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Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

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33 minutes ago, Scar said:

This is the most important factor. Are Sonic Team actually proud of their achievement? In a weird twisted sort of way, I hope they're not. I hope that deep down inside they're looking at Sonic Mania and the love put into it and the love its receiving and are wondering what the hell they're doing.

Mania might be Sonic Team's best friend at the end of this. It might be the catalyst for change. When they play the game, and talk to the development team (which I hope to fuck happens) and get an idea as to the amount of love Taxman and his team have for the franchise and how they're pouring that love into this little game, I hope they get some kind of spark that helps them take the franchise in a much needed new direction.

Please. I hope that all that talk from Mr. Sega CEO man wasn't just talk. Sonic even after all this time is still SEGA's flagship and at one time was synonymous with their entire brand image. I fucking hope they treat that fact with some goddamn respect.

No you see, the hyperbolic hatred of Sonic's extended cast from Critics seems to outweigh fan desire to play them again. Yet somehow, fan desire to create an original character and have them be playable is significant enough to put into a fucking game. Incredible logic.

I appreciate the fact that they care about critical reception now, but fuck they're recognising it in exactly the wrong way.

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God bless it and all it does for everyone.

I do wonder one thing though...

IF this third game play WAS supposed to be BOOM Sonic at first, is it possible it may have seemed more well thought out and/or focused if it had remained a focus on that version of Sonic instead of all the customizing and weaponization stuff?

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One thing that needs criticism is how dull the rings look this time around. Compare them to the gorgeous, shiny rings of Generations and they just look like plastic. Kind of a minor point overall but I noticed it right away. 

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1 hour ago, Nepenthe said:

Occam's Razor tells me that the people who really wanted this in the games as a necessity are a statistical minority, and that Sega put it in to pander completely of their own volition because why the fuck not? Not like you losers wanted to play as Tails or Knuckles.

Ehh, I think you might be looking at it a bit too... in depth.

Rather than looking for the evidence of some kind of demand for a CaC specifically, by simply taking a step back and looking at the community as a whole, there are four or five things that tend to stand out across the spectrum. Sonic is a very interactive community that has always been saturated with artists, writers and fan created content. It doesn't take a very detailed analysis, and it shouldn't provoke any rebuttal to say that original characters are extremely prevalent in this landscape. They are everywhere. I'm pretty sure you can see Cinos the Hedgehog from the international space station.

If you want to apply Occam's Razor, couldn't you just say that the CaC was born out of the will to cater to that obvious facet of the fanbase? I can't say that I've seen any real following for a create a character system in the past, but a simple look at the fanbase over the last 15 or so years should tell you all you need to know about why someone somewhere thought this would be a good idea now.

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27 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I do wonder one thing though...

IF this third game play WAS supposed to be BOOM Sonic at first, is it possible it may have seemed more well thought out and/or focused if it had remained a focus on that version of Sonic instead of all the customizing and weaponization stuff?

Who can say at this point? It may have led a little more credence to the "uniting all parts of the fanbase" idea, but even then, it probably still would have looked like a mess. The gameplay wouldn't be any different, minus maybe some stuff involving the gadgets, but that's not scratching the surface of the issues this game is facing. It really does feel like a parody of the Sonic franchise, rather than a genuine product. I'm actually quite tempted to make a thread regarding Sonic Team's inability to figure out the root of these problems on their own. Is it really that difficult for them to parse through? Is there some unknown factor limiting what they can do in a given game? Why do fans like Mania's dev team have a better understanding of Sonic's core appeal than SEGA themselves do?

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Just now, Sega DogTagz said:

If you want to apply Occam's Razor, couldn't you just say that the CaC was born out of the will to cater to that obvious facet of the fanbase? 

xP I mean, that's why I said they did it because "why not?"

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2 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

xP I mean, that's why I said they did it because "why not?"

I'd consider that less of a "why not" and more of them marking a specific target demographic.... but hey I'm good with that :lol:

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Here's something interesting. Ben Moore of EA said the character creator was first shown off and playable at GDC, but that he and many others have been under embargo since then. 

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9 minutes ago, Writer's Blah said:

Who can say at this point? It may have led a little more credence to the "uniting all parts of the fanbase" idea, but even then, it probably still would have looked like a mess. The gameplay wouldn't be any different, minus maybe some stuff involving the gadgets, but that's not scratching the surface of the issues this game is facing. It really does feel like a parody of the Sonic franchise, rather than a genuine product. I'm actually quite tempted to make a thread regarding Sonic Team's inability to figure out the root of these problems on their own. Is it really that difficult for them to parse through? Is there some unknown factor limiting what they can do in a given game? Why do fans like Mania's dev team have a better understanding of Sonic's core appeal than SEGA themselves do?

Here's the gist I believe...

Sonic Team basically got put behind walls after they merged everything into the East.

Because of this, it was pretty much impossible to garner any worthwhile response to the games from consumers.

And now, Iizuka moved back to the West to try and rectify this problem.

And that's possibly why Forces is the way it is, because they may have been half way through the game before they started having a chance to incorporate what Iizuka was learning and wanted in the title.

In the Mania game it's full of folks working that have been swamped in Western culture and demands, consistently in communities and such, hence their product.

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3 hours ago, Jango said:

This game is most specially aimed at kids, rather than being for all ages.

 

Hasn't that been literally every sonic game ever tho....? 

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This game is most specially aimed at kids, rather than being for all ages.

 

Hasn't that been literally every sonic game ever tho....? 

 

Technically, yes, but ever since Sonic Colors, save for Sonic 4 I guess, all games were mostly aimed at younger audiences, which was reflected in the way Sonic speaks, the story itself (which got sillier with each new game) and even gameplay (easier, shorter games).

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The classic games while having the kid demographic as their main focus, still even then felt like they were marketed at all ages and not just preteens & under. I do feel there has been a slight age market shift overtime.

Back on Sonic Forces. I think while the OC Maker on this game may be fun for casual players and or people just goofing around. But for anybody who'd want something more detailed they'll be disappointed quickly without modding the PC version, because it likely won't match up to even mid-level OC creation possibilities... Stuff like if you want to make a Shark OC on this game you'll be out of luck with it's limiting 7 animal options. We don't even know yet if we can have basic stuff such as different hair styles.

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Well, Sonic characters don't actually have hair...so that's to be expected.

 

Eggman does have hair, but he's human-ish.

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7 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Well, Sonic characters don't actually have hair...so that's to be expected.

 

Eggman does have hair, but he's human-ish.

Take a look at Sticks. Look at how every canon hedgehog character spike hair style is different from each other... And many fan OCs with hair.

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1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

I wager it's because most of the people who originally made Sonic huffed off and left after being told they can't make original stuff like Billy Hatcher and NiGHTS anymore.

Naka, Yasuhara and Oshima are gone. The majority of Sonic Team are either fuddie duddies who did object placement and are now leadership with no major input beyond "make this" or new young adults who remember playing Sonic on the Mega Drive but may not know or care much about how Sonic original controlled. 

That hurts in so many ways...

Yet is funny in so many ways...

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I'm conflicted on this one.

I want to add to it, but it's a comment that leaves you asking what would be the point in doing so since it says so much with so little...

You're either mad or brilliant... Both? Is there a difference?

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8 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Take a look at Sticks. Look at how every canon hedgehog character spike hair style is different from each other... And many fan OCs with hair.

Aye, I forgot about Cream's mother...Vanilla. She has hair, welp, there goes whatever I was trying to say.

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11 hours ago, Sonikko said:

On the topic of automation and level design, I decided to put my thoughts out in a video, so that it's backed up by visual clues. Check it out if you want 

I've expressed these points before in this topic, but I think it makes more sense to pair those words with a video. Sorry about the bad pronunciation!

Edit: Added some subtitles because I'm not sure my pronunciation is clear enough.

Was worried that this video would be redundant and just talk about stuff we already know, but you managed to bring up some stuff that wasn't immidiately apparent and presented it with a lot of confidence. Great job I say!

...and by worried I meant it wasn't Sonic Spitball...

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You know what I think...?

I think Classic Sonic has a Run Button in Forces...

Just based on how he looks when jumping around platform sections.

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So far it looks like the Custom Hero is playing in remixed Modern Sonic levels... I'd assume if so that means it'll play in both remixed Modern & Classic Sonic levels. But I wonder if that means it won't have any levels fully to itself?

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9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

You know what I think...?

I think Classic Sonic has a Run Button in Forces...

Just based on how he looks when jumping around platform sections.

Nothing about the way classic Sonic moves in Forces suggests any difference from Generations whatsoever. If he had a run button, he'd always be running. The simple fact that he accelerates from a walk to a run is proof against you

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1 minute ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Nothing about the way classic Sonic moves in Forces suggests any difference from Generations whatsoever. If he had a run button, he'd always be running. The simple fact that he accelerates from a walk to a run is proof against you

He moves much more like Sonic did in Lost World when you think about it, so it's possible.

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Well except...it's not possible...because he doesn't move like Lost World Sonic at all.

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2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Well except...it's not possible...because he doesn't move like Lost World Sonic at all.

Based on how he slows down so badly after hitting boosts and how his jumping seems much more Lost World esque as well, yes indeed he does.

His top speed is very reminiscent too, certainly slower compared to Generations from what I can tell.

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His jumps are exactly the same as in Generations, so no, no he doesn't. The top speed is way faster than Lost World, and also doesn't really slow down after boosts at all.

Do you need a refresher on the gameplay or something?

Classic's physics are $100% the same as in Generations. You can pass a lot of things off under "wait and see", believe me I've done so, but what can obviously be proven wrong isn't one of them.

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