Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, JezMM said:

On the subject of Park Avenue, I kinda wish the stage name was the other way round: Avenue Park.  Sounds more like the name of a fictional city, as if this was once a place so beautiful they decided to name it as a park made of avenues.  "Park Avenue" just sounds like the name of a single street, which the stage clearly isn't.

 

(Granted I feel like Station Square in SA1 was only ever meant to refer to the particular area of the city where the adventure field is set, but it kinda retroactively became the name of the entire city in external media lol).

My problem is the lack of creativity no matter which order you put the words.

[JezMM]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

My problem is the lack of creativity no matter which order you put the words.

It's unique sounding in the series as a whole, I'm fine with it.  I'm usually down for most zone names that use a word that hasn't been used before, and "Avenue" has a nice flair to it.  "Burning City" would be an uncreative name.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

There are many streets in the real world that are well over 100 miles long. One of which is Yonge Street, Canada, which goes for over 1000 miles. It ends up in Toronto. 

[Indigo Rush]

40 minutes ago, JezMM said:

"Park Avenue" just sounds like the name of a single street, which the stage clearly isn't.

Well given the gameplay, it certainly feels like you're walking on a single street. 

 

 

 

Ga-h'yuck

[FriendBot]

6 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

There are many streets in the real world that are well over 100 miles long. One of which is Yonge Street, Canada, which goes for over 1000 miles. It ends up in Toronto. 

As someone who lives in the Toronto area, this is true.

And sweet mother of bee jesus, reading this thread was certainly an experience that's for sure. 

To be fair, I can see both sides of the argument. I can see the positives and negatives about the Custom Hero reveal.

I mean when I first saw it, I didn't know how to feel. It took some time to really take in that I felt more comfortable with the concept. Making your own character that fights off Eggman's forces with the Sonics is a nice idea, gives power to the player and makes them more invested in whatever's going on (in concept atleast, reality is a different story). It kinda does suck that the 7 species you can choose has really minor abilites that don't really change things up a whole lot but I guess Sonic Team didn't want to make each of them radically different but eh, still kinda sucks. The Wispon is an interesting evolution from the Color Powers, helps that you don't go into a form that kills the flow and you just do the ability based on that short gameplay tease at Park Avenue. So yeah, that's pretty cool.

Also really awesome to hear vocal tracks in the stages are returning, that doesn't happen often. I can only recall that happening in Adventure 2, Secret Rings and Rush.

Also Pontac/Graff are back? Well considering I'm in the minority that actually liked Lost World's story in how to mixes both light and dark tones, I'm curious to see how they can work with Forces' story. Although I totally get why people are really disappointed with that, but here's hoping Pontac and Graff are working more closely with Sonic Team to provide a more action-oriented and intense story that can still provide some fun, entertaining moments as well.

I mean, before this announcement, I was really disinterested in Forces. The gameplay tease for Modern Sonic did not seem interesting with the huge amounts of automation and incredibly basic and level design. Classic Sonic really disinterested me with barely any improvements from Generations and it's going to be pretty terrible when you compare it to Mania. I wouldn't be surprised at all if people criticized Classic Sonic in Forces because of how inferior it is to Mania, it's definitely going to be the element that's going to bog the overall game down in my eyes. If Forces just had Modern and the Custom Hero, it would've been a better game but nope. 

Anyways, with this new announcement did made more interested in the game to the point I'm slightly positive towards it. Not super hyped but interested. 

So yeah, will just be waiting to get my hands on Mania!

[Zaysho]

The more I think about the whole Custom Hero/Join the Resistance idea, I have to wonder why SEGA didn't just make this some kind of companion app/mobile game that could have been released in the lead up for Forces or something. I think Nepenthe had listed some examples, but since I'm too lazy to scrub through this thread, but I had a similar thought about an app that would allow you to make a custom character and you could play through smaller mini-games/missions and you could awarded prizes/codes that can be used to unlock extra things in the main game (perhaps things that can be unlocked normally, but the app gives you earlier access to them), allowing the player to "help" the Sonics and their friends in the fight with Eggman without forcing a weird/unwelcome gimmick that doesn't really fit within the context of a mainline Sonic title. Like, I'm not even going to go back to my point that Sonic's allies should have had a playable role (though I will say it bothers me that they put enough thought into how to differentiate the Custom Hero species with unique attributes/abilities and integrating them into the main gameplay, but can't do that for existing characters), I'm still not understanding why this was what anybody at SEGA/Sonic Team thought was needed for this series. As much as I find Classic Sonic to be a crutch for this game, I would at least be down with this game simply being Generations 2, but with a focus on new settings and environments rather than running through old ones for the sake of nostalgia.

[Nepenthe]

.....I would actually use a mobile app that had proper cross-platform features with the main game. Like... bruh. If Sega did it right it could be an awesome little companion and microtransaction machine, although in turn you'd need a main game design structure to support something like that. Maybe randomized quests? Eh; I'll think more about it.

[JezMM]

I feel a companion app - or even an online character creator that gives you a code to type in - would be amazing pre-release.  It'd allow people to make their character in advance and then just get straight on with gameplay when the game comes out.

[Zaysho]

Alright, can we not go off on a tangent about dumb Facebook fangroups or whatever? Thanks.

Just gonna scrub that outta here.

[sonicspeed2017]

Is there anywhere to preorder the game, looks like GameStop hasn't put up their preorders yet for the game. 

[blazefan519]

1 minute ago, sonicspeed2017 said:

Is there anywhere to preorder the game, looks like GameStop hasn't put up their preorders yet for the game. 

They've never mentioned pre-orders, so you'll just have to wait on that one.

[Tails spin]

9 minutes ago, sonicspeed2017 said:

Is there anywhere to preorder the game, looks like GameStop hasn't put up their preorders yet for the game. 

I was just at a game stop and they bag the boxes out for pre-order. 

[blazefan519]

2 minutes ago, Tails spin said:

I was just at a game stop and they bag the boxes out for pre-order. 

Oh, well, guess I was wrong then.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

11 hours ago, Zaysho said:

The more I think about the whole Custom Hero/Join the Resistance idea, I have to wonder why SEGA didn't just make this some kind of companion app/mobile game that could have been released in the lead up for Forces or something.

Because that wouldn't give this game it's own gimmick? Sure as you say some might had preferred it to just be a Generations 2 without anything else added... but well... not really... many would still be uninterested in this game as this topic showed before the custom characters was revealed.... many were in agreement that it just looked like a leveled down version of Generations far as gameplay goes and nothing much more. Back then even I was saying I likely was going to pass on the game and just gonna get Sonic Mania unless something new was revealed about Forces that'd change my mind... I was hoping for 1 or more of the current extended cast being playable.... sigh.

While I think a OC Maker was not a great move because the canon part of this series hasn't been and shouldn't be a self insert series outside of fan made content separate from the official media... Regardless I have to admit I'm now little more interested in this game... well I still don't terribly like the looks for the game, but now I'm at least considering if I'll want the game or not unlike before. Sonic Team knew they needed SOMETHING new to put on this game in order to get people interested in it... And they were right regardless if their choice was a good one or not, because a game that is just Sonic Gens 2 isn't interesting on it's own really.

Personally I don't bother with phone App stuff, console/PC game stuff will always be more interesting to me. Same reason I never agree to the idea that a Chao Gardens spinoff should be made into a phone App game only, I'd want such spinoff games on PC/console myself. I always found the idea that main games should go on consoles and everything else should be tossed off onto phones only as lame. On some places online I even seen people say games with 2D graphics shouldn't be on consoles... Can't say i like or agree with this type of bias opinion on what games some people think deserve to be console games and which ones don't.

[StaticMania]

If a game lacks long-term substance, it's only fair to think it should be on mobile apps stuff.

[Diogenes]

A game shouldn't need a gimmick. People weren't interested in the game because it doesn't look fun, not because there wasn't some shiny new gimmick to it. If they ditched the character creator and put that time towards actually improving the gameplay they had, instead of leaving it basically unchanged or arguably worse, they might've been more successful in keeping Generations fans hyped. And if "more and better Generations" isn't enough to get people interested, just attaching a gimmick to it is still just a bandaid when what they need is to reinvent the core gameplay.

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Because that wouldn't give this game it's own gimmick? Sure as you say some might had preferred it to just be a Generations 2 without anything else added... but well... not really... many would still be uninterested in this game as this topic showed before the custom characters was revealed.... many were in agreement that it just looked like a leveled down version of Generations far as gameplay goes and nothing much more. Back then even I was saying I likely was going to pass on the game and just gonna get Sonic Mania unless something new was revealed about Forces that'd change my mind... I was hoping for 1 or more of the current extended cast being playable.... sigh.

I personally don't think the game really needs any additional gimmick for it to sell well. Mania is just a straight throwback to the original Genesis games with no frills attached. The additions that game does have don't seem intrusive and are far more natural for a Sonic game--a new move for Sonic, little tweaks to how shields interact with the environments, interesting level design not built around automation, a mix of new and old power-ups to aid the characters, etc. It's obviously a quality title that does not need any special gimmicks to carry itself. And that's coming from someone who couldn't give a damn about Mania!

Looking at what Forces is--it is not my ideal Sonic game and I wouldn't be all that happy with Gens 2 either, but I find that preferable to attaching another half-baked idea to a mainline title when they could very well have made an even better game from the foundation they're already on (might as well work with the cards we're dealt). Focusing on new settings, making more interesting levels that better facilitate the two playstyles, and maybe tossing in a new move or, even better, putting in an extra (existing) playable character that fits within certain playstyles (say, Tails for 2D, Shadow for 3D, if we're going with comparable characters). Like, I don't think it needs much to stand out if it's legitimately good and the marketing is more on-point like it was back in the early days of Unleashed, or hell, even like Mania's.

[Sega DogTagz]

5 hours ago, JezMM said:

On the subject of Park Avenue, I kinda wish the stage name was the other way round: Avenue Park.  Sounds more like the name of a fictional city, as if this was once a place so beautiful they decided to name it as a park made of avenues.  "Park Avenue" just sounds like the name of a single street, which the stage clearly isn't.

 

Both ways sound pleasant enough for me, although the name "Park Avenue" could possibly be a set up for the major set-peice for the stage. I can already imagine the road leading up to, and by/across that massive bridge structure in the background playing a significant role toward the end of the stage. The name could be a reference to that specific corridor where you'll bump into Metal Sonic and have to deathrace in a b@sA$$ sequence while one of those Death Egg Robo's destroys chunks of the bridge to impede your progress....  eh a guy can dream.

 

Anyway, Stage names usually fall under a few tropes. They can reference a major location theme of the stage, Like Arid Sands, Grand Metropolis, Tropical Resort, Green Hill or Chemical Plant. They can be a call back to something being done/accomplished in the stage like Final Rush, Jungle Joyride or City Escape or they can be named directly after some exclusive set-peice that can only be found in that specific level, with a few examples being Savannah Citadel, Scrap Brain, BINGO Highway and Terminal City.

There can be all kinds of blurring between the three types of names, but Park Avenue strikes me pretty hard as a "Savannah Citidel" kind of name. I'm thinking one of those particularly long Avenue's is gonna be home to a mini-boss or something.

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

31 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I personally don't think the game really needs any additional gimmick for it to sell well. Mania is just a straight throwback to the original Genesis games with no frills attached. The additions that game does have don't seem intrusive and are far more natural for a Sonic game--a new move for Sonic, little tweaks to how shields interact with the environments, interesting level design not built around automation, a mix of new and old power-ups to aid the characters, etc. It's obviously a quality title that does not need any special gimmicks to carry itself. And that's coming from someone who couldn't give a damn about Mania!

Well part of what helps with that is it's been nearly forever last we had a a true correct classic style Sonic game. As a result it kinda makes it feel new. And while I love Mania... already some people like me feel bit disappointed they didn't include a new character to the playable cast of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles... Amy or Metal-Sonic would had been nice. Furthermore if they make a Sonic Mania 2 and it's the exact same thing except a new set of levels.... then I'll have to to give it a pass unless it adds Amy or something as a playable.

31 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Looking at what Forces is--it is not my ideal Sonic game and I wouldn't be all that happy with Gens 2 either, but I find that preferable to attaching another half-baked idea to a mainline title when they could very well have made an even better game from the foundation they're already on (might as well work with the cards we're dealt). Focusing on new settings, making more interesting levels that better facilitate the two playstyles, and maybe tossing in a new move or, even better, putting in an extra (existing) playable character that fits within certain playstyles (say, Tails for 2D, Shadow for 3D, if we're going with comparable characters). Like, I don't think it needs much to stand out if it's legitimately good and the marketing is more on-point like it was back in the early days of Unleashed, or hell, even like Mania's.

Personally I'd say Blaze for boost gameplay and make Modern Sonic play more like Adventure Sonic or something. Because speaking honestly here, I hate games that have more then a couple multiple characters and they are all guys.

Also we don't know if they didn't include the OC Maker if they would had spent more time on the rest of the game. Maybe they would had just released the game earlier instead of giving the modern and classic levels more work. And I still prefer what Forces is doing compared to the idea of a flat-out Gens 2 with nothing new except story & levels. But maybe that's just me.

[Chris Knopps]

9 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Even if the game had been perfect, I've disagreed with a Generations sequel on contextual grounds for years. It's a game that was obviously made as a celebration of the franchise first and a standalone game second. Just about every decision it makes is inseparable from Sonic's birthday. Which is fine. However, I did not want to see Classic Sonic again. He is only here as an easy crowd pleaser regardless of how much he keeps fucking with the lore and the ability for these games to condense themselves back into a less compartmentalized style. I also didn't want to see the cast relegated to cheerleading fodder for obvious reasons. I'm also tired of seeing Green Hill over and over, particularly since I feel Angel Island's a more interesting place to have recurring anyway. Generations would've been infinitely better in hindsight as a one-off. Now it's about to face that much more scrutiny and retroactive backlash as of Forces' existence.

"For characters to shine most being non-playable is key" - Takashi Iizuka

The quote might be a little off, memory is fuzzy, but that's pretty much his words right there.

[Kintor]

12 hours ago, JezMM said:

I find it interesting that you take the time to tell every single person who didn't want a sequel to Generations in this thread that everyone wanted a sequel to Generations and haven't once thought "hmm... maybe not everyone wanted a sequel to Generations actually".

My post was written in response to the idea that just because it's six years later people's tastes have somehow changed too much to want 'Sonic Generations 2'. To counter that argument I stated the idea that many Sonic fans have the same enthusiasm for Sonic Generations that they did six years ago. Time has no bearing on the situation when there hasn't been a major Sonic game in all that time.

For many gamers Sonic Generations was the last Sonic game they played, with the probably exception of S&SART. This makes Sonic Forces the perfect game to be release in response to this apparent drought of Sonic games, giving people what they want most of all - more Sonic Generations. Here with Sonic Forces we have the well-received gameplay from Sonic Generations plus the character creator, to bring in even more people for the sequel. This is why Sonic Forces is the Sonic game that needed to be made after the success of Sonic Generations.

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, Kintor said:

My post was written in response to the idea that just because it's six years later people's tastes have somehow changed too much to want 'Sonic Generations 2'. To counter that argument I stated the idea that many Sonic fans have the same enthusiasm for Sonic Generations that they did six years ago.

That doesn't actually prove that there aren't people whose opinions have changed.

11 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Time has no bearing on the situation when there hasn't been a major Sonic game in all that time.

People's opinions can still change even if there hadn't been any other Sonic games released. Maybe spending 6 years playing the same game has led to some people being tired of that kind of gameplay?

[Chris Knopps]

@Kintor...

Seen but not heard comes to mind at the moment...

I mean... I guess of course you could ignore me, I have no standing here really...

But... I would take break for a little while...

Iron fists linger in the halls my friend.

2 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Well part of what helps with that is it's been nearly forever last we had a a true correct classic style Sonic game. As a result it kinda makes it feel new. And while I love Mania... already some people like me feel bit disappointed they didn't include a new character to the playable cast of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles... Amy or Metal-Sonic would had been nice. Furthermore if they make a Sonic Mania 2 and it's the exact same thing except a new set of levels.... then I'll have to to give it a pass unless it adds Amy or something as a playable.

Personally I'd say Blaze for boost gameplay and make Modern Sonic play more like Adventure Sonic or something. Because speaking honestly here, I hate games that have more then a couple multiple characters and they are all guys.

Also we don't know if they didn't include the OC Maker if they would had spent more time on the rest of the game. Maybe they would had just released the game earlier instead of giving the modern and classic levels more work. And I still prefer what Forces is doing compared to the idea of a flat-out Gens 2 with nothing new except story & levels. But maybe that's just me.

I dunno... I think the handheld versions of Colors and Gens did KIND of okay in delivering that, especially if you consider the Rush game play itself classic by this point considering its age.

I agree with this. I was really hoping for Classic Amy to be playable. For some reason it's something I've always wanted to try, especially if they made her unique enough to essentially be some hard mode of sorts ala the Advance series.

Given the clear emphasis on the desire from the staff themselves to make a more original title and SEGA making it known this particular game was to celebrate the past, AGAIN, and given the sudden backlash toward all things Green Hill and nostalgia pretty much, I'd say it's a safe bet the title to come after Mania won't be the same in terms of stages to play. Additional characters, not sure...

I don't think the ideas are bad altogether, it's the lack of originality ala Classic in Green Hill and the "Do It Yourself" thing with the custom character instead of the effort to use the OC game play by placing a tech savvy Tails or something in the game instead.

I mean, heck, Shadow is the go-to guy for weapons in this franchise too and his character screams rebel.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

24 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I dunno... I think the handheld versions of Colors and Gens did KIND of okay in delivering that, especially if you consider the Rush game play itself classic by this point considering its age.

I don't know what you mean by this? Those games you listed play and look nothing like the classic Sonic games, AKA Sonic 1,2,3&K and Sonic CD. The closest games we had was the advance games... and those were a long time ago now too.

[Kintor]

27 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

People's opinions can still change even if there hadn't been any other Sonic games released. Maybe spending 6 years playing the same game has led to some people being tired of that kind of gameplay?

Sonic games have always had great replay value. It's to Sonic Generations credit that the game has remained enduringly popular as one of the most well regarded Sonic games in recent years because of its replay value, a situation further helped by the active modding community still focused around Sonic Generations to this day. It's proven to be an important lifeline for the Sonic franchise, given the unpopularity and general inaccessibility of more recent efforts like Sonic Boom and Lost World. Sonic Forces will go a long way towards alleviating the lack of major Sonic games since Sonic Generations. With a bit of luck we won't have to wait another six years before Sonic Generations 3/Sonic Forces 2.