Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Tenko]

 

34 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I really hope the fact that they're not immediately revealing it means there's something surprising in store for us

You mean the #Ianfornextsonicgame thing might have worked?

[JosepHenry]

Ian Flynn is a freelancer writer, now possibly more freelancer than ever with the possible death of Archie Sonic.

So... Why not have him write a Sonic game?

[Celestia]

I seem to recall that the writing team for Lost World was revealed early on post-announcement. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Could be that they're just saving it for later. My prediction is that it'll work the same way as Colours & Generations--Pontac & Graff write the script, but don't have much freedom beyond that. That seems like the safest bet.

24 minutes ago, Tenko said:

You mean the #Ianfornextsonicgame thing might have worked?

That's a possibility. I doubt it, but in general "there's new writer(s)" would be one reason to not say anything right away, and he could very well be the one.

I'm just skeptical because of the whispers that Archie Sonic was cancelled (or is at least in danger of it) due to SEGA. Then again, it would be hilarious if they cancelled the book but hired Flynn to write a game. That sounds just wild enough to be SEGA™, y'know?

[Bowbowis]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I really hope the fact that they're not immediately revealing it means there's something surprising in store for us

(. . . ShiroMaekawaorIanFlynnShiroMaekawaorIanFlynnShiroMaekawaorIanFlynn . . .)

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

It would honestly be cool to have Flynn writing the story for this one. What was really neat about the writing post reboot were the characters/interactions.

And if, (MAJOR IF) he's writing the story involving Eggman actually taking over the world... 

I for one cannot wait to hear Eggman (possibly) gloating about his victory, and interacting/taunting Sonic how it happened in issue 175.

too short didn't read: I would be really hyped to see how the character dialogue would be in this game if Flynn is writing it, but that's a loooong shot.

 

[blazefan519]

3 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I know I'm probably the only one who cares but I'm really interested in hearing how Colleen is going to differentiate her Tails voice from her Charmy voice. 

Well, for the slight instances you hear her Tails and Charmy in the Rio Olympics, Tails is considerably deeper, while her Charmy is higher pitched, eccentric, and wacky. That might change due to the fact that Forces will have more lines for them, though.

[Chris Knopps]

48 minutes ago, Fusion Ellipsis said:

It would honestly be cool to have Flynn writing the story for this one. What was really neat about the writing post reboot were the characters/interactions.

And if, (MAJOR IF) he's writing the story involving Eggman actually taking over the world... 

I for one cannot wait to hear Eggman (possibly) gloating about his victory, and interacting/taunting Sonic how it happened in issue 175.

too short didn't read: I would be really hyped to see how the character dialogue would be in this game if Flynn is writing it, but that's a loooong shot.

 

Pfffft HAAAAA ha ha ha ha!!!

You really think they will EVER let Eggman be like that in the games? They've hammered the "Incompetent fat man with a wacky laugh" persona into him so completely and to such an overpowering degree it would be pretty much OUT of character for him to have the capacity to say something like that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly but man, it's just not possible. We'll see a rainbow showering skittles in reality before Eggman sounds that cool in the games again.

[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Pfffft HAAAAA ha ha ha ha!!!

You really think they will EVER let Eggman be like that in the games? They've hammered the "Incompetent fat man with a wacky laugh" persona into him so completely and to such an overpowering degree it would be pretty much OUT of character for him to have the capacity to say something like that.

I agree with you wholeheartedly but man, it's just not possible. We'll see a rainbow showering skittles in reality before Eggman sounds that cool in the games again.

You never know, we could see a darker depiction of Eggman again if Sonic Forces is any indication. The whole post-apocalyptic modern stage does suggest that Eggman is taking things more seriously this time. Assuming of course, it isn't someone like Eggman Nega that's really behind the succesful bid for global conquest.

Still, I agree with the other posts who wanted to see Ian Flynn write a Sonic game. I think that even the weaker plots of recent Sonic games could have been vastly improved had Flynn been the one to write the dialogue instead of Pontac and Graff.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Kintor said:

You never know, we could see a darker depiction of Eggman again if Sonic Forces is any indication. The whole post-apocalyptic modern stage does suggest that Eggman is taking things more seriously this time. Assuming of course, it isn't someone like Eggman Nega that's really behind the succesful bid for global conquest.

Still, I agree with the other posts who wanted to see Ian Flynn write a Sonic game. I think that even the weaker plots of recent Sonic games could have been vastly improved had Flynn been the one to write the dialogue instead of Pontac and Graff.

It's really a matter of where my expectations are.

I'm not considering anything "better" than what we got in Lost World out of Eggman at most, a bunch of awkward attempts at making him "look" and "sound" cool jumbled up in whatever manner they can think of.

With this thought process.... I suppose one COULD be surprised, amazed even at what Forces may offer consumers out of Eggman, but...

After the past few games, I'm just hoping he is the main villain from start to finish no matter how terrible his character is, at least he will have the spotlight again to where it doesn't seem like even the company is uninterested in him.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

It's really a matter of where my expectations are.

I'm not considering anything "better" than what we got in Lost World out of Eggman at most, a bunch of awkward attempts at making him "look" and "sound" cool jumbled up in whatever manner they can think of.

With this thought process.... I suppose one COULD be surprised, amazed even at what Forces may offer consumers out of Eggman, but...

After the past few games, I'm just hoping he is the main villain from start to finish no matter how terrible his character is, at least he will have the spotlight again to where it doesn't seem like even the company is uninterested in him.

Honestly, I think that Eggman has suffered the least from the bad scripts, which is in no small part due to the brilliant voice acting of Mike Pollock. There's a reason why Pollock survived while the rest of the Sonic X were replaced, his portrayals of Eggman are damn near perfect. Even something stupid like those PA announcements in Sonic Colours can become a highlight of the game thanks to his on point delivery of those lines. So I think that if Sonic Forces even gets a halfway decent script with a dark tone we'll see a great and menacing depiction of Eggman, Pollock will always get the most out of the material he's given.

[Blacklightning]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

You really think they will EVER let Eggman be like that in the games? They've hammered the "Incompetent fat man with a wacky laugh" persona into him so completely and to such an overpowering degree it would be pretty much OUT of character for him to have the capacity to say something like that.

"As long as I can strangle a Zeti, my hands are fine." - Eggman, 2013

I dunno man, say what you will about his current characterization but they haven't exactly shut the door on it =V

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Blacklightning said:

"As long as I can strangle a Zeti, my hands are fine." - Eggman, 2013

I dunno man, say what you will about his current characterization but they haven't exactly shut the door on it =V

Quote

I'm not considering anything "better" than what we got in Lost World out of Eggman at most, a bunch of awkward attempts at making him "look" and "sound" cool jumbled up in whatever manner they can think of.

I already brought that up actually. lol

Keep in mind, I did say this is my expectation. Thus it IS possible to be surprised. But expectations come before hype.

[StaticMania]

Sooo...are you saying that Lost World's characterization is low expectations or is Lost World's characterization middling?

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Far as I'm concerned, Sonic's lost world characterization is good... That is, if you look at the voice lines individually and the story beats from a detached distance.
I love the general idea of what they do with Dr. Eggman and he has some great moments and lines....If I look at them in a disconnected void.
Lost world's problem is that there's little to no flow, context or consequences to anything. As Chrs Knopps said, it comes out of nowhere, and/or goes nowhere most of the time. And that just makes it feel fake and forced.
It's hard to care about Eggman's complexity in saving Tails or his anger at the Yeti's betrayal if he just becomes a meaningless bumbling idiot at the finale anyway. Not that him being a bumbling idiot is necessarily a wrong characterization of Eggman, he can definitly have moments like this. But after all the cool stuff Lost world build up to that point, it's utterly tone deaf and awkward.
So I suppose it's more the story rhytm and flow that's the issue, not the characterization itself.


Well, outside of Sonic immediatly insulting the Yeti without provacation.
I think he should be more Bugs Bunny esque and let his opponents dig their own grave more then immediatly going open season with the insults. Not to mention you'd think he'd be in more of a hurry then to be provocating opponents who weren't an active obstacle yet. Oh and Tails could use a little more modesty, geez. But now I'm going on a tangent.


But other then that, the general idea of the characters was pretty good. It's the execution is just terrible, with character arcs going nowhere and the admittingly cool scenes just coming out of nowhere and immediatly evaporating. And for that reason, I'm not happy if Pontac and Graff return again, altough to be fair to them,Sonic Boom Fire and Ice's story was a lot better, with the plot having a lot more of a story flow and rhtym to them.
So maybe they learned their lesson and are awesome at writing now...... Or Fire and Ice's story was just so bare bones and simple that even they couldn't screw it up . Who knows.

I don't know, Sonic Forces is already on thin ice when it comes to customer trust, not sure if you want to introduce another unstable element. So while I'm personally reluctantly willing to give Pontaff another shot, anouncing their involvement might be another damaging hit to the already unstable lead up to this game.
So definitly from a marketing perspective, I really hope they don't.

[Plinius]

It would be pretty cool to see a more complex story and playable characters in the Generations format. Generations was already an amazing game, and the plot and lack of playable characters was probably the weakest aspect of the game.

Hopefully the other characters will make more of an appearance (we know they will unfortunately not be playable) and the plot will live up to the cool dark tone they are aiming for!

Then again, this is Generations 2 really, so it's almost certainly going to be amazing! No real complaints from me

[Salamander]

I think there's a possibility that we'll see a shift to a darker tone for Eggman in Forces.  Consider the way he's already apparently abandoned his usual gaudy stylings for his various robots, many of which now sport darker or plain-metal colour schemes with alien, cyclopic eyes.  There's something interesting going on there... well, hopefully.

[Alienrun]

16 hours ago, Scar said:

This is where I'm at.

It'll be a fun game. It just won't be a great game, and lord knows I want this franchise to produce a great game. And I mean a truly great game that stands the test of time. None of this SA1/2/Colours/Generations type of great that turns out to not be so great after a few years.

Also, I'm not going to write off the music this early. That weird Green Hill Music aside, I think it'll have a pretty good OST.

I'm sorry...I've been lurking these forums for quite a while...but I had to stop to ask this...

What exactly do you say qualifies as a "great game" in the sonic series if SA1/2/Colors/Gens don't count? More so you say they "turn out to not be so great after a while."

Now granted I've heard people say that for each of these games individually from time to time...but for all 3?! Not once?

Which Sonic game stands out as "great" to you outside of the classics lol? I'm genuienly curious what it is and why!

[Pawn]

14 minutes ago, Alienrun said:

I'm sorry...I've been lurking these forums for quite a while...but I had to stop to ask this...

What exactly do you say qualifies as a "great game" in the sonic series if SA1/2/Colors/Gens don't count? More so you say they "turn out to not be so great after a while."

Now granted I've heard people say that for each of these games individually from time to time...but for all 3?! Not once?

Which Sonic game stands out as "great" to you outside of the classics lol? I'm genuienly curious what it is and why!

You're assuming that he thinks any of them are.

[Meta77]

5 hours ago, Plinius said:

It would be pretty cool to see a more complex story and playable characters in the Generations format. Generations was already an amazing game, and the plot and lack of playable characters was probably the weakest aspect of the game.

Hopefully the other characters will make more of an appearance (we know they will unfortunately not be playable) and the plot will live up to the cool dark tone they are aiming for!

Then again, this is Generations 2 really, so it's almost certainly going to be amazing! No real complaints from me

Generations lacked  a interesting plot. It lavjec replay value beside oh red rings. It lacked length.

This is generations 2.0 so far and exactly why it's hype levels are dropping into doom and gloom atm. Also lack of info shows lack of faith going forward.  we didn't need classic sonic stick in this the trailer looked good till he popped up all bright smiles in a world on fire. Regardless kids will eat the game up. They like simple things.

E3 is going to be the moment of truth for forces.  mania is fine atm though it seems

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, Alienrun said:

I'm sorry...I've been lurking these forums for quite a while...but I had to stop to ask this...

What exactly do you say qualifies as a "great game" in the sonic series if SA1/2/Colors/Gens don't count? More so you say they "turn out to not be so great after a while."

Now granted I've heard people say that for each of these games individually from time to time...but for all 3?! Not once?

Which Sonic game stands out as "great" to you outside of the classics lol? I'm genuienly curious what it is and why!

I can't speak for Scar, but I have my own opinions on the subject. A "great game" is one that, as Scar says, stands the test of time. It's one thing for a game to be well received at the time of it's release, but another thing for people to happily go back to it time and time again in the future. If we take take a look at the reception of Sonic Adventure 2 over the years, it tells you that people aren't happy with it anymore. Metacritic gives it scores of 89 on the Dreamcast, 73 on the Gamecube and 60 on the 360. If other games, like the Classic Sonic series or just about any Zelda game to use a non-Sonic example can still be viewed positively over the years, why can't SA2? It's because the game has flaws that weren't apparent at first, or because the game has aged badly compared to other games that came out a around the same time. Just look at the enormous list of games from 2001 that people still look on fondly - Halo, Paper Mario, GTAIII, Smash Bros. Melee... the list goes on. 

SA1 and SA2 share some problems, and most noticeable is that they offer unfocused and unrefined experiences. While it may have been impressive back in the day to include all those different gameplay styles, it's much easier for people now to say that large portions of those games weren't actually enjoyable. Things like voice acting and even 3D games themselves were something of a novelty at the turn of the century, so opinions were a bit clouded and people looked on them favourably.

Colours and Generations aren't all that different. I personally believe that both games suffer from a lot of poor design in the controls, level layouts, physics and depth. Heck, I've been saying it since 2010, "Sonic Colours is the worst good Sonic game". They have issues that have become more apparent over time to a lot of the audience. Their novelty is that they're the first Sonic 3D Sonic games in a while that aren't awful. Back in 2010, the notion of 3D Sonic game not being absolutely shite was practically unthinkable, so Colours was a pleasant surprise. Now that time has passed and we're more used to the games, people say things like "the physics aren't very good", "the games play themselves" and "these games are mostly in 2D". You could also look at Sonic 4. Critics loved it to begin with, but it doesn't get as much positive attention form them now.

Ultimately it's all subjective - I'm just stressing that so nobody starts screaming at me for decrying their favourite game or whatever. You might still love any of the games mentioned and think they're great. But it's hard to argue that they aren't all held in the same high regard as before. Generations is still pretty hot with a lot of people for the simple fact that it wasn't a bad game at all; it delivered a solid Sonic experience that did much more right that it did wrong. As this forum is proving though, it wasn't perfect. Without going into the specifics, the criticisms of Forces comes from two areas....

1. It's relying too much on Generations.
2. In addition, it's not showing any improvements on it. The criticisms that people have for that game are exacerbated here because they're still present.

No Sonic game is going to be great until they release one that people still love for years and years to come. They got to be able to stand the test of time, and be just as good as other games on the market, and the games that are already widely acclaimed as "great". 

Mania's right on track tho'

[Waveshocker Sigma]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I can't speak for Scar, but I have my own opinions on the subject. A "great game" is one that, as Scar says, stands the test of time. It's one thing for a game to be well received at the time of it's release, but another thing for people to happily go back to it time and time again in the future. If we take take a look at the reception of Sonic Adventure 2 over the years, it tells you that people aren't happy with it anymore. Metacritic gives it scores of 89 on the Dreamcast, 73 on the Gamecube and 60 on the 360. If other games, like the Classic Sonic series or just about any Zelda game to use a non-Sonic example can still be viewed positively over the years, why can't SA2? It's because the game has flaws that weren't apparent at first, or because the game has aged badly compared to other games that came out a around the same time. Just look at the enormous list of games from 2001 that people still look on fondly - Halo, Paper Mario, GTAIII, Smash Bros. Melee... the list goes on. 

SA1 and SA2 share some problems, and most noticeable is that they offer unfocused and unrefined experiences. While it may have been impressive back in the day to include all those different gameplay styles, it's much easier for people now to say that large portions of those games weren't actually enjoyable. Things like voice acting and even 3D games themselves were something of a novelty at the turn of the century, so opinions were a bit clouded and people looked on them favourably.

Colours and Generations aren't all that different. I personally believe that both games suffer from a lot of poor design in the controls, level layouts, physics and depth. Heck, I've been saying it since 2010, "Sonic Colours is the worst good Sonic game". They have issues that have become more apparent over time to a lot of the audience. Their novelty is that they're the first Sonic 3D Sonic games in a while that aren't awful. Back in 2010, the notion of 3D Sonic game not being absolutely shite was practically unthinkable, so Colours was a pleasant surprise. Now that time has passed and we're more used to the games, people say things like "the physics aren't very good", "the games play themselves" and "these games are mostly in 2D". You could also look at Sonic 4. Critics loved it to begin with, but it doesn't get as much positive attention form them now.

Ultimately it's all subjective - I'm just stressing that so nobody starts screaming at me for decrying their favourite game or whatever. You might still love any of the games mentioned and think they're great. But it's hard to argue that they aren't all held in the same high regard as before. Generations is still pretty hot with a lot of people for the simple fact that it wasn't a bad game at all; it delivered a solid Sonic experience that did much more right that it did wrong. As this forum is proving though, it wasn't perfect. Without going into the specifics, the criticisms of Forces comes from two areas....

1. It's relying too much on Generations.
2. In addition, it's not showing any improvements on it. The criticisms that people have for that game are exacerbated here because they're still present.

No Sonic game is going to be great until they release one that people still love for years and years to come.

 

Okay. So the game "just' has to be good enough for people to love for years and years to come.

Well, that just leaves us with a much bigger problem and loaded question that will probably have multiple clashing answers:

How?

Exactly how does a 3D Sonic game need to be made, structured, designed and formatted to where it's gameplay will receive that love from the general gaming public while also appeasing the majority of it's incredibly varied and nitpicky fanbase?

What's something that almost everyone here can agree on that they'd want and enjoy?

Please don't say "just make it good" unironically. That may technically be an answer, it sure isn't insightful one that teaches anyone anything. (In other words, just because you're correct, doesn't mean you're right.)

I'll just immediately add fuel to the fire with something not everyone will agree with and say I'd enjoy a game made like Sonic Utopia above anything else the series has previously offered. Simple reasoning for why can be found in this lazy copypasta from a status I made last night after playing it for 4 hours.

 

Today, I played a little Generations and remembered why I liked the game. Then I played Utopia right after and completely forgot because of how much more fun I was having with it. 3 or 4 hours alter, I've just stopped and I already wanna go back to playing it.

Good lord, Utopia is just super fun to play around in. I usually only focus on getting to the end of a stage quickly in Sonic games but Utopia is the first one I've ever played that made me want to actively play completely different from usual and just keep running, jumping, bouncing, flying and speeding off of every floor, hill and incline I could find. I'd seriously love a full game like this. Even if it ended up being something other than reaching the goal in every stage.

Heck, I could even see a Super Mario 64 style mission-based game working around stages like these just because of how much find you could having messing around still feel like you're playing what most people consider to be a "Sonic game".

But yeah. That's all. Just revisiting Sonic Utopia and yammering about how much fun it is. I like fun things. They make me feel happy. o o

...This is way too long for a status message that no one is going to read, though. lol

[Indigo Rush]

49 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

No Sonic game is going to be great until they release one that people still love for years and years to come.

What they need to do is make a Sonic game for Maniacs like us.

 

 

 

 

Waaaaaaaaaaaait  

[Alienrun]

3 hours ago, Pawn said:

You're assuming that he thinks any of them are.

Yes I am! Apologies on my part...

I just assumed that because I find it very unlikely that a "Classic only fan" would be anywhere near a forum. No offense to anyone who is, its just I assume that kind of person would have VERY little interest discussing the newer games, especially on a forum with more dedicated fans.

But yee...I thought that was a given. (For the record there is a difference between "I like Classic best" and "I ONLY like Classic".)

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Ultimately it's all subjective - I'm just stressing that so nobody starts screaming at me for decrying their favourite game or whatever. You might still love any of the games mentioned and think they're great. But it's hard to argue that they aren't all held in the same high regard as before.

Well I mean...you could argue that's true for the classics as well. But that might have to do with the fact that newer games make the old ones look bad (or that sonic was never good to begin with wink wink), likewise to a much much MUCH lesser extent the same could be said about SA2.

If anything, most of us here can agree Classic Sonic and Unleashed get quite a bit of praise in their respective circle jerks...

Basically I don't think a game needs to be as popular or "timeless" as Zelda to be a "great game". Like...a lot of really good games came out on the genesis, (gunstar heroes, ristar.) but people don't remember those very much compared to your Link to the Past and Super Metroids because those games have a longer legacy due to having a series tied to them...same could be said for Sonic really.

1 hour ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Okay. So the game "just' has to be good enough for people to love for years and years to come.

Well, that just leaves us with a much bigger problem and loaded question that will probably have multiple clashing answers:

How?

Exactly how does a 3D Sonic game need to be made, structured, designed and formatted to where it's gameplay will receive that love from the general gaming public while also appeasing the majority of it's incredibly varied and nitpicky fanbase?

What's something that almost everyone here can agree on that they'd want and enjoy?

Please don't say "just make it good" unironically. That may technically be an answer, it sure isn't insightful one that teaches anyone anything. (In other words, just because you're correct, doesn't mean you're right.)

And here lies the biggest problem I have with this whole "perfect sonic game" thing...

I don't think there exists "one" singular fanbase but rather a network of multiple fanbases under the same umbrella...lemme put it another way...

 

I have never found a fanbase anywhere near as divided as this one, and I've been a part of multiple different fanbases in my time. The second you say "how can we make a game to appeal to the whole fanbase?" is the second you lost the argument.

Granted I've seen other fanbases argue over differing things they value in said medias continuity, but they can all come together under having a common understanding on what they like when the time is right.

I've seen fanbases chip off their casual side and only the hardcore remain due to a lack of official content...

 

To this day I laugh when people say "The Smash fanbase is divided."...because while its true that it is very divided when compared to other fighting game communities... (and its a lot more social than most fanbases so you could argue its more important here.) ...these guys got nothing on us...arguing over 5 games is nothing compared to our 10, 20 (sometimes 30+) games we usually argue about as being "the most important/best" ect.

Even taking into account the casual vs competitive aspect it just doesn't add up...because at the end of the day the games have always been made with the same audience in mind and every ultimately wants the same thing...to have fun with other fellow "smashers".

 

Sonic unfortunately doesn't get even that priveledge...I've not been compelled to argue any where near as much here as other places, and I don't think its purely because of "passion" or because I went through teen phase some years ago. To put it simply I've talked to other "sonic fans" that I swear I simply would not get along with that well if I met them in real life...at least not immidiately. (this is ignoring any cringe factors mind you) ...and I think I know why that is...

 

Sonic has managed to strike gold with its ideas...but not in the way you'd think. Anytime the franchise has met a new "high point" its always been to a different audience and to a slightly different generation. I don't think this franchise has stayed alive out of pure coinsedence or iconicness or whatever bs excuse you wanna throw...

 

To put it more simply...

Sonic 3 to a lot of people is the high point of series and what defines who/what sonic is to them...

Sonic Adventure 2 to a lot of people is the high point of the series and what defines who/what sonic is to them...

Sonic Unleashed to a lot of people is the high point of the series and what defines who/what sonic is to them...

(and this isn't covering every game oviously, this is just the biggest 3 examples off the top of my head.)

 

Now obviously that ideology isn't unique to the sonic series...what is is that these 3 games have a passionate "mini" fanbase to them that atracted a lot of different people AND are successful for very different reasons. They are all, in theory, very different games despite their similarities.

And unlike smash bros...there is not enough social pressence in the fanbase to ease the bonding between these sets of people. (you'd could argue even these individual games have split communities...specifically SA2.) Its just a big mess because there is no consistent goal for these fanbases to have, nothing pulling them together...except for the literal fact of new sonic games comming out...without that most of these fanbases would be dead by now...

 

Now obviously that's oversimplifying it but I can't help but feel that's the case as a whole.

IWBTG, SiIva, and Smash fanbases are pretty divisive at times, but I NEVER had trouble traversing them because it was very obvious where the borders are.

Sonic isn't like that, its not obvious...and when you do figure it out, the drive to bring everyone up to your level just isn't there...its not worth it due to the lower social construct and BECAUSE ITSNOT NATURAL.

 

...And I think everyone in there right mind wants new sonic games to be made...naturally. Some just want fanservice, but that fanservice can be delivered in a more mature manner. (insert retarded green hill joke here)

 

TL;DR giving a sonic game that EVERYONE can like is a lost cause...even mania got a bit of backlash when it was first revealed (just a rom hack right?!)

 

 

Oh you wanted a shorter answer...uhh...

 

Just give us SA3...there, that's the solution!

 

 

[Diogenes]

13 minutes ago, Alienrun said:

Basically I don't think a game needs to be as popular or "timeless" as Zelda to be a "great game". Like...a lot of really good games came out on the genesis, (gunstar heroes, ristar.) but people don't remember those very much compared to your Link to the Past and Super Metroids because those games have a longer legacy due to having a series tied to them...same could be said for Sonic really.

A game doesn't have to be a massive success to be great, but it should have qualities that hold up over time. Gunstar Heroes isn't massively popular, but you can go back to it even now and it's still a solid, creative, and fun game. The same can be said of the Genesis Sonics, to varying degrees. I don't think that can honestly be said about something like Sonic Adventure, though, as it's plagued by poor collision, bad voice acting and cutscene animation, and a bunch of questionable gameplay gimmicks. SA is a game that only appeals to people who are already fans of it.

And no one expects a single Sonic game to perfectly please all Sonic fans. Any opportunity for that died well over a decade ago. But the series can't survive trying to please everyone at once; Forces more than anything shows how it's tearing itself apart trying to court just two sides in one game. It needs to accept that not everyone is going to get exactly what they want and aim to create a singular identity that draws in a wide variety of fans.

[Nuggets]

33 minutes ago, Alienrun said:

I have never found a fanbase anywhere near as divided as this one, and I've been a part of multiple different fanbases in my time. The second you say "how can we make a game to appeal to the whole fanbase?" is the second you lost the argument.

I'd argue that Forces is SEGA's attempt at trying their hand at answering this question (I'd willing to bet that Bubsy/Future Sonic/Create Your Own Expy is about to be some 3D roaming Adventure/2 type shit) and yet they still can't even seem to do that right. I think right now the biggest issue SEGA has is shoving everything in one game. The ridiculous 3-way 4 WAY  split the fanbase has been in since 2008 or so I think could have worked, on some level. Had Boom turned out how it was supposed to, the series model would've been... Okay. Mainline releases would've been relegated to boost games, and while a lot here think that shit's unfixable, I think with incremental  touch-ups we could eventually have a great game. The essence of Boom, what it was meant to be, I think would've satisfied Adventure fans (as much as that's possible), and Mania obviously works for the 2D fans. Easier said than done, but pumping out titles in like those in staggered years I feel like would've been sustainable for Sonic, with some quality control, not that much different from how Mario has his main titles and then the NSMB titles. It's obviously not perfect (the series fragmentation is just a very unique issue) but I feel like on some level, everyone gets what they want there. 

Instead though, it's been failure after failure since 2011, and now Sonic Team is so quick to get everyone back in their good graces that they're shoving everything that has ever worked back into Forces (and to boot, half of it isn't even working). It's an anniversary game, so like, it makes sense on a basic level, but this game is coming at a time where what the series really needs is a sense of solidarity again, and instead Sonic Team is throwing everything at a wall begging people to love them again. There'd probably be a lot of moaning if Forces was just a boost game (this is the Sonic fanbase), but adding Classic Sonic in again has the undertone of "we don't really know what to do anymore", and I feel like it's resulted in more rolled eyes overall, especially because we already have Mania, and, more importantly they still can't do the damn classic physics right.

(does anyone else think it's weird that SEGA keeps forcing in another gameplay style with the boost tho, be it Werehog, Classic Sonic, or an abundance of 2D platforming (Colors was barely a 3D game)? Its like they have no confidence in letting it just stand on its own)