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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


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RictalRose0
11 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

After going through the writing of every game after Black Knight, I think I actually prefer games like Mania now where characters just shut up and do cool things and call it a day.

No that's not exactly an improvement. It's okay for the Classic titles but going from the characters we like not appearing to for them to appear and not only not be playable but also silent? That's even worse. Just hire decent writers instead of Pontaff all the freakin' time.

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9 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

We've heard it before that Forces is for everyone and Mania is for the fans

Well, my mom used to say "you're not everyone", so I guess I'll take just Sonic Mania :V

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Chris Knopps

Wow @Jango...

I'm just falling in love with everybody today.

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Ahhh Forces, you delightfully catastrophic monstrosity of divisive brilliance you.

Joker be d@$ned, I'm starting to think SEGA have that guy pegged by a long shot.

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RictalRose0

It's very simple man. Just make Unleashed 2. Use the hedgehog engine correctly. Now I understand that the reason they use gimmicks is because making a full on Boost game is extremely difficult since it would take a lot of development, hence why they use gimmicks to fill the gaps. But in that case just fill the gaps with gameplay from the other characters. Knuckles, Amy, Tails. Whatever (But have it 3D, no more of this half-assed 2D). It aleast gives the team an excuse to put the characters there. I'm not evena sking for a full 3D boost game. Make a game, use the other characters and have a decent story. They have tons of options avaliable besides Pontaff. I would take even the Boom staff over them or Ian Flynn or whatever. Make a 3D game, use the characters, decent story. Is that too much to ask for?

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Chris Knopps
2 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

It's very simple man. Just make Unleashed 2. Use the hedgehog engine correctly. Now I understand that the reason they use gimmicks is because making a full on Boost game is extremely difficult since it would take a lot of development, hence why they use gimmicks to fill the gaps. But in that case just fill the gaps with gameplay from the other characters. Knuckles, Amy, Tails. Whatever (But have it 3D, no more of this half-assed 2D). It aleast gives the team an excuse to put the characters there. I'm not evena sking for a full 3D boost game. Make a game, use the other characters and have a decent story. They have tons of options avaliable besides Pontaff. I would take even the Boom staff over them or Ian Flynn or whatever. Make a 3D game, use the characters, decent story. Is that too much to ask for?

Boost Games

+

Ever Shrinking Budget

=

...Well...

They just don't go hand in hand.

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Detective Kaito
Just now, RictalRose0 said:

It's very simple man. Just make Unleashed 2. Use the hedgehog engine correctly. Now I understand that the reason they use gimmicks is because making a full on Boost game is extremely difficult since it would take a lot of development, hence why they use gimmicks to fill the gaps. But in that case just fill the gaps with gameplay from the other characters. Knuckles, Amy, Tails. Whatever (But have it 3D, no more of this half-assed 2D). It aleast gives the team an excuse to put the characters there. I'm not evena sking for a full 3D boost game. Make a game, use the other characters and have a decent story. They have tons of options avaliable besides Pontaff. I would take even the Boom staff over them or Ian Flynn or whatever. Make a 3D game, use the characters, decent story. Is that too much to ask for?

I think that's almost what everyone wants at this point. Sega knows we want other playable characters, but they just don't want to make them playable in the main Sonic games, for some reason. That's why the other characters are playable in spin-offs.

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Chris Knopps
2 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I think that's almost what everyone wants at this point. Sega knows we want other playable characters, but they just don't want to make them playable in the main Sonic games, for some reason. That's why the other characters are playable in spin-offs.

Maybe it's a Paper Mario kind of thing.

"Hey, we have Mario and Luigi for plot depth and new characters, why bother in Paper Mario?"

"Hey, we have these spin-off/mobile games featuring Sonic with these characters, so why should we bother in this series?"

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On 2017-5-8 at 0:38 PM, Joseph Mello said:

 

(ignore this quote here, I don't know how to take it off)

Hmmm... I wonder how our avatar will participate in the story. Is (s)he going to talk, or is (s)he going to be mute like Classic Sonic? If (s)he does talk, we'll select what voice will (s)he have? And how in the world eggman managed to conquer the world with this character, since they said the new character is going to have a 'key' point in the story? 

Oh, and, well, I guess I'm the only person in this forum who really liked what has been shown. The New Character being customizable is already a huge positive point for me.

Thanks god the game is not going to be just another Sonic game using just the turbo and the spin dash. I miss playing with the existing characters, of course. My favorite game of all is Sonic Heroes, so of course I miss playing with them.

But I miss much more alternative ways of playing other than Sonic (Modern and Classic). Having the possibility of being able to play with another character in the game, even if it's a new one, was enough to me to really like Forces.

And, oh. The scenes with the fixing hook seemed rather fun, and knowing that the flamethrower is just one of the weapons that we will be able to select among many others, is another plus point for me.

 

 

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RictalRose0
8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Boost Games

+

Ever Shrinking Budget

=

...Well...

They just don't go hand in hand.

That's why I said they can fill the gaps with other characters instead of say, a gimmick like the Werehog. Knuckle's treasure hunting + Brawling. Amy could be a more advanced plataformer since she's not as fast and her special abilities are jumps and acrobatics. I don't know. They have tons of characters and ideas they could use. I'm aware a full Boost game is just way too expensive. So fill the gaps with the other characters. It would help to make the story not feel over satured with Sonic.

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Making other characters into the filler gameplay that is so often derided does not sound like a good solution to this series' problems.

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RictalRose0
9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

"Hey, we have these spin-off/mobile games featuring Sonic with these characters, so why should we bother in this series?"

But Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi RPG are full games and have an actual story mode. Well Nintendo kinda killed that in Paper Mario but you get the idea.

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RictalRose0
6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Making other characters into the filler gameplay that is so often derided does not sound like a good solution to this series' problems.

What's wrong with the gameplay of the other characters in Adventure 1+2? Knuckles is fun, so is Tails and Amy. I'm no fan of the mecha shooting game on SA2 but I did enjoy Rouge/Knuckle's gameplay. Filler is okay if it's fun. It's just that the Werehog wasn't very fun. He was just... slow. Compare that to Knuckles who actually glides around and is a lot faster that the Werehog. 

Like, the werehog can't even Jump. Even Gamma was more fast that him. Even the Mech was faster! People don't mind the alternate playstyles if you don't make them painfully slow. 

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RictalRose0
22 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I think that's almost what everyone wants at this point. Sega knows we want other playable characters, but they just don't want to make them playable in the main Sonic games, for some reason. That's why the other characters are playable in spin-offs.

Yeah but they pretty much cancelled Boom so what spin-offs now? Phone games? Are we ever gonna actually see characters like Shadow, Blaze or Amy ever be back and playable and relevant? Cause so far it just seems like Sonic and Classic are allowed to do that.

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2 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

What's wrong with the gameplay of the other characters in Adventure 1+2?

Man what isn't.

2 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Filler is okay if it's fun. It's just that the Werehog wasn't very fun. He was just... slow. Compare that to Knuckles who actually glides around and is a lot faster that the Werehog. 

They're all slow. Well, maybe not SA Tails, but he utterly breaks levels to the point you can't call it a balanced gameplay style so that's no good either. Treasure hunting is a lot of gliding and climbing and running in circles trying to zero in on your targets, the mechs were slow and clunky (and Gamma not all that much better), Amy was slow and intentionally "puzzle-y", and the problems with Big go without saying. None of this is what people generally want out of Sonic, it's all going to feel like the filler padding out the "real" game just like the werehog, because they're really the same thing.

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Snowragnarok
3 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Yeah but they pretty much cancelled Boom so what spin-offs now? Phone games? Are we ever gonna actually see characters like Shadow, Blaze or Amy ever be back and playable and relevant? Cause so far it just seems like Sonic and Classic are allowed to do that.

Mania (but then again Taxman apparently finds newer characters unnecessary). The Olympic series if it's still being prolonged by contracts.  And All-Stars once it returns. 

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RictalRose0
1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Man what isn't.

They're all slow. Well, maybe not SA Tails, but he utterly breaks levels to the point you can't call it a balanced gameplay style so that's no good either. Treasure hunting is a lot of gliding and climbing and running in circles trying to zero in on your targets, the mechs were slow and clunky (and Gamma not all that much better), Amy was slow and intentionally "puzzle-y", and the problems with Big go without saying. None of this is what people generally want out of Sonic, it's all going to feel like the filler padding out the "real" game just like the werehog, because they're really the same thing.

People don't want to just see see Sonic only either you know? Ideally Sonic Advance but in 3D would be the way to go, but since we know a full Boost game with the Hedgehog engine is too expensive, i'm willing to make a comprise. And honestly the adventure characters weren't so slow. And people enjoyed them. Or at least the stories that came with them. Not everyone likes Gamma's gameplay but a lot of people agree his story was great. 

3 minutes ago, Miru the Living Planet said:

Mania (but then again Taxman apparently finds newer characters unnecessary). The Olympic series if it's still being prolonged by contracts.  And All-Stars once it returns. 

Didn't he make a fangame with Shadow on it once? 

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Tracker_TD
Just now, RictalRose0 said:

People don't want to just see see Sonic only either you know?

I'd much prefer more than just Sonic, but only if it doesn't suck. Else hell yeah, I'll take Solo Sonica all day erry day. 

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Snowragnarok
1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

People don't want to just see see Sonic only either you know? Ideally Sonic Advance but in 3D would be the way to go, but since we know a full Boost game with the Hedgehog engine is too expensive, i'm willing to make a comprise. And honestly the adventure characters weren't so slow. And people enjoyed them. Or at least the stories that came with them. Not everyone likes Gamma's gameplay but a lot of people agree his story was great. 

Didn't he make a fangame with Shadow on it once? 

1) Agreed!

 

2) Oh, that. Well, I guess Shadow still has a chance, maybe he'll warm up to the others (or be forced to do so from fan demand...) 

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RictalRose0
Just now, Tracker_TD said:

I'd much prefer more than just Sonic, but only if it doesn't suck. Else hell yeah, I'll take Solo Sonica all day erry day. 

Well that's you. Hell I would even take Sonic gameplay alone if the other characters participated in the story. And really, what's so hard of just having Shadow or Blaze on it? They are basically Sonic clones in gameplay, but more interesing in personality and design.

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Writer's Blah
7 minutes ago, The Matticus said:

If past games implemented a CaC system and succeeded, let Sonic Team have a chance here. Hell, atleast wait until the game comes out and play it for 5 gattdamn minutes before you lose your shite and "leave the fanbase". 

I'll agree that this certainly isn't what Sonic needed and, yes, the rest of the cast could've been given a chance to shine in it's place. Yes, I have concerns. Especially since the Character Gameplay looks very "Boom",  but I'll not damn the game because of a feature I haven't even had a chance to try yet. Seriously, the whole CaC thing seems like a neat and fun addition that I'm dying to get my hands on and see what I can pull off in terms of customization

It's not even the fact that we haven't gotten the game yet that has me sweating bullets. I really can't comment on anything gameplay-related, because all we've seen thus far is just stuff specifically chosen to look pretty for the trailers. It could be great for all I know (although something that bugs me about Buddy's gameplay is that pause he does when he's taking out his grappling hook. It looks REALLY flow-breaking and not fun at all.) but that's not even the main issue.

As has been reiterated over and over in this thread and beyond, Sonic Forces is looking to become the most confused Sonic game ever. You have boost gameplay with ShTH-level edge, classic gameplay with non-accurate physics and music that sounds like a parody of what Genesis music sounded like, and a literal OC with gadgets who plays a "key" part in the story. Sonic has always been a franchise that has spitballed different tones, ideas, gameplay styles, characters, you name it. What people want is unity. This is the exact opposite of that, cramming every little thing the franchise has ever thematically had into one game, and it looks like a hot mess.

Funnily enough, the one thing NOT represented in this game is SA1/SA2/06-style gameplay, which is what I've wanted since Colors came out and reinforced the boost formula. Dreamcast-era fans are continually being given the shaft, and I'm not sure whether to be relieved or offended that SEGA didn't even bother trying to recreate that gameplay style, all "Dreamcast Sonic IS Modern Sonic" jokes aside.

19 minutes ago, The Matticus said:

I still love you guys, though. <3

Yeah, well damn you for making me obligated to not feel angry at you now. This dysfunctional family loves you too.

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Just now, RictalRose0 said:

People don't want to just see see Sonic only either you know?

Yes, I have heard the constant wailing about it. But I'm not saying we should never have other characters be playable. I'm saying this "compromise" is only going to lead to a worse game on top of driving up hatred for these characters from people who aren't already fans of them and who don't want to bother with slow filler gameplay to get to the parts that actually feel like a Sonic game. And when that builds up enough, you're going to lose those characters again.

The series needs to ditch the boost, figure out a style of gameplay that's fun, solidly designed, can actually support a game on its own, and allows for other characters to participate.

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Adding up to the real life discussion. 3 friend of mine literally called me and said "Hey have you seen the new trailer? Wtf is up with this game?". They're not really Sonic fans but they don't seem to like it, and I made them play Generations and they loved it.

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So gonna echoe what @Blue Blood said. Why is it fine to get excited and declare hype based on what we've seen, but not the opposite based on what has been presented? The point of a trailer is to sell the consumer on it. I don't get how there's somehow arguments eating around that point regarding people being annoyed at others not liking something 

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Two kids at my school thought it was a great idea and that CAC's would work out fine. Another friend of mine and I thought thi would be a horrible idea, then we imagined what the DevienArt side of the Sonic Fanbase would do with it

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StaticMania

Who cares about what some DAs would do with the character creator? It doesn't seem that important.

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