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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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5 hours ago, Scar said:

While this is true, the classics aren't what you'd describe as long games. Most people can complete them in 2/3 hours (each) no problem.

And a game like the classics isn't viable as a ~$60 experience anymore. I'm certainly not suggesting that as an alternative, just pointing out that their supposedly "winning" modern Sonic formula can't support itself, which is why Classic Sonic is back.

2 hours ago, Hyp3hat said:

Why does a game have to be 20+ hours long in the first place? Given the choice between stupid padding, like the Werehog or forcing each campaign to be the same length in 06, and a shorter end-to-end experience that has replay value like Colours or Generations, I'd choose the latter every time. 

Jumping from one hour to 20+ is a pretty big leap, man. I'm not asking for JRPG length games, but Sonic Team themselves have admitted that the amount of content they can reasonably produce with boost gameplay isn't enough for a ~$60 game, and they've had to pad both Unleashed and Generations with cheaper secondary gameplay (Colors gets away with it by being slower and having much more 2D, but no one's holding that up as the standard for 3D Sonic).

I'm all for games cutting out padding, but a boost game just doesn't have enough meat to survive without it.

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45 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

One thing I desperately hope this game does is explain where these games actually take place! If they want us to take this story seriously then they need to be consistent with this world that the characters live in, because they never really have taken these worlds seriously. So far I feel as though this game is a step backwards aesthetically from Lost World, and it's a shame because with Lost World I was thinking that they'd finally actually established a world for where these characters live.

I don't get how something like this:

http://imgur.com/BpQMu1r

Can just exist in the same lore as something like this:

http://imgur.com/F6pVouh

It's just really inconsistent. What happened to the flickies? That's what I wanna know...

 

poopootwopoo.png

Sorry to disagree, but i really disliked the aesthetics in lost world and feel the world represented in this trailer was the best thing to happen in the past 10 years. Not to say that either of us are wrong or right, just thought i'd point out the difference in opinion. 

You're definitely right in the way where it needs some consistency though. I'd just prefer the world to be based on something a bit more realistic, such as this game represents. The genesis titles actually got more realistic settings as they went on, with only a handful of levels from the genesis era really taking advantage of that 'classic' colourful blocks level design.

Going back to simplistic colourful settings would seem to be taking a step backwards from the progression made between 'sonic 2 and sonic 3' and 'sonic 3 to sonic adventure', which was arguably the forerunner of the graphical capabilities of those time periods.

I say let sonic be the nathan drake of the platformer genre and show the world that sonic is once again in the lead!!

Too ambitious? :P

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7 minutes ago, Riverstone said:

Sorry to disagree, but i really disliked the aesthetics in lost world and feel the world represented in this trailer was the best thing to happen in the past 10 years. Not to say that either of us are wrong or right, just thought i'd point out the difference in opinion. 

You're definitely right in the way where it needs some consistency though. I'd just prefer the world to be based on something a bit more realistic, such as this game represents. The genesis titles actually got more realistic settings as they went on, with only a handful of levels from the genesis era really taking advantage of that 'classic' colourful blocks level design.

Going back to simplistic colourful settings would seem to be taking a step backwards from the progression made between 'sonic 2 and sonic 3' and 'sonic 3 to sonic adventure', which was arguably the forerunner of the graphical capabilities of those time periods.

I say let sonic be the nathan drake of the platformer genre and show the world that sonic is once again in the lead!!

Too ambitious? :P

I would prefer something more in the middle of Lost World and Unleashed world visuals myself. I don't find semi realistic worlds appealing with extreme looking cartoon characters whatsoever, To me Sonic is a arty cartoon series and while that can be done in more then a few ways... but I don't think going the semi realistic route is a good choice among them. And while Lost World felt like a step in the right direction to me... I would agree it needed a bit more detail and depth to it all.

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Well, I'll be fine with the cities as long as they're extremely stylized and feel surreal like Speed Highway from SA1 or Studiopolis from Mania! I just want Sonic to feel like he belongs in this world.

 Giraffe.png

I didn't like stuff like this because it's just extremely weird. Why is there just a real-ass Giraffe in Sonic's world? Does he walk and talk just like Sonic? At least the Flickies were designed to look like they belonged in Sonic's world!

I'm looking at stuff like Zootopia and how Disney went to extra lengths to establish how their world works so you could take it seriously and I just wish SEGA would do the same.

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5 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

Well, I'll be fine with the cities as long as they're extremely stylized and feel surreal like Speed Highway from SA1 or Studiopolis from Mania! I just want Sonic to feel like he belongs in this world.

 Giraffe.png

I didn't like stuff like this because it's just extremely weird. Why is there just a real-ass Giraffe in Sonic's world? Does he walk and talk just like Sonic? At least the Flickies were designed to look like they belonged in Sonic's world!

I'm looking at stuff like Zootopia and how Disney went to extra lengths to establish how their world works so you could take it seriously and I just wish SEGA would do the same.

Do you hate the SA1 whale too?

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1 hour ago, JingleBoy said:

One thing I desperately hope this game does is explain where these games actually take place! If they want us to take this story seriously then they need to be consistent with this world that the characters live in, because they never really have taken these worlds seriously. So far I feel as though this game is a step backwards aesthetically from Lost World, and it's a shame because with Lost World I was thinking that they'd finally actually established a world for where these characters live.

I don't get how something like this:

  Reveal hidden contents

F6pVouh.png

Can just exist in the same lore as something like this:

  Reveal hidden contents

BpQMu1r.png

It's just really inconsistent. What happened to the flickies? That's what I wanna know...

(EDIT: I fixed it, sorry about that! New to this...)

 

It's officially stated in SEGA's internal Sonic bible that there are two worlds in the Sonic universe - "Sonic's world" and Earth. There is a gate of some kind that links the two worlds.

"Sonic's world" is your Green Hill Zone and Flickies and Lost Hexes.

Earth is the more realistic places from games like Adventure and Unleashed.

Of course there are still some unexplained inconsistencies (some places in games that take place on Earth have areas that look like Sonic's world. And then Earth has a different layout in some games). But that's the official explanation for how Sonic can jump between cartoony worlds and realistic worlds between games. Same for how there are both realistic animals and cartoony animals. Sonic is effectively an alien to people on Earth.

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4 minutes ago, Spooky Mulder said:

Do you hate the SA1 whale too?

Yes. =P

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I believe they already pretty much nailed the atmosphere and environmental design with Unleashed. I could see any of the Generations levels appearing in that world (look at Unleashed's Eggmanland). 

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32 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

Well, I'll be fine with the cities as long as they're extremely stylized and feel surreal like Speed Highway from SA1 or Studiopolis from Mania! I just want Sonic to feel like he belongs in this world.

Honestly Speed Highway looks much more generic than this.  The only thing that keeps Speed Highway surreal is the Sonic level design itself, which you KNOW will come with the territory once we're experiencing this location in-game.  The new city here has already had people notice the architecture appears to be inspired by cities of the deep south like New Orleans, giving it a unique flavour already, but in the trailer we already see plenty of surreally steep hills for Sonic to run up and down, and the destroyed bridges looming collosally over the city add some nice flavour to the background.  I think it's same to assume the real-life inspired locations will be at least as surreal as Unleashed's if not moreso judging by the direction the location design took in Colours and Lost World - both games were praised for their visuals so I doubt Sonic Team haven't taken that in.

24 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

It's officially stated in SEGA's internal Sonic bible that there are two worlds in the Sonic universe - "Sonic's world" and Earth. There is a gate of some kind that links the two worlds.

"Sonic's world" is your Green Hill Zone and Flickies and Lost Hexes.

Earth is the more realistic places from games like Adventure and Unleashed.

Of course there are still some unexplained inconsistencies (some places in games that take place on Earth have areas that look like Sonic's world. And then Earth has a different layout in some games). But that's the official explanation for how Sonic can jump between cartoony worlds and realistic worlds between games. Same for how there are both realistic animals and cartoony animals. Sonic is effectively an alien to people on Earth.

Until this "gate" is officially recognised and mentioned in the games I see no reason to take that nonsense as anything other than a developer choosing to try and justify in-universe the actual reason of "we just wanted to try different aesthetic styles depending on game".  I mean it was in response to an on-the-spot interview question right?

 

 

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27 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Honestly Speed Highway looks much more generic than this.  The only thing that keeps Speed Highway surreal is the Sonic level design itself, which you KNOW will come with the territory once we're experiencing this location in-game.  The new city here has already had people notice the architecture appears to be inspired by cities of the deep south like New Orleans, giving it a unique flavour already, but in the trailer we already see plenty of surreally steep hills for Sonic to run up and down, and the destroyed bridges looming collosally over the city add some nice flavour to the background.  I think it's same to assume the real-life inspired locations will be at least as surreal as Unleashed's if not moreso judging by the direction the location design took in Colours and Lost World - both games were praised for their visuals so I doubt Sonic Team haven't taken that in.

Until this "gate" is officially recognised and mentioned in the games I see no reason to take that nonsense as anything other than a developer choosing to try and justify in-universe the actual reason of "we just wanted to try different aesthetic styles depending on game".  I mean it was in response to an on-the-spot interview question right?

 

 

Aaron Webber mentioned it in an interview recently, but he sounded very clear, concise, and confident in it, as if this has been a thing for ages.

He's also not the only person to have mentioned it, multiple people have reported on seeing the bible and have mentioned this being in it. It may not have always been a rule but it's in the latest iteration of the bible.

Like it or not, it's now canon and SEGA makes sure anyone who uses the core Sonic brand abides by this rule as of right now. Word of God is Word of God and no matter how much you disagree with it or think it's stupid, you can't present anything other than this as the official stance on the matter until an another official stance overrides it.

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1 minute ago, Auto said:

Should we expect any new Project 2017 deets at SoS?

The game's not listed for a playable demo in SOS unfortunately.

Just Fire and Ice, Sonic Mania, and other games.

Also in regards to an earlier post around here, the name Sonic Resistance sounds odd. I was thinking Sonic Revolution would work better.

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As for Classic Sonic, i think the reason they bring this back is for the 2D side game play? it was not of a bad feature on Generation actually so i can totally understand the reason of bring it back for some people preference. but yet overall I'm totally looking for that first Gameplay footage. As for the teaser it look something from a future post apocalyptic, where's Eggman could probably succeeded at all? Pretty sure there a chance will gonna play a lot of characters from the past games.

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3 hours ago, Fusion Runners said:

The game's not listed for a playable demo in SOS unfortunately.

Of course we shouldn't expect a demo so soon, I'm talking some more information or another trailer

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4 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

Like it or not, it's now canon and SEGA makes sure anyone who uses the core Sonic brand abides by this rule as of right now. Word of God is Word of God and no matter how much you disagree with it or think it's stupid, you can't present anything other than this as the official stance on the matter until an another official stance overrides it.

c1ac0f489f6a3391b15847b4aaec9a86.jpg Sonic_Boom_-_Characters.jpg

You can't really say all official staples of Sonic uses this when two of the only official things we've gotten from the series has yet to include anything like that. Until a new game comes out and specifically states this, I'm treating it as a non-canon possible rule, considering two series of Sonic has nothing relating to that rule. In fact, to this point the only product with a rule like that is the OVA (X doesn't count as they are mentioned as two separate worlds entirely in that)

 

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2 hours ago, JingleBoy said:

One thing I desperately hope this game does is explain where these games actually take place! If they want us to take this story seriously then they need to be consistent with this world that the characters live in, because they never really have taken these worlds seriously. So far I feel as though this game is a step backwards aesthetically from Lost World, and it's a shame because with Lost World I was thinking that they'd finally actually established a world for where these characters live.

I don't get how something like this:

  Hide contents

F6pVouh.png

Can just exist in the same lore as something like this:

  Hide contents

BpQMu1r.png

It's just really inconsistent. What happened to the flickies? That's what I wanna know...

(EDIT: I fixed it, sorry about that! New to this...)

 

So we're just going to ignore the fact that Sonic is literally on a different world in Lost World? :V

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2 minutes ago, Auto said:

Of course we shouldn't expect a demo so soon, I'm talking some more information or another trailer

Assuming this tweet is talking about this game...?

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10 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

Aaron Webber mentioned it in an interview recently, but he sounded very clear, concise, and confident in it, as if this has been a thing for ages.

He's also not the only person to have mentioned it, multiple people have reported on seeing the bible and have mentioned this being in it. It may not have always been a rule but it's in the latest iteration of the bible.

Like it or not, it's now canon and SEGA makes sure anyone who uses the core Sonic brand abides by this rule as of right now. Word of God is Word of God and no matter how much you disagree with it or think it's stupid, you can't present anything other than this as the official stance on the matter until an another official stance overrides it.

Well... I guess I'm gonna go ahead and consider "the complete lack of mention of this plot element in every single canon Sonic game to date" as "another official stance" for my own sanity.

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6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

c1ac0f489f6a3391b15847b4aaec9a86.jpg Sonic_Boom_-_Characters.jpg

You can't really say all official staples of Sonic uses this when two of the only official things we've gotten from the series has yet to include anything like that. Until a new game comes out and specifically states this, I'm treating it as a non-canon possible rule, considering two series of Sonic has nothing relating to that rule. In fact, to this point the only product with a rule like that is the OVA (X doesn't count as they are mentioned as two separate worlds entirely in that)

 

Note how I said "SEGA makes sure anyone who uses the core Sonic brand".

Archie and Boom are not the core Sonic brand. They are advertised as completely different continuities. I specifically recall Sonic Boom being referred to as a "spin-off brand" by SEGA.

The core Sonic brand is the main series games. The Classic games. The Adventure games. The Boost Trilogy. Lost World. And some of the handheld Sonic games. More or less anything directly developed by Sonic Team (and Dimps).

While some of these things contradict it, that's mostly earlier games, and like it has been noted, the bible gets updated over time.

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Jumping from one hour to 20+ is a pretty big leap, man. I'm not asking for JRPG length games, but Sonic Team themselves have admitted that the amount of content they can reasonably produce with boost gameplay isn't enough for a ~$60 game, and they've had to pad both Unleashed and Generations with cheaper secondary gameplay (Colors gets away with it by being slower and having much more 2D, but no one's holding that up as the standard for 3D Sonic).

I'm all for games cutting out padding, but a boost game just doesn't have enough meat to survive without it.

Unleashed and 06 took me about that long to beat on my first playthoughs, by virtue of 06 being a poorly designed slog with cheap deaths and Werehog levels/medal grinding in Unleashed bumping up the time, so was using that as a ballpark. They're the longest Sonic games IME. 

Generations (which didn't cost $60 on launch, iirc) has a lot of optional content (of mixed quality), mind. I mean... I don't know what your personal minimum expectation of game time from pressing start to end credits is for $60. Everyone's different - some expect a Skyrim or a Fallout for that kind of money. Longer than 4 hours, sure.

I'm not saying Generations' start-to-finish length is not an issue (it totally is, and it's the worst thing about the game besides Planet Wisp) but the boost games also strongly encourage replayability via collectables, timing and ranks, so its not as if they're unaware of it. 

IDK, I'd hold up Colours as the standard for 3D Sonic, because up until very recently I considered Generations as a one-off. It's still pretty much the best way to manage the issue of development time vs. content (better than Sonic Lost World, at any rate).  Sonic #Occupy has me reconsidering that 'one-off' status, natch. 

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3 hours ago, Fusion Runners said:

Assuming this tweet is talking about this game...?

"Just yet"? Hopefully this changes.

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As I've been reading through this thread more, I'm really hoping that classic Sonic plays totally different to the way he did in Generations. Classic Sonic felt awful in Generations, and I would always find myself ignoring the classic stages on subsequent run through's of the game. Especially with Mania being a thing, I doubt anyone would find Generations style classic Sonic gameplay satisfying or fun by comparison.

As a fan of boost, I'm not bothered by Modern Sonic playing like he did in Generations, but I would be very happy if Classic Sonic had more of an Adventure-esque style of play with 3D levels and all. Or if they wanted to keep him on a 2D plane, I'd hope they'd find some other way to have him play and feel. I wouldn't mind if they gave him a homing attack and a weaker spin dash. I don't know. All I know is that I don't want him to play at all like in Generations.

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3 minutes ago, ChikoLad said:

Note how I said "SEGA makes sure anyone who uses the core Sonic brand".

Archie and Boom are not the core Sonic brand. They are advertised as completely different continuities. I specifically recall Sonic Boom being referred to as a "spin-off brand" by SEGA.

The core Sonic brand is the main series games. The Classic games. The Adventure games. The Boost Trilogy. Lost World. And some of the handheld Sonic games. More or less anything directly developed by Sonic Team (and Dimps).

While some of these things contradict it, that's mostly earlier games, and like it has been noted, the bible gets updated over time.

Except your point still falls apart because nothing of the core Sonic brand has come out to indicate anything of this two worlds bullshit. Literally the only thing that has used that concept is the OVA and that's it. 

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3 hours ago, Apple Kid said:

Especially with Mania being a thing, I doubt anyone would find Generations style classic Sonic gameplay satisfying or fun by comparison.

Many still loved it after holding how the classic games played so close due to Sonic 4E1 doing it so poorly, and even then, classic Sonic wasn't as horribly off as it could've been.

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Generations Classic Sonic is a lot closer to the classic's than Sonic 4 is, but that was when we had nothing else. Now there's Mania, which will blow both of those out of the water.

I don't believe Sonic Team can emulate the genesis games in terms of physics, so I can only hope they play to their strengths and find some other way to make kid Sonic feel fun and fresh in his own way.

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