Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Dejimon11]

The game has been in development since 2013 and we got 6-7 months before it's release. There's no way in hell that it's just a place holder/alpha footage. 

[Blue Blood]

Just now, NastCF said:

The long bridge with a bajillion Choppers.

It's just a set-piece. The Choppers aren't synchronised and the point is to run across the bridge at full speed without getting hit. Every recent Sonic game had had similar parts. 

[Patron]

2 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

The game has been in development since 2013 and we got 6-7 months before it's release. There's no way in hell that it's just a place holder/alpha footage. 

Come to think of it, how much time could have been spent on finishing up the Hedgehog Engine 2?

[Nast]

4 minutes ago, Patron Night said:

The bridge is falling and if you'd get hit by a Chopper you'll fall into a bottomless pit. Seems like it's purposefully set up to make you keep running.

Yeah but it looks TOO barebones. It's like if you went on Mario Maker and placed a bunch of Cheep Cheeps haphazardly in a straight line. 

Do I just have too much faith in Sonic Team that they're not THAT amateurish with their level design? lol

Like Generations had moments kinda like this but they made them cinematic and had more substance to them?

[Person]

Wait a minute...

Well, this would make me feel slightly better.

[Patron]

8 minutes ago, NastCF said:

Yeah but it looks TOO barebones. It's like if you went on Mario Maker and placed a bunch of Cheep Cheeps haphazardly in a straight line. 

Do I just have too much faith in Sonic Team that they're not THAT amateurish with their level design? lol

Like Generations had moments kinda like this but they made them cinematic and had more substance to them?

I'd be a bit concerned if just now's the time for them to get to the level design. We can probably both agree that GHZ won't be somewhere in the middle or end but rather one of the first zones. So if it's still a work in progress, the same might apply to everything else bar the showcased modern one.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

18 minutes ago, BubbleButt TV said:

Is it just me, or did that Chopper at the beginning of that sequence just blink out of existence as it reached the end of the jump?

[The Deleter]

The problem I have with the art style, is that it's doing near exactly what I wanted from the next Sonic art style - taking the simplicity and cartoony nature of lost world's style, and mixing it with Generation's lush detail - and is completely making a hash out of it...

While I don't think the two styles are immediately compatible, Generations, while messy in most areas, has this grounded, lush amount of detail to it that make every nook and cranny nice to look at...

And then Sonic Lost World, while wanting on the finer details and is more artificial, just had a really pleasing and minimal aesthetic that just felt nice to look at, brimming with color and concise enough to understand at a glance...

If their strong points were combined in a cohesive and appealing way to balance out their faults, I could see an utterly fantastic style being birthed from a hybrid between the two. And both have their own vibrancy and life to them, so to put them together and get... This in return?

It's flat, boring, and tbh kinda soulless in comparison. It tries to be realistic with some props, but they're too muted in comparison. And it tries to be cartoony with the geometry, but it just clashes with the realistic props and has no real appeal aesthetically. It just... doesn't work in comparison.

Maybe it is just unfinished graphics, sure, but while the modern stage may look good in the city, the cartoony bits in the background look just as bad as this imo. The trees Sonic runs past in the city are of the cartoony variety, too, though, and they look great... So idk what to think of it all, tbh. Hoping they'll show off a better, finished version or stage later on, but I'm not holding my breath... :\

[Scar]

I mean I'm pulling this outta my ass, but I'm surprised neither myself, nor anyone else pointed out the possibility that Sonic Team may have spent more time developing THE HEDGEHOG ENGINE II^TM than they did actually making a game.

It would be stupid as fuck, but not entirely impossible.

[Stasis]

6 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Is it just me, or did that Chopper at the beginning of that sequence just blink out of existence as it reached the end of the jump?

Pretty sure its just the gif. Can't see it in the actual video.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

In my opinion Sonic Lost World looked better then this Green Sandhill Zone does.

I loved the art style on SLW even if it needed little more detail and more curves. But what little we've seen of Sonic Forces Green Hill I agree looks boring... Dull lightning. Unappealing geometry. Lack of extra bits... It just has almost nothing going for it so far.

[Blue Blood]

33 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

In my opinion Sonic Lost World looked better then this Green Sandhill Zone does.

I loved the art style on SLW even if it needed little more detail and more curves. But what little we've seen of Sonic Forces Green Hill I agree looks boring... dull lightning. Lack of extra bits... It just has almost nothing going for it so far.

I absolutely agree. Lost World went for a clearly toony approach. It was far from perfect and I prefer the Generations approach, but it at least knew what it wanted to be and worked for the most part. Forces' Green Hill however looks inconsistent with it's heavily detailed plants and grass alongside under-detailed geometry and textures, all offset by monotonous lighting that washes everything out. It also doesn't match the other level that we've seen. 

It's just adding to the confusion. 

[Kintor]

34 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I absolutely agree. Lost World went for a clearly toony approach. It was far from perfect and I prefer the Generations approach, but it at least knew what it wanted to be and worked for the most part. Forces' Green Hill however looks inconsistent with it's heavily detailed plants and grass alongside under-detailed geometry and textures, all offset by monotonous lighting that washes everything out. It also doesn't match the other level that we've seen.

It's all well to criticise what you see but there are still a couple of explanations you need to acknowledge. After all, there is every possibility that the 'inconsistent' details are a deliberate design choice. More levels will needs to be revealed to confirm this theory but it does seem that mishmashed locations are going to a theme in Sonic Forces, at least in the opening levels. As for the apparently lower quality lighting, you're probably just looking at Switch footage. In the end the Switch version is never going to look as good as the main version on other platforms. I personally would like to see some classic footage that doesn't originate from a Nintendo event, then we might get a more reasonable idea of what the classic stages will actually look like.

[Sean]

Deliberate design choices can still be bad design choices.

[Kintor]

28 minutes ago, Sean said:

Deliberate design choices can still be bad design choices.

And a lack of good information breeds fear and paranoia.

Edit: Such as this post Scar made:

1 hour ago, Scar said:

I mean I'm pulling this outta my ass, but I'm surprised neither myself, nor anyone else pointed out the possibility that Sonic Team may have spent more time developing THE HEDGEHOG ENGINE II^TM than they did actually making a game.

It would be stupid as fuck, but not entirely impossible.

You have nothing to base this on and just attacking Sonic Team's reputation directly, ignoring all the great visuals and gameplay ideas that have already been revealed about Sonic Forces. The Hedgeheg Engine will serve Sonic Forces well, as Sonic Team continues to work on the game. To suggest the Hedgehog Engine itself is a problem just poisons discussion and has no basis in any information available.

...

Anyway on a more positive note, let's bring this thread back to some fun speculation:

6 hours ago, Auroxen said:

So, if the focus of the stages of this game turns out to really be fusing level tropes (as we have seen city+green and green+sand), which tropes would you like seeing fused?
Keep in mind that I'm not talking about straight up fusing old levels, just tropes (so for example a sand level with an ice one, not sandopolis and icecap).

I'd really love to see an ice and industrial mix, with electricity thrown into the mix.
Or jungle and ice. Or floating and ice.
I really like ice levels so I'd like to see this trope fused with virtually anything lol.

So what about you guys?

What about some sort of ancient overgrown temple fused with a modern city?

That'd be cool, sky scrapers mixed together with ziggurats and crumbling statues. Take the subway as a short cut and you end up in the middle of a tomb instead etc.

[Chris Knopps]

2 hours ago, Jango said:

I really hope everything is sorted during and after E3. Because I see only two things happening: either SEGA and Sonic Team themselves aren't confident/excited about their OWN freaking game, ergo why they have only showed very little of it, or they want to make a bombastic mass reveal, with story clips, new levels and characters.

 

I do feel a lack of faith on SEGA's part. Compare it with Mania's trailer. They included that "SEGA PROUDLY PRESENTS", I think I've never seen they do this.

 

I don't know man, something is smelling.

"Here's a brand new hip and happenin' 2D title from the fresh and inspired next generation, Sonic Mania!"

"...Oh..."

"And here's the 3D thing from our seniors that are out of ideas and almost out the door. Play it if you want..."

[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

"Here's a brand new hip and happenin' 2D title from the fresh and inspired next generation, Sonic Mania!"

"...Oh..."

"And here's the 3D thing from our seniors that are out of ideas and almost out the door. Play it if you want..."

Or you could go with a more logical explanatin. That Sonic Mania is receving the bulk of the current marketing because it's releasing sooner. Once Sonic Mania is available attention can then fully turn to Sonic Forces. Standard practise really; using this as an excuse to attack Sega is just petty.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

Or you could go with a more logical explanatin. That Sonic Mania is receving the bulk of the current marketing because it's releasing sooner. Once Sonic Mania is available attention can then fully turn to Sonic Forces. Standard practise really; using this as an excuse to attack Sega is just petty.

We're right on the heels of Mania's release. Even with the delay it's 2-3 months at best.

And to top that, Mania is so heralded even if Forces was the front and center focus it would be nigh impossible to overshadow Mania so they really have nothing to worry about in regards to totally pushing Forces in the here and now, at least more than they have.

The company knows what the hot topic is and what the sour grapes are, it reflects in the marketing.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

We're right on the heels of Mania's release. Even with the delay it's 2-3 months at best.

And to top that, Mania is so heralded even if Forces was the front and center focus it would be nigh impossible to overshadow Mania so they really have nothing to worry about in regards to totally pushing Forces in the here and now, at least more than they have.

The company knows what the hot topic is and what the sour grapes are, it reflects in the marketing.

Don't try to turn this into a Sonic Mania vs Sonic Forces discussion; Sonic Fans are capable of liking and enjoying both styles of games. Moreover Sega is smart to know that promoting two Sonic games at once isn't the most efficient approach. Sonic Mania is first so it gets the most attention. Sonic Forces, which doesn't even have a firm release date yet, will get all the attention later. As has always been the case; to suggest this strategy is anything but standard practise really is just absurd and petty. Both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania deserve a higher calibre of discussion then this.

[Detective Kaito]

1 hour ago, Scar said:

I mean I'm pulling this outta my ass, but I'm surprised neither myself, nor anyone else pointed out the possibility that Sonic Team may have spent more time developing THE HEDGEHOG ENGINE II^TM than they did actually making a game.

It would be stupid as fuck, but not entirely impossible.

Didn't Sonic Team split into 2 teams after Sonic 06? One developed Sonic Unleashed and Generations, and the other did the story book games, Colors, and Lost World, I believe? And if that's the case, then what was the Unleashed/Generation team doing after the release of Generations?

[azoo]

Sonic Mania has already gained a stupid amount of attention from people, and is most likely gonna be considered by many to be a return to grace. Expect 8s-9s (and maybe a 10 if we're lucky). All press has been overwhelmingly positive, pre-orders have sold out and social media can't stop buzzing about it. Polygon, IGN, various gaming journalists all throughout Twitter and beyond have been lapping it up. It's been a non-stop hype train for almost everyone, give or take a few people for their own reasons.

Sonic Forces, once it's gimmick is revealed to the public, is going to get a mountain of ridicule for reminding the world of Sonic's underside community, and will get kicked to the curb. People are also going to see the gameplay and possibly complain that it looks worse than before in Generations (granted those qualms aren't calmed in time), or at least say that they're not sure if they want to do all this "custom character" junk just to play more of the same. Small sects of fans and young kids are going to be all for it, but no matter how much polish is put into the ideas laid out here, Forces will most likely end up getting anywhere between 4s-7s (and if you think that's too unfair, see Unleashed).

And god, the stigma that we just grew out of will return once more in full force. Say you don't care as much as you want, but that kind of thing affects how you discuss anything with anyone in a community like vidya's, and being social animals, you'd think we'd rather not be a fan of something that literally no one will take you seriously for liking or having an opinion on! Plus, said social interaction is what gets demand and discussion of change, so you'd think we'd want to be vocal about it too.

By the end of the year, a small indie development team on a smallish budget would've fiercely outplayed a AAA video game studio with millions of dollars poured into a game that (apparently) has taken 3-4 years to make. And how do I know? Because it's been laid out in front of me like a goshdang crumbtrail to a candy house.

So where will they go from there? God, who knows. Will they reevaluate themselves and work accordingly to capture what people found appealing in Mania in their future titles, or will they mismanage as always and continue Sonic down a trail of misunderstanding every fault and continuing to pander to fleeting trends and melting nostalgia?

I'm gonna bet the latter, but the former would be nice.

[Kintor]

3 minutes ago, Azoo said:

By the end of the year, a small indie development team on a smallish budget would've fiercely outplayed a AAA video game studio with millions of dollars poured into a game that (apparently) has taken 3-4 years to make. And how do I know? Because it's been laid out in front of me like a goshdang crumbtrail to grandma's house.

How about this instead? Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania both marker a resurgence for the Sonic franchise. With Sonic Mania as smaller (mostly) digital release sold at a budget price point. While Sonic Mania, as a full-fledged AAA 3D Sonic game, is hailed as a return to form by restoring the successful formula last used in Sonic Generations. No need for any kind of civil war in the Sonic fanbase, when overall most Sonic fans are happy to see Sonic Mania but have always eagerly been waiting these past six years to see a true sequel to Sonic Generations. Being divisive like this doesn't help anybody and only serves to distort the bigger picture, the future of the Sonic franchise as a whole. A future that can be built together through the success of both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania.

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Sonic Mania has already gained a stupid amount of attention from people, and is most likely gonna be considered by many to be a return to grace. Expect 8s-9s (and maybe a 10 if we're lucky). All press has been overwhelmingly positive, pre-orders have sold out and social media can't stop buzzing about it. Polygon, IGN, various gaming journalists all throughout Twitter and beyond have been lapping it up. It's been a non-stop hype train for almost everyone, give or take a few people for their own reasons.

Sonic Forces, once it's gimmick is revealed to the public, is going to get a mountain of ridicule for reminding the world of Sonic's underside community, and will get kicked to the curb. People are also going to see the gameplay and possibly complain that it looks worse than before in Generations (granted those qualms aren't calmed in time), or at least say that they're not sure if they want to do all this "custom character" junk just to play more of the same. Small sects of fans and young kids are going to be all for it, but Forces will most likely end up getting anywhere between 4s-7s (and if you think that's too unfair, see Unleashed).

And god, the stigma that we just grew out of will return once more in full force. Say you don't care as much as you want, but that kind of thing affects how you discuss anything with anyone in a community like vidya's, and being social animals, you'd think we'd rather not be a fan of something that literally no one will take you seriously for liking or having an opinion on!

By the end of the year, a small indie development team on a smallish budget would've fiercely outplayed a AAA video game studio with millions of dollars poured into a game that (apparently) has taken 3-4 years to make. And how do I know? Because it's been laid out in front of me like a goshdang crumbtrail to grandma's house.

So where will they go from there? God, who knows. Will they reevaluate themselves and work accordingly to capture what people found appealing in Mania in their future titles, or will they mismanage as always and continue Sonic down a trail of misunderstanding every fault and continuing to pander to fleeting trends and melting nostalgia?

I'm gonna bet the latter, but the former would be nice.

I know people are sick of me harping on over this topic now, but it's a song I'm going to sing long until the end of the year probably.

Whitehead Team is the new Sonic Team, no if, and's or but's about it. Everyone is young, hip, new, energized and interested, inspired and spunky, dedicated. They're fans first, diehards second, passionate third, and thus, Mania.

Sonic Team is the old, outdated, unwanted and unreliable Sonic Team, full of indifferent, uninspired, uninterested, worn-out, past-their-prime has-beens with nothing but yesterday to reflect on, no light to shine on them now, no sparks left to give.

[Dejimon11]

9 minutes ago, Azoo said:

Sonic Mania has already gained a stupid amount of attention from people, and is most likely gonna be considered by many to be a return to grace. Expect 8s-9s (and maybe a 10 if we're lucky). All press has been overwhelmingly positive, pre-orders have sold out and social media can't stop buzzing about it. Polygon, IGN, various gaming journalists all throughout Twitter and beyond have been lapping it up. It's been a non-stop hype train for almost everyone, give or take a few people for their own reasons.

Sonic Forces, once it's gimmick is revealed to the public, is going to get a mountain of ridicule for reminding the world of Sonic's underside community, and will get kicked to the curb. People are also going to see the gameplay and possibly complain that it looks worse than before in Generations (granted those qualms aren't calmed in time), or at least say that they're not sure if they want to do all this "custom character" junk just to play more of the same. Small sects of fans and young kids are going to be all for it, but no matter how much polish is put into the ideas laid out here, Forces will most likely end up getting anywhere between 4s-7s (and if you think that's too unfair, see Unleashed).

And god, the stigma that we just grew out of will return once more in full force. Say you don't care as much as you want, but that kind of thing affects how you discuss anything with anyone in a community like vidya's, and being social animals, you'd think we'd rather not be a fan of something that literally no one will take you seriously for liking or having an opinion on! Plus, said social interaction is what gets demand and discussion of change, so you'd think we'd want to be vocal about it too.

By the end of the year, a small indie development team on a smallish budget would've fiercely outplayed a AAA video game studio with millions of dollars poured into a game that (apparently) has taken 3-4 years to make. And how do I know? Because it's been laid out in front of me like a goshdang crumbtrail to a candy house.

So where will they go from there? God, who knows. Will they reevaluate themselves and work accordingly to capture what people found appealing in Mania in their future titles, or will they mismanage as always and continue Sonic down a trail of misunderstanding every fault and continuing to pander to fleeting trends and melting nostalgia?

I'm gonna bet the latter, but the former would be nice.

While I do believe that Mania is going to be the better received of the two(something I've been saying since day one) I think it's too soon to write off whether or not Sonic Forces is going to be a good or bad game. Especially considering we haven't even seen one full level. I'd say let's wait a while till we see more of the game until we hit the panic button again. 

[Kintor]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I know people are sick of me harping on over this topic now, but it's a song I'm going to sing long until the end of the year probably.

It's a 'song' that has no basis in reality and you'd better off not trying to cause needless conflict between Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania. Both games will be success and benefit the Sonic franchise as a whole. Nobody loses face when the Sonic franchise is a success, least of all anybody working on either Sonic Forces or Sonic Mania. You'll just end up wasting you energy over a conflict that doesn't actually exist.