Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Diogenes]

Nothing you said had anything to do with my point.

[Dejimon11]

7 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Sonic games have always had great replay value. It's to Sonic Generations credit that the game has remained enduringly popular as one of the most well regarded Sonic games in recent years because of its replay value, a situation further helped by the active modding community still focused around Sonic Generations to this day. It's proven to be an important lifeline for the Sonic franchise, given the unpopularity and general inaccessibility of more recent efforts like Sonic Boom and Lost World. Sonic Forces will go a long way towards alleviating the lack of major Sonic games since Sonic Generations. With a bit of luck we won't have to wait another six years before Sonic Generations 3/Sonic Forces 2.

So why do you leave out Sonic Colors considering that was well regarded among fans/critics?

[Kintor]

7 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

So why do you leave out Sonic Colors considering that was well regarded among fans/critics?

No particular reason, Sonic Colours has just been outside the frame of reference of this discussion until now. If you want we can talk a bit about Sonic Colours but I don't think it has much to do with Sonic Generations and the six years that have passed since it's launch. Although personally I consider Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations to be a trilogy of sorts in modern Sonic games, with Sonic Generations representing the apex of the style until the announcement of Sonic Forces.

[Chris Knopps]

49 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I don't know what you mean by this? Those games you listed play and look nothing like the classic Sonic games, AKA Sonic 1,2,3&K and Sonic CD. The closest games we had was the advance games... and those were a long time ago now too.

I'm just speaking on what I feel is the closest/best representation of Classic game play in our modern days, and like I said, depending on your views, Rush game play can be considered just as classic considering it essentially began with Sonic Advance 2 as its precursor.

[The Matticus]

You know, I was just thinking..

 

All this bickering about CaC, Classic Sonic, and Gameplay Styles.. you know what I honestly want...?

 

SEGA and Sonic Team to relinquish unto me contROL OF THE CAMERA!

I mean, really.

If I wanna rotate the camera then, gaddamnit, let me rotate the damn camera.

 

Alright.

 

Matticus out. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by The Matticus
Typo :P

[StaticMania]

That's useless...most of the game is in 2D and the 3D Platforming is too straightforward for camera control to  be necessary.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And it would probably be a detriment for such high-speed gameplay--that's usually why racing games don't give you control of the camera, similar to this one.

[Blacklightning]

Racing games don't let you take control of the camera because in the overwhelming majority of cases, there's literally only one direction to go in and the tracks are designed in such a way that the way to go next is generally well communicated to you in the narrow viewpoints you're given. In a sad sort of way the same can be said for modern Sonic games, except replace "well communicated turns" with "we just shove in a row of boost pads on the ground whenever you need to change direction".

I can understand that trying to play with the camera and platform at the same time is kind of finicky, espically when playing on a gamepad, but at the same time there's really no reason to disable camera control completely? If people wanna stop and smell the roses, let them, and if there's some level of exploration or secrets that works in actively having to search for them, then why not? It'd make a change from just designing levels as one long hallway with occasional slight detours.

[Ayliffe]

Honestly the main reason I want camera controls back is for the mods - stuff like the 06 Project was made even more hellish than regular 06 due to the fact that the camera embedded itself in a wall every 10 seconds and you couldn't manually get it out.

Dunno if it's really necessary for the game itself, but for mods it'd be a godsend.

[A_W]

Unleashed HD had camera control, so it's not like it would be unprecedented for a boost game to let you move the camera. I thought it worked really well, actually. In places with fixed cameras, like 2D sections, you could look anywhere within a small radius around Sonic, and you had Adventure/Heroes-style free camera control otherwise, letting you rotate left and right as well as bring the camera closer or further away. It's true that Unleashed's levels were mostly linear and even had invisible walls appear to stop backtracking, but I still found it fun to look in every nook and cranny. Giving the player manual control might also reduce the number of fixed cameras around, and in turn, hopefully reduce the chances of another goddamn Speed Highway glitch happening.

I also wish they'd move back to Unleashed's model for taking damage, where enemies have to attack you for you to take a hit. Not only was it fun to find enemies you could manage to stand on top of by jumping right, but it worked much better with the fact that Sonic doesn't immediately curl up when he jumps anymore. I've lost count of how many times I took damage in Generations because I either jumped up into something and didn't start spinning in time, or I tried landing on an enemy but Sonic uncurled because he was too close to the ground (yet still in the air). Granted, the latter almost only happened when playing as Classic Sonic in 3D with the Unleashed Project, but still... Oh, also, bring back Unleashed's spinning kick and crawling.

I also wanted to address something from like fifty pages back. There was speculation that the presence of a custom character means there won't be any pre-rendered cutscenes, but I don't think the two concepts are incompatible. Fire Emblem: Awakening and Fire Emblem: Fates both have customisable characters and pre-rendered cutscenes. In Awakening, only a few of these cutscenes include the custom character, and they generally do so by either using camera angles that avoid the character's face or using a first-person perspective; in these cutscenes, the character always wears the default Tactician class outfit, a unisex ensemble with a convenient face-obscuring hood for when there's no choice but to have the character's head in the shot. ^{The hood is only ever raised during the pre-rendered cutscenes.} From what little I've played of Fates so far, it handles the custom character the same way.

However, this is not a perfect comparison. The avatar creation systems in Awakening and Fates do allow you to change your character's sex, body build, face and hair, but they also guarantee certain characteristics like skin colour; this is used by one of Awakening's early pre-rendered cutscenes to show your character's bare right arm and the brand it possesses. Sonic Forces comparatively seems to let you customise many more facets of your character, and can't even go the FE: Awakening route because of the ability to choose your own clothing. Thus, I could only see pre-rendered cutscenes featuring your character if they are set in first person, and the camera is very careful to not show any part of your character's body, which probably means your character wouldn't be able to do a whole lot during them.

Alright, that's enough rambling out of me. _{Hopefully some of this was relevant.}

[DarkRula]

Or we save pre-rendered cutscenes for when Hero isn't around. Like say... The extended cast.

I know it's far-fetched, but with this idea of a resistance, I've been thinking on it. The world has been taken over, so why would everyone be together? The Chaotix is in one area, Tails and Knuckles in another, possibly with Amy. Shadow, Rouge, and Omega elsewhere, all of these fighting their own battles. Pre-rendered cutscenes could be used to give a real depth to these battles, kind of like interludes between the Sonic story. That way, they aren't just cheerleaders, actually doing something within this world. But they are also not playable, to save on numerous different styles of play.

 

[Detective Kaito]

Sonic Forces won't get any get any CGI cutscenes, maybe with the exception of the beginning and/or end of the story like Colors and Lost World did. Heck, not even Generations got any CGI.

[Gabz Girl]

Looking through posts on the previous page mentioning Sonic Generations made me go back to the Sonic Forces gameplay footage we have, and I notice more and more that it's like Sonic Team never touched up the gameplay mechanics from Generations. The game seems to play exactly the same as it did almost SIX years ago. To me, that's not on. Games are supposed to improve and change upon every new iteration, so to see only one new gimmick being introduced and then copypasta Modern and Classic Sonic gameplay is...dare I say it, lazy?

Perhaps waiting till E3 for demo previews is a good idea, but I don't see how it can feel different from Generations.

[Detective Kaito]

11 minutes ago, Gabz Girl said:

Looking through posts on the previous page mentioning Sonic Generations made me go back to the Sonic Forces gameplay footage we have, and I notice more and more that it's like Sonic Team never touched up the gameplay mechanics from Generations. The game seems to play exactly the same as it did almost SIX years ago. To me, that's not on. Games are supposed to improve and change upon every new iteration, so to see only one new gimmick being introduced and then copypasta Modern and Classic Sonic gameplay is...dare I say it, lazy?

Perhaps waiting till E3 for demo previews is a good idea, but I don't see how it can feel different from Generations.

Exactly. Everyone is so underwhelmed by the game because the 2 gameplay styles from six years weren't improved. I would even argue that they're worse now, at least for Modern Sonic. The White Wisps are now the boost fuel and to me the feels like a step backwards. And don't get me started on the level designs.

[StaticMania]

3 hours ago, A_W said:

I also wish they'd move back to Unleashed's model for taking damage, where enemies have to attack you for you to take a hit.

This type of damage system doesn't belong in a game where Sonic's invincible 85% of the time and enemies are slow as syrup when it comes to actually attacking.

[LongcrierCat]

You know, I don't like to rag on "Games Journalisms" but whenever the news broke that you can make your own character in this game, they sure were snarky about how Sonic fans sure do make fan characters. 

What I'm failing to see is how this is anywhere near being a problem. You know? Steven Universe is frankly really comfortable with the idea that the fans make Gemsonas and that kids get a real kick out of making their own characters in a thing they happen to like. I mean, fire criticism for how many options there are to make your own character. Be my guest. I'll be sad when I find that it's not robust because things have to look like the style Sega has Uekawa design them in.

But I'm failing to see how OCs being acknowledged in a Sonic game is a bad thing. That's like getting upset that someone is using the custom character maker in Soul Caliber to make M. Bison or Ganondorf. Or that someone is making their Lord of the Rings OC in Skyrim. Are you seeing where I'm getting at here? 

If a Sonic OC is "ew cringy lol" then we've accepted that making fun of kids is cool.... Which it isn't. 

Now however, this game is still looking pretty pants and I don't like the idea that Sega still won't ditch Pontac and Graff or years old gimmicks that are easier explained as power ups in boxes, but the OC creator is a damned highlight for me. I'm ecstatic that kids get to play as their own characters without mockery in this Sonic game. It's like that Steven Universe rhythm game, Soundtrack Attack where you make your own Gem and choose from a template. Kids like that stuff, don't trash it, you humourless heathens. That this is in the game almost gets me excited again for this. Because it looks like an actually fun addition that's more than playing as Sonic but fits in that gameplay style but without Sonic's signature moves. This could even be a stepping stone to finally playing as Sonic's friends again, I'd like to hope. 

So, maybe it's not the worst thing that a Sonic game has an OC creator? Can we be done being awful internet people for a second to appreciate it as acceptance of kids' creativity? I have so many complaints about this game, but the OC is not even one of them. Not by a long shot. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

5 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

You know, I don't like to rag on "Games Journalisms" but whenever the news broke that you can make your own character in this game, they sure were snarky about how Sonic fans sure do make fan characters. 

Links please.

[LongcrierCat]

10 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Links please.

Ooh, sarcasm. That's pleasant. But yeah here. 

I mean come on. What kind of gatekeeping asshole do you have to be to not like the idea of kids having fun with a character creator? It's not like this is anything new now, I know. But come on. 

[Detective Kaito]

With or without the OC creator, Sonic would still be notorious and hated among Critics and Gaming Journalists alike, so Sega's got nothing to lose either way. Mostly.

[Nepenthe]

Where were the gatekeeping claims when kids wanted to arm Shadow with a gun?

[Chris Knopps]

Here's my question for the day...

Sonic Forces...

Will the mod community see any point in doing things with the game since folks are still modding Generations?

By this point haven't fans who are competent enough to mod stuff already used up all their ideas that make use of the Generations game play and style?

Other than the whole "Mod X Character Into This" schtick, what's there really left to do?

[Detective Kaito]

6 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Here's my question for the day...

Sonic Forces...

Will the mod community see any point in doing things with the game since folks are still modding Generations?

By this point haven't fans who are competent enough to mod stuff already used up all their ideas that make use of the Generations game play and style?

Other than the whole "Mod X Character Into This" schtick, what's there really left to do?

 

I think there will be stage mods for the OCs. The OC doesn't seem to have the boost and you can play as him in 3D, so maybe he plays well in SA1 or SA2's stages?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Detective Kaito said:

I think there will be stage mods for the OCs. The OC doesn't seem to have the boost and you can play as him in 3D, so maybe he plays well SA1 or SA2's stages?

Mmm... I suppose.

And with the physics for Classic seeming worse to me personally it would involve mods having to go through the ring-a-ma-row of having to correct the poor programming of the developers all over again as many have done for Generations over the years.

I guess I can see mods putting in the effort to make Sonic Forces : Definitive Edition that corrects automation and physics problems.

[LongcrierCat]

21 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Where were the gatekeeping claims when kids wanted to arm Shadow with a gun?

Making your own character to play as = giving an already established character a gun and making him dark ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this the ultimate hyperbole? Like okay. It's a gimmick, but it's not an offensive one this time. Really. What's wrong here? One was aimed at trying to be cool with teenagers again while this one is leaning younger and is overall more fun for everyone. Really. As far as gimmicks have gone in this franchise, this is pretty bearable even if interestingly different, if predictable, for Sega. 

This isn't even saying that I don't have problems and really want to see this franchise evolve beyond Sonic gets from one point to the other to save animals from Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. But as far as this could go, at least we're seeing new locations and getting into a story that's both relevant to today's political climate (even if by total accident but I doubt that) and is fun because kids get to fight with Sonic. I mean, yeah. The gameplay needs to evolve. We need a Sonic equivalent to Breath of the Wild. But this actually.... is starting to not be all that bad? It's no Mania, that's for sure and that's a disappointment for me on the gameplay. But I can't start to call this game bad now. Just average. Maybe it can be really fun with the whole idea of fighting alongside Sonic at least. 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not proud that this isn't Sonic Utopia: But Official and With More Characters. But as far as Boost games go this isn't the worst we could get. And that's considering I've been tired of the boost games since Generations but saw that game as a good one time thing even if I didn't like it. 

This kind of negativity wears down on people, you know. Even things you don't like can have something neat in them. 

[Sonikko]

22 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Mmm... I suppose.

And with the physics for Classic seeming worse to me personally it would involve mods having to go through the ring-a-ma-row of having to correct the poor programming of the developers all over again as many have done for Generations over the years.

I guess I can see mods putting in the effort to make Sonic Forces : Definitive Edition that corrects automation and physics problems.

Even if you take automation and scripts out of the equation, you're still left with flat level design, if GHZ is anything to go by. There's no point in removing the boostpads if the level was built with scripted sections in mind.

2 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not proud that this isn't Sonic Utopia: But Official and With More Characters. But as far as Boost games go this isn't the worst we could get. And that's considering I've been tired of the boost games since Generations but saw that game as a good one time thing even if I didn't like it. 

This kind of negativity wears down on people, you know. Even things you don't like can have something neat in them. 

I think it is, classic Sonic taking 1/3rd of the game and being worse than Generations (so far), Modern Sonic playing like Colours and the 3rd character being the missions from Generations and Colours just with a furry OC. It's missing the Werehog and you have the complete package imho.