Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[KHCast]

6 minutes ago, Kintor said:

This is a converation abou the hype that surrounds Sonic Forces, the genuine sense of excitment for a new 3D Sonic that hasn't been since in many years now, thanks to the poor reception of Sonic Boom. Discussing how classic Sonic fits into that hype goes a long way to explain why the appearance of classic Sonic shouldn't be used as a reason to try and negate that hype.

Okay but like, why should that effect someone's personal opinion? Nobody is trying to rain on other people's parade. Let those people be hyped sure, but me having a different view is somehow an attack on their hype?

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

Okay but like, why should that effect someone's personal opinion?

Because this is a Sonic Forces discussion thread. It's more then fair to talk about different opinions of classic Sonic and what it can mean for the hype surrounding Sonic Forces. Using the phrase 'classic Sonic' as a negative short-hand to try and negate the hype surrounding Sonic Forces doesn't make sense, given intentions behind Sonic Forces' design as a game.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

You've still got a modern 3D adventure game with a focus on Sonic, the modern Sonic boost-based gameplay is still front and centre. It's modern Sonic that got the first gameplay reveal. Of course, at the same time classic Sonic is also a part of 3D Sonic games thanks to Sonic Generations. You may not aknowledge popular trends but both parts of Sonic Generations were well-received. This is what has informed the core design of Sonic Forces.

No I don't actually. The game is going to be mostly 2D once again as Modern Sonic will transition into 2D during his stages like before and Classic Sonic will be fully 2D as well. If that third gameplay element isn't in 3D then I'm going to be left with something that's only a third 3D at best. 

I know what the core design of Sonic Forces is. I can see it. That's what we're talking about right now. I also know that both parts of Sonic Generations were well-received. That doesn't have anything to do with me though. We're talking about why I personally wasn't hyped after all.  

I liked Sonic Generations for what it was but as far as getting hyped for what it did again? That's not going to happen. I'm just not a big fan of Classic Sonic. It was fine in Generations. I didn't begrudge it being there despite it not being my cup of tea. And I got to increase my fun with it a bit when I got the homing attack but it still wasn't the ideal way I personally like to play Sonic. 

[KHCast]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Because this is a Sonic Forces discussion thread. It's more then fair to talk about different opinions of classic Sonic and what it can mean for the hype surrounding Sonic Forces. Using the phrase 'classic Sonic' as a negative short-hand to try and negate the hype surrounding Sonic Forces doesn't make sense, given intentions behind Sonic Forces' design as a game.

 

9 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Nobody is trying to rain on other people's parade. Let those people be hyped sure, but me having a different view is somehow an attack on their hype?

 

[Kintor]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

No I don't actually. The game is going to be mostly 2D once again as Modern Sonic will transition into 2D during his stages like before and Classic Sonic will be fully 2D as well. If that third gameplay element isn't in 3D then I'm going to be left with something that's only a third 3D at best.

There's nothing for you to claim that the modern Sonic levels will be mostly 2D. After all, all the modern footage seen so far has been of a 3D area. Now granted there will still be some 2D elements, that's how the boost's 2.5D gameplay works. Even so, there is every possibility that Sonic Forces modern stages will have a greater emphasis on 3D content, thanks to the extra power of modern hardware and presumably the new capabilities of the Hedgehog Engine 2. So don't freak out if you see modern Sonic in a 2D section, we'll be getting plenty of 3D platforming just the same.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

4 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Using the phrase 'classic Sonic' as a negative short-hand to try and negate the hype surrounding Sonic Forces doesn't make sense, given intentions behind Sonic Forces' design as a game.

Nobody is trying to "negate hype" for the game. It's people posting their personal opinions and how their personal hype has been negated because of their feelings on specific parts of the game. Just because someone can explain why a game is designed the way it is doesn't mean the other person is going to like it, nor does it excuse any obvious flaws that design may inherently have. This is something everyone should know and understand most of all people who have been discussing this stuff online for years, which I have, and I know you have.

Stop being this weird alarmist and just talk to people like everyone isn't conspiring against Sonic Team or whatever.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

I was honestly pretty surprised by the dislike of Classic being in Forces. Like, NOW I understand why, but at the time I wasn't expecting that reaction.

Just because like, I was at the Sonic party when Forces was announced. People started cheering even louder once he showed up on screen. It was the opposite of what happened here.

But yeah. I've already said my thoughts on him before. He's in, that's not a problem to me, but I'd rather have a Modern Sonic only game. It's as simple as that bada bing bada boom. sorry azoo

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

There's nothing for you to claim that the modern Sonic levels will be mostly 2D. After all, all the modern footage seen so far has been of a 3D area. 

That doesn't really mean anything. Just because all we've seen of Modern Sonic was a short 3D area doesn't mean there won't be a bunch of 2D sections. There's been no level in Boost game-play without a 2D section when they want more platforming.

[Indigo Rush]

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[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Nobody is trying to "negate hype" for the game. It's people posting their personal opinions and how their personal hype has been negated because of their feelings on specific parts of the game. Just because someone can explain why a game is designed the way it is doesn't mean the other person is going to like it, nor does it excuse any obvious flaws that design may inherently have. This is something everyone should know and understand most of all people who have been discussing this stuff online for years, which I have, and I know you have.

Even so there are plenty of instances in this fanbase when conversations just get shut down the moment certain key phrases are mentioned. Things like 'Shadow the Hedgehog (the game)', 'Sonic 4' or even 'Sonic Adventure' all conjure up major recriminations, especially when those apparently negative phrases can be assoicated with a new 3D Sonic game. It would be a shame for 'classic Sonic' to become another one of those negative phrase; classic SOnic is in Sonic Forces and he's going to be a major topic of discussion going forward.

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

That doesn't really mean anything. Just because all we've seen of Modern Sonic was a short 3D area doesn't mean there won't be a bunch of 2D sections. There's been no level in Boost game-play without a 2D section when they want more platforming.

There will undoubtably be 2D sections in the modern stages and frankly it doesn't bother me. I just think that the balance of 3D to 2D sections is going to fall in favour of 3D in the end. Sonic Team is already leading with the 3D footage and that's a good sign if nothing else.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

There's nothing for you to claim that the modern Sonic levels will be mostly 2D. After all, all the modern footage seen so far has been of a 3D area. Now granted there will still be some 2D elements, that's how the boost's 2.5D gameplay works. Even so, there is every possibility that Sonic Forces modern stages will have a greater emphasis on 3D content, thanks to the extra power of modern hardware and presumably the new capabilities of the Hedgehog Engine 2. So don't freak out if you see modern Sonic in a 2D section, we'll be getting plenty of 3D platforming just the same.

I didn't say Modern Sonic levels will be mostly 2D. I said the game itself will.

And I know all that about the 2.5D gameplay. That's exactly my point. I don't like it and I don't want the 2D to be there at all. The fact that it's there contributes to reduced hype for me. Because I don't like it. 

[The Deleter]

9 minutes ago, Kintor said:

There's nothing for you to claim that the modern Sonic levels will be mostly 2D. After all, all the modern footage seen so far has been of a 3D area. Now granted there will still be some 2D elements, that's how the boost's 2.5D gameplay works. Even so, there is every possibility that Sonic Forces modern stages will have a greater emphasis on 3D content, thanks to the extra power of modern hardware and presumably the new capabilities of the Hedgehog Engine 2. So don't freak out if you see modern Sonic in a 2D section, we'll be getting plenty of 3D platforming just the same.

Actually, there is.

Quote

But in terms of what Sonic actually did in this busy world, watching Modern Sonic speed his way through town felt instantly familiar, for better and for worse. Forces certainly falls into the lineage of Sonic Colors and Generations. The camera smoothly transitioned between a behind-the-back, 3D viewpoint to a sidescrolling 2D plane. And as any good Sonic level should have, I was shown alternate paths through the world that promise verticality and worthy reasons to replay and achieve higher letter rankings on each level.

Note how alternate paths only come up when the game's shifts to 2D. The director of the game, ‎Morio Kishimoto, also made the level design of Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World.

I've repeated myself on the matter a fair bit, though, so that's all imma say about it for now. Just thought I'd reiterate for this specifically.

[Kintor]

2 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Actually, there is.

There's no problem here. We've know since day one that the modern stages would have 2D sections. But to assumre that the balance would be out of whack compared to Sonic Generations is infering too much. The modern stages of Sonic Forces are being showcased with the 3D sections, they will form the majority of the modern levels as was the case with Sonic Generations.

[Nepenthe]

Let's stop appealing to popularity.

Literally no one in this thread has said Classic Sonic is unpopular.

People have said Classic Sonic is a dumb idea to be in Forces for any number of reasons.

The fact that he's popular is irrelevant to the conversation, because demographics and populations can be wrong or like dumb things.

 

 

[KHCast]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

There's no problem here. We've know since day one that the modern stages would have 2D sections. But to assumre that the balance would be out of whack compared to Sonic Generations is infering too much. The modern stages of Sonic Forces are being showcased with the 3D sections, they will form the majority of the modern levels as was the case with Sonic Generations.

Well when this style has 3 times out of 4 been imbalanced in 2D vs 3D I think it's a fair assumption 

[Zaysho]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

There's no problem here. We've know since day one that the modern stages would have 2D sections. But to assumre that the balance would be out of whack compared to Sonic Generations is infering too much. The modern stages of Sonic Forces are being showcased with the 3D sections, they will form the majority of the modern levels as was the case with Sonic Generations.

How can you say people are assuming too much about how the levels will play out while being so confident to proclaim your own assumption about how they will?

People are looking at precedence, here. Because we don't have anything telling us otherwise currently.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

Let's stop appealing to popularity.

Literally no one in this thread has said Classic Sonic is unpopular.

People have said Classic Sonic is a dumb idea to be in Forces for any number of reasons.

The fact that he's popular is irrelevant to the conversation, because demographics and populations can be wrong or like dumb things.

This isn't an appeal to popularity, it's an explanation of how Sega works as a business. The idea being that successful ideas make Sega money and give then an incentive to include those ideas in future Sonic games. This is why we won't be seeing any more of Lost World but we are getting a spiritual successor to Sonic Generations. The presence of classic Sonic was a part of Sonic Generations success, it's a smart move for Sega to include him again now with Sonic Forces.

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Kintor said:

The modern stages of Sonic Forces are being showcased with the 3D sections, they will form the majority of the modern levels as was the case with Sonic Generations.

The one modern stage is being showcased with a...a very short and straight-forward 3D section with nothing to it but homing attack chains. That doesn't say anything positive.

[Nepenthe]

How Sega works as a business has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not any individual likes their game design ideas.

[KHCast]

4 minutes ago, Kintor said:

This isn't an appeal to popularity, it's an explanation of how Sega works as a business. The idea being that successful ideas make Sega money and give then an incentive to include those ideas in future Sonic games. This is why we won't be seeing any more of Lost World but we are getting a spiritual successor to Sonic Generations. The presence of classic Sonic was a part of Sonic Generations success, it's a smart move for Sega to include him again now with Sonic Forces.

We could be seeing more of LW's style in some form down the line(the parkour idea I could see return, albeit more polished), don't see why you're so confident we'll never see it again when I don't think it's been officially stated as dead.

[Indigo Rush]

I swear I will pistol-whip the next person that brings up Lost World and Boom.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Nepenthe said:

How Sega works as a business has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not any individual likes their game design ideas.

Yet we can still discuss why these game ideas exist and for that matter continue to exist. The popularity of Sonic Generations, including classic Sonic, has lead to this point. You can probably assume that after Sonic Forces we'll be seeing classic Sonic again in more 3D Sonic games.

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The one modern stage is being showcased with a...a very short and straight-forward 3D section with nothing to it but homing attack chains. That doesn't say anything positive.

As samples go we still have a 3D section taking pride of place. This is why it's a postive sign, to show the emphasis on 3D gameplay that will be a part of Sonic Forces' modern stages.

[Indigo Rush]

I can't wait to push the analog stick forward and hold "X". I hope I can press the jump button over and over again.

[The Deleter]

12 minutes ago, Kintor said:

There's no problem here. We've know since day one that the modern stages would have 2D sections. But to assumre that the balance would be out of whack compared to Sonic Generations is infering too much. The modern stages of Sonic Forces are being showcased with the 3D sections, they will form the majority of the modern levels as was the case with Sonic Generations.

This is what Colors' first stage looks like:

This is what Sonic Generations' first stage looks like:

And this is what Unleashed's first stage looks like:

 

Out of all of those, which looked the most similar to Forces' modern gameplay design?

 

Not even gonna add this post to an argument, just asking which one you think looks the closest.

And don't include graphics in the comparison. It's all about the gameplay design. The way the hallways are built and the player travels through them, the challenges in the player's path, etc.

[Nepenthe]

2 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Yet we can still discuss why these game ideas exist and for that matter continue to exist. The popularity of Sonic Generations, including classic Sonic, has lead to this point. You can probably assume that after Sonic Forces we'll be seeing classic Sonic again in more 3D Sonic games.

You can discuss these things, but that's not what people are actually talking about in the first place, so the appeal to popularity is irrelevant as a response or rebuttal. If I'm critiquing Transformers as a piece of art, the fact that it consistently makes $1 billion per installment has fuck all to do with my personal thoughts.