggman isn't dicking around, and that he really has conquered everything. Even something as big as Angel Island.

While that would be incredibly cool and something I don't think Sonic Team would ever think of, I feel as though condensing all of Angel Island into one level would only make it feel smaller. Unless you're going for one really long level. 

[GUN Commander]

29 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

Imho, Green Hill in Forces looks too plain and blocky. The artistic choice in Lost World does not fit a Sonic game, Sonic has always been about curves and semi-realistic environments. All they're doing is just copying Mario's artstyle, and Sonic is supposed to be anti-Mario.

In my mind, what's going on is that they're going for nostalgia, bringing back the retro look, while kinda forgetting why they switched in the first place.

I believe Iizuka was the one to say this at SXSW, but the reason for the general artstyle change beginning in Sonic Adventure was that what looked cool in 16-bit looked cute in 3D. Since Sonic was always supposed to be "cool" (hence all the attitude and finger wagging and whatnot), "cute" would never do, so they changed to look more "cool".

Lately what's been happening is that they've been trying to go all Classic-y and... well, it's had mixed results (from what I've seen anyway.). Lost World looks cutesy instead of cool, and same with what you've said about Green Hill looking plain and blocky. They're trying to make it like, respectful of the source material and all that, but the source material looks cool in 16-bit, not necessarily so in 3D. I hope that in future games, they remember that this cutesy, blocky look was exactly what they were trying to avoid when they introduced the Adventure look to the "cool, blue dude with 'tude".

[Scar]

35 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Part of me is actually wondering if Classic Sonic's levels take on a more simplistic art style while Modern's look more like Generations. So in addition to differing gameplay and music styles, the visuals would also get adjustments to match. Few assets would be shared between the styles, and there'd even potentially be a another style for Bubsy. It all doesn't sound too plausible and really and I don't think I'd like it, but I can't think of any other reason why GHZ looks like such an intentional downgrade from Generations. The lack of detail and flat lighting look so bad that I don't want to accept it as something that's supposed to be a step forward. 

I'd agree there. Forces Hill Zone not only looks more simplistic, but looks graphically worse. The lighting being the biggest point of contention.

I probably wouldn't mind if the level geometry was a bit more simplistic, but damn son why does it look like its not even running on the same fucking engine.

[Auroxen]

7 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Gamexplain made an analysis on the recent footage 

 

Nothing really particular was noted in the video, I find the idea of an older Tails rather dumb, the silhouette really doesn't look like him at all.

Gotta say that I love how Classic Sonic is animated in this game from what we've seen for now, the spinning animation from the spring is awesome and I was baffled they didn't go with that in Generations, the running animation has less blur and I gotta say I love how it looks, I don't like the blur too much in 3D so I really prefer seeing him actually move his legs during the whole animation and they kept just a little hint of blur around his feet so it doesn't lose the charm of the original animation imho.

Now what I really want to know... will they finally use the classic jump sound instead of the CD one used in Generations?
I hate the CD one so I really hope they get rid of that.

[Detective Kaito]

15 minutes ago, GUN Commander said:

In my mind, what's going on is that they're going for nostalgia, bringing back the retro look, while kinda forgetting why they switched in the first place.

I believe Iizuka was the one to say this at SXSW, but the reason for the general artstyle change beginning in Sonic Adventure was that what looked cool in 16-bit looked cute in 3D. Since Sonic was always supposed to be "cool" (hence all the attitude and finger wagging and whatnot), "cute" would never do, so they changed to look more "cool".

Lately what's been happening is that they've been trying to go all Classic-y and... well, it's had mixed results (from what I've seen anyway.). Lost World looks cutesy instead of cool, and same with what you've said about Green Hill looking plain and blocky. They're trying to make it like, respectful of the source material and all that, but the source material looks cool in 16-bit, not necessarily so in 3D. I hope that in future games, they remember that this cutesy, blocky look was exactly what they were trying to avoid when they introduced the Adventure look to the "cool, blue dude with 'tude".

It's not a throwback to anything but Mario. The artstyle in Lost World does not resemble even the classics. The classics, even though they're 16-bit, tried to make the stages look like real landscapes (minus the loops and stuff), they tried to add details and dark colors to make it look a bit more realistic.

What they did in Lost World was just a ripoff of the New Super Mario Bros. series of games, in terms of artstyle. Even the level tropes are exactly the same, they did it to attract the casual Mario fans.

As a bit of proof, I showed my younger sister a screenshot of Desert Ruins from SLW and her only sentence was, "Why are they copying Mario?".

[BubbleButt TV]

17 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Gamexplain made an analysis on the recent footage 

 

Can't believe I didn't notice this until watching it back in slow-motion, but um...

Do you think maybe you overdid it, Sonic Team...?

Spoiler

For what it's worth I actually really like the designs of the Choppers in this game, they look great.

 

[Nast]

5 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

Can't believe I didn't notice this until watching it back in slow-motion, but um...

Do you think maybe you overdid it, Sonic Team...?

  Hide contents

For what it's worth I actually really like the designs of the Choppers in this game, they look great.

 

I think that's the biggest sign that the level design in the footage is just a placeholder.

[Blue Blood]

Just now, NastCF said:

I think that's the biggest sign that the level design in the footage is just a placeholder.

What's the biggest sign?

[Jango]

I really hope everything is sorted during and after E3. Because I see only two things happening: either SEGA and Sonic Team themselves aren't confident/excited about their OWN freaking game, ergo why they have only showed very little of it, or they want to make a bombastic mass reveal, with story clips, new levels and characters.

 

I do feel a lack of faith on SEGA's part. Compare it with Mania's​ trailer. They included that "SEGA PROUDLY PRESENTS", I think I've never seen they do this.

 

I don't know man, something is smelling.

[Nast]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

What's the biggest sign?

The long bridge with a bajillion Choppers.

[Patron]

4 minutes ago, NastCF said:

I think that's the biggest sign that the level design in the footage is just a placeholder.

The bridge is falling and if you'd get hit by a Chopper you'll fall into a bottomless pit. Seems like it's purposefully set up to make you keep running.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Of all the things the level design is, I don't think it's placeholder. It's just one of those big flashy sequences ST likes to do with the series, no more than the truck chase.