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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


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Roger_van_der_weide

Far as the worth of the Sonic Adventure's go, I tend to think it's more their energy and passion is their true worth, not the technical execution. They survive as an emotion in time, not a timeless exhibit in a museum.
It's Woodstock, man. Rock and Roll magic for those who were there, a puddle of mud in the middle of nowhere for those who weren't.
So if your hypothetical Sonic Adventure 3 would be the solution to the problem and be the perfect timeless Sonic game, then it's doing a terrible job at being Sonic Adventure. Rock and Roll is not meant to last, it's meant to live wild and die young.


I'm surprised Generation's reputation is falling. I figured that'd be the closest we get to a solid SonicTeam Sonic game. It even managed to more or less take all the best parts of Classic/ Adventure and Modern gameplay (Minus the physics I suppose) and merge them together to a cohesive whole.
An impressive feat.
Alas, I fear Generations might be suffering the same fate as Sonic Adventure 2 did, that besides being judged on it's own (admittingly wonky) merits, it's also being judged as the enforcer of an unpleasant trend. SA2 is blamed to a degree for Shadow and Sonic 06 and that starts weighing on it's reputation as well, and I'm sure Generations is now being blamed for all the Nostalgia obsession games.
It's not fair, but that's how the world rolls.


Either way, I'm baffled why so many people look for perfection in a Sonic game. Sonic games is like going to a themepark, far as I'm concerned. Yeah, you'll be waiting in line. Yeah, your favorite attraction happens to be closed down because of technical difficulities. Yeah, the food is expensive, and someone puked on the pathway. But eventually you'll find your way to an awesome rollercoaster, and have the time of your life. To me, it's not about what's wrong with a Sonic game, it's about whether the awesome parts are so good that you don't mind the bad parts anymore.

Of course, Sonic Mania is well on it's way to possibly prove me wrong. That game does have the ambition to become a timeless classic, and being well executed.
Altough I fear it's super reliance on older zones will cost it some points. The people who love the game will not care, but it will always be an easy weapon for people opposed to the classic gameplay to knock it down a peg. Not to mention the bad timing, the whole Nostalgia bubble is bursting in general. The new Star Wars movies already suffered from this, and they were a lot more subtle and smart about their usage of Nostalgia then Sonic ever was. So, as far as Sonic Mania reaching a timeless super classic entitie goes, I fear not. Let's hope Mania does well, then get's a sequel and that sequel is allowed to fully stand on it's own merits.
For now, let's just take it as a fun game, and God forbid, maybe an inspiration for Sonic Team Senpai to be more focused in the future.


Far as the main Sonic team games are concerned, forget about it.  I don't get the sense they're ever interested in tighting things up. Sonic Team comes across to me like Leonardo Da Vinci, filled with ideas and too restless to ever see one come to it's proper conclusion.
I wish Sega would let Sonic Team make half a game, then boot them out of the office and let a more disciplined team finish up. Oh well.
Best not worry whether Forces will be perfect, or even Great. The real question is if they manage to include enough cool bits to make it worth sitting trough a couple mistakes. In the end, that's the healthiest aproach to Sonic.

 

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Indigo Rush

You forgot to add the second Sonic. How can I enjoy a Sonic game if there aren't at least two of them in it???

 

(Azoo is absolutely right)

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Soooo basically make Green Hill Paradise Act 2, but a full game...

I wouldn't mind. Not that I hate what I saw about Forces, but yeah, something like that would be neat.

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1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Far as the worth of the Sonic Adventure's go, I tend to think it's more their energy and passion is their true worth, not the technical execution. They survive as an emotion in time, not a timeless exhibit in a museum.
It's Woodstock, man. Rock and Roll magic for those who were there, a puddle of mud in the middle of nowhere for those who weren't.
So if your hypothetical Sonic Adventure 3 would be the solution to the problem and be the perfect timeless Sonic game, then it's doing a terrible job at being Sonic Adventure. Rock and Roll is not meant to last, it's meant to live wild and die young.


I'm surprised Generation's reputation is falling. I figured that'd be the closest we get to a solid SonicTeam Sonic game. It even managed to more or less take all the best parts of Classic/ Adventure and Modern gameplay (Minus the physics I suppose) and merge them together to a cohesive whole.
An impressive feat.
Alas, I fear Generations might be suffering the same fate as Sonic Adventure 2 did, that besides being judged on it's own (admittingly wonky) merits, it's also being judged as the enforcer of an unpleasant trend. SA2 is blamed to a degree for Shadow and Sonic 06 and that starts weighing on it's reputation as well, and I'm sure Generations is now being blamed for all the Nostalgia obsession games.
It's not fair, but that's how the world rolls.
 

I agree with that first paragraph regarding how the adventure games are viewed...its the novelty of what they were that keeps people comming back tbh.

Regarding that second paragraph, I can kinda see what you mean but its not 100% correct. People (right now for example) aren't really saying that Gens was crap just because of Forces. They are saying that it inspired Sega to be more lazy with they're approach in how they are marketing they're games (lets be honest...that's what most of us here are mad at) alongside the usual "boost 2 win" complaints. Not sure a lot of people are saying its a bad game though or that too many people are saying its a lot worse than before (maybe, its hard to tell)

Though to be fair if we're gonna put the blame on sega being lazy with "coming up with new ideas" and Nostalgia Whoring...I think Sonic 4 is a much better suited target. ;)

 

Finally regarding that whole "It's meant to live wild and die young" that would make sense if Sonic...you know, evolved a bit. (part of the reason people are wanting to go back to the 06 days ironically)

The problem with this statement is that your essentially giving up on the idea of reinventing sonic and making the idea better...making it more than just "hold right to win"...that's what sonic is, but how many people want sonic to STAY that way...the classics are right there, fangames are a thing. Do we really need Mania in that context?

With that said I don't blame you, Sega doesn't really seem interested in taking big risks or making sufficient improvements without retconing everything that's been worked up to that point in the next game...

 

It's all whatever though, the fact Forces was able to get me a little exited back when it was first revealed (minus Classic sonic of course) says something on Sega's understanding that they have to do...something...with they're franchise besides nostalgia whoring it!

Basically I think most of us can agree that Forces looks better than Lost World at any rate...we just want better lol.

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So, how much of Eggman's presence do you guys want?

I hope you can only encounter him in the final boss and nothing else. Kinda like that RPG final boss that you only encounter at the end of the game after he conquers the world. (Kefka from FFVI)

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Do you think it's likely we'll see something similar to Eggman's taunting in SA2's Crazy Gadget, or the Eggman PSAs in Colours? I think it could be pretty cool to hear Eggman interrupting transmissions from Sonic's friends just to gloat and taunt Sonic, perhaps sounding more frustrated the further you get into the game.

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10 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Villains like that in a game like this tend to be really crap.

Given what kind of character Eggman is and the nature of this game, Eggman needs to be a constant presence in the game, constantly mocking you and constantly ruining your day until you finally beat him at the end.

Take a look at a Borderlands 2, Handsome Jack is a great villain in that... however you don't actually meet him until right at the end of the game... so why is he so good? Because he's constantly calling you, telling you that you suck, insulting you in every way, and laughing every time he scores a minor victory.

That's how Eggman should be, even if you beat him at the end of the first act boss fight, I want Eggman to quickly run back into frame, kick Sonic so he loses his rings, and laugh like a maniac as he runs off. 

And I agree with you!

I WANT him to act just like Handsome Jack. But he doesn't need to face Sonic by himself until the end, if you know what I mean. He can talk with Sonic throughout the game.

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36 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

So, how much of Eggman's presence do you guys want?

I hope you can only encounter him in the final boss and nothing else. Kinda like that RPG final boss that you only encounter at the end of the game after he conquers the world. (Kefka from FFVI)

Meh, he's been doing that way too much as of late. Villains who don't show up until the end generally only work if they're so unspeakably powerful that they would completely break the story if they appeared earlier (e.g. Ganondorf), a shadowy manipulator pulling the strings from behind the scenes while other villains provide a more direct threat throughout the story (e.g. Emperor Palpatine), or both.

Eggman isn't quite that powerful and, while he's perfectly capable of being manipulative, he loves attention too much to stick to the shadows. Really his habit of sitting around in his chair rather than actively doing anything to stop Sonic is a major reason why he seems so pathetic in games like Colors. If you ask me, Eggman works best when he's constantly out on the front lines, acting as a constant threat to Sonic and friends. Preferably he'd also be out kicking ass and taking names on the side: 

But it isn't mandatory.

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StaticMania

Well, knowing that Eggman is doing something is more than enough. Like, even if he doesn't constantly show up as a boss, at least showing that he's trying to further his goals would be pretty neat.

 

Games like Unleashed and Colors don't even do that, he only gets halfway there and we don't see him do anything the rest of the game. That's just weak.

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At minimum I think they should have him pilot boss mechs again. Not just the final boss, but all (or at least most) of 'em. Ideally he'd also be doing things plot wise too, but I could live without that as long as he shows up to actively get in your way as opposed to sending others to do the job.

Funnily enough, if they were still doing that sort of thing, I'd say the premise behind this game would actually make me want the opposite--have him so confident in his victory that most of what he does is in cutscenes until the end. But since that's the standard now, uhh...

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Is that it seems the bosses are going to be the Egg Sentinels, instead of Eggman himself...

He still hasn't show up yet, that why I think he will only pilot the final mech. That's why I can't wait for E3. I need more information...

I would be fine if he pilots every mech.

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11 minutes ago, Joseph Mello said:

Is that it seems the bosses are going to be the Egg Sentinels, instead of Eggman himself...

He still hasn't show up yet, that why I think he will only pilot the final mech.

It's a bit early to be jumping to that conclusion, don't you think? We don't know if the Sentinels are even going to show up outside of Crisis Amsterdam, let alone if they're going to be bosses.

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5 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

It's a bit early to be jumping to that conclusion, don't you think? We don't know if the Sentinels are even going to show up outside of Crisis Amsterdam, let alone if they're going to be bosses.

Is all just speculation.

I just think this time Eggman will show his menacing side even more. Lost World did a great job with that.

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I'm totally down for an Eggman that's eccentric, yet threatening, if it's convincing, but Mike Pollack isn't Damien Clarke, known for voicing both extremes (Cell from Dragon Ball, Handsome Jack). I dunno if Pollack is up to the task, but i sure hope so, if that's the take of Eggman we happen to get. 

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blazefan519
14 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I'm totally down for an Eggman that's eccentric, yet threatening, if it's convincing, but Mike Pollack isn't Damien Clarke, known for voicing both extremes (Cell from Dragon Ball, Handsome Jack). I dunno if Pollack is up to the task, but i sure hope so, if that's the take of Eggman we happen to get. 

I mean, we are talking about the same Mike Pollack right? Pretty sure he's got this.

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Vertical Snoop [D.K.]

Mike Pollock was doing threatening voices before Sonic Adventure was even a thing. We have nothing to worry about.

And don't you fucking dare say it's only menacing because his Coborlwitz voice isn't as wacky as his Eggman voice because Unleashed is proof enough that he can do Eggman while still sounding angry and threatening.

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That's a relief. 

I'm just so used to him being so goofy and comedic in later games that it's hard to think of him as threatening sometimes. 

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Shaddy Zaphod

I always found Adon to be an over-the-top goofy villain in Berserk anyway, even in the manga.

The outtakes of Mike's performance didn't help:

(by the way, these outtakes are seriously the fucking best thing ever)

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5 hours ago, Azoo said:

2 ) Do not resort to alternate gameplay styles, but do use other characters. I'm sure the biggest reason Sega keeps coming to this decision is simply because they need a way to pad out the game, as well as showcase better the content that they slaved over (only for the boost style to speed past it in 3 seconds). But regardless, no one walks into these games wanting to play different styles, and if they do then they're probably confused as to what kind of game they want to play.

Let me add to this one: Don't make it like Heroes or Adventure where you're forced to play as everybody in order to unlock the last story.  

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