Jump to content
Awoo.

Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"


Badnik Mechanic

Recommended Posts

Sonic's too complicated for your typical level builder game and it's doubtful that SEGA will give the player the full assortment of tools to make a decent level.

  • Thumbs Up 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

All I did was search Sonic Forces and looked in News on Google. Why are you acting like I was hiding something here? What kind of Gamer Gate hive minded mockery of my self worth is this?

Because searching "Sonic Forces character creator" gives radically different results from lots of very different sites than.

Sonic Forces character creation Fan Fic which is what I had to search to get even close to the results you did. And even then the content of said articles completely undermines your claims... so it's more a case of not making yourself look a fool than...

Quote

 

It's like you willingly ignored the part where I told you that critique was fine. I'm no mod, but shit. I expect better behaviour than this from Site Staff. 

Really? Are you making fun of me just out of assumption that I'm on Tumblr or something? Is this the behaviour that's accepted on site these days? Everyone. No. Everyone. No

Never mind. Forget I said anything. See you later, Sonic Fandom. I can't stand this headache you're all giving me. 

 

Are you Silver_hedgie's multi?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't see it as a practical ambition. Granted, neither is a character creator, but here we are.

It doesn't help that the options for the character creator are almost literally skin deep, too. I mean, I guess it's your lucky day if you already happen to want your character to have a grappling hook and an arm cannon, but a lot of character creators aren't in it for just the face and the name, you know? You don't just hand people the keys to a character creator and tell them "you can be creative, but only within these strict guidelines" - they want to be able to mess around with unique skillset builds and shit that cater to their playstyles. If they're not willing to go that far with it, then what's the bloody point? You may as well have stuck to making it an actual canon character instead for all the difference it makes.

I guess when you come right down to it, it's the same problem with the other playstyles so far - they're actively competing with each other for attention, so no single one of them really flourishes. They should've just taken it out and saved it for a spinoff honestly, at least that way it would've gotten the sole focus it needed.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Scar said:

this is pretty funny to think about...nostalgia for a 7/10 game released 6 years ago

Technically 7.8/10, but there was too much Crisis City.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

It doesn't help that the options for the character creator are almost literally skin deep, too. I mean, I guess it's your lucky day if you already happen to want your character to have a grappling hook and an arm cannon, but a lot of character creators aren't in it for just the face and the name, you know? You don't just hand people the keys to a character creator and tell them "you can be creative, but only within these strict guidelines" - they want to be able to mess around with unique skillset builds and shit that cater to their playstyles. If they're not willing to go that far with it, then what's the bloody point? You may as well have stuck to making it an actual canon character instead for all the difference it makes.

I guess when you come right down to it, it's the same problem with the other playstyles so far - they're actively competing with each other for attention, so no single one of them really flourishes. They should've just taken it out and saved it for a spinoff honestly, at least that way it would've gotten the sole focus it needed.

The folks behind Mega Man called, they want to sue for lack of originality. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

It doesn't help that the options for the character creator are almost literally skin deep, too. I mean, I guess it's your lucky day if you already happen to want your character to have a grappling hook and an arm cannon, but a lot of character creators aren't in it for just the face and the name, you know? You don't just hand people the keys to a character creator and tell them "you can be creative, but only within these strict guidelines" - they want to be able to mess around with unique skillset builds and shit that cater to their playstyles. If they're not willing to go that far with it, then what's the bloody point? You may as well have stuck to making it an actual canon character instead for all the difference it makes.

Yet there are actually variants within the character creator's gameplay. The selection of different species for your character will offer different special abilities. These aren't gaming breaking in any way but it's nice to have a little more distinction for those who their characters to stand out a little more in terms of gameplay from the rest. Everyone else though is going to be perfectly happy messing around in the character creator for the kind of Sonic character they want to see on screen.

After all, these purely 'cosmetic' differences are the point of the character creator. It's something that MMORPGs have figured out in recent years, the visual identity of the player's character itself is often just as important as anything purely related to gameplay mechanics. Like how when I used to play World of Warcraft, most of my characters were Blood Elves. I liked the Art Nouveau art style and backstory of the Blood Elves; this strongly factored into my decision more so then any 'racial bonus' gameplay mechanics that were also included.

It's the same thing with Sonic Forces; the character creator itself justifies its own existence without have a major impact on the gameplay mechanics. The opportunity for Sonic fans to have their OCs moving around on screen in Sonic Forces is more than enough, the extra abilities for each species is really only something of a bonus. That's why I think that a lot of DLC for Sonic Forces will probably take the form of more cosmetic features for the character creator; it's going to be an absolute gold mine for Sega.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

The folks behind Mega Man called, they want to sue for lack of originality. lol

MegaMan has a grappling hook?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

MegaMan has a grappling hook?

yeah the thunder claw from 8 but I digress 

Is anybody expecting some online interactions between OCs in some way shape or form besides leader boards? Cause it'll be a missed opportunity if they just limited them to the story mode. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dejimon11 said:

yeah the thunder claw from 8 but I digress 

Is anybody expecting some online interactions between OCs in some way shape or form besides leader boards? Cause it'll be a missed opportunity if they just limited them to the story mode. 

Welp, my bad then.

I'd be down for that. Nearly every game that has a character creator has some online interaction, so it'd be reasonable that this game has one.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Kintor said:

Yet there are actually variants within the character creator's gameplay. The selection of different species for your character will offer different special abilities.

Of which, bar maybe two exceptions, only affect how rings behave.

Mesmerizing.

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

After all, these purely 'cosmetic' differences are the point of the character creator. It's something that MMORPGs have figures out in recent years, the visual identity of the players character itself is often just as important as anything purely related to gameplay mechanics.

I honestly don't disagree, but if even you agree that they're both equally important then surely you must realize there should be some semblance of the latter in the game, like... at all. Even the most basic, garden variety MMO at least lets you pick from a selection of classes with noticably different strengths and responsibilities in a given party - the species bonuses in Forces probably won't affect the way you play the game at all unless you pick the double jump option, and even then, knowing how many of them aren't given mobility bonuses I doubt the level design is built to make special use of it.

9 minutes ago, blazefan519 said:

MegaMan has a grappling hook?

Say hi to the Strike Chain.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

I honestly don't disagree, but if even you agree that they're both equally important then surely you must realize there should be some semblance of the latter in the game, like... at all. Even the most basic, garden variety MMO at least lets you pick from a selection of classes with noticably different strengths and responsibilities in a given party - the species bonuses in Forces probably won't affect the way you play the game at all unless you pick the double jump option, and even then, knowing how many of them aren't given mobility bonuses I doubt the level design is built to make special use of it.

Generally speaking, MMORPGs are very different to a 3D platformer like Sonic Forces. The actual interactive gameplay, even in an 'action RPG' like Phantasy Star Online is quite limited in its scope. This is in part due to network latency, many MMORPG developers believe that lag would make true action combat impossible, the player with the better connection to the server would nearly always win. This incidentally makes it easier for MMORPG developers to customise the gameplay mechanics between each race and class. When in reality, any combat you see on screen in a MMORPG is largely an illusion to disguise Dungeons & Dragons style dice rolling and number crunching.

Sonic Forces doesn't have that luxury because the gameplay on screen isn't an illusion, certainly not in the sterile Dungeons & Dragons sense. Players input, their reflexes and ability to react to a constantly changing situation, will have a greater impact then classes and stat bonuses. As a matter of practicality this means that each species from the character creator must be designed along similar lines, to allow every possible character to properly interact with the levels. It's a necessity to make this happen in a 3D platformer like Sonic Forces and one the playerbase isn't going to begrudge Sonic Team over. The thrill of creating OCs in the character creator remains the primary attraction, irrespective of any slight gameplay differences that may arise as a result of the player's cosmetic choices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Hey man, you were the one who made the comparison, not me. If you didn't think it was appropriate in the first place, then why bring it up? =V

The point is how, contrary to what you're arguing, cosmetic features are the primary purpose of the character creator. The ability to give Sonic fans the chance to create their own OCs in Sonic Forces is the primary appeal of the character creator. Any slight gameplay variants between the species is a nice bonus but never the decisive factor in deciding what character a player would create. This is where the comparison to MMORPGs is relevant, cosmetic character details are now a driving force behind MMORPG economies and the business model as a whole; especially amongst free to play to games.

In turn, this is the kind of enthusiasm that Sonic Forces is tapping into with the character creator, continuing the trend of how character creators are no longer limited to RPGs or MMORPGS. While also drawing upon the tireless energy of the Sonic fanbase that has always been creating OCs in the form of fan art and other creative mediums. Hence, the minor variants in gameplay mechanics with the character creator are largely incidental, as in they don’t have much of an impact on the appeal of the character creator. Most gamers aren’t going to care if one species has slightly different bonuses or no different gameplay mechanics at all, the pure choice of being able to create  an OC at all is what will make Sonic Forces a success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Kintor said:

The point is how, contrary to what you're arguing, cosmetic features are the primary purpose of the character creator. The ability to give Sonic fans the chance to create their own OCs in Sonic Forces is the primary appeal of the character creator. Any slight gameplay variants between the species is a nice bonus but never the decisive factor in deciding what character a player would create. This is where the comparison to MMORPGs is relevant, cosmetic character details are now a driving force behind MMORPG economies and the business model as a whole; especially amongst free to play to games.

 

In turn, this is the kind of enthusiasm that Sonic Forces is tapping into with the character creator, continuing the trend of how character creators are no longer limited to RPGs or MMORPGS. While also drawing upon the tireless energy of the Sonic fanbase that has always been creating OCs in the form of fan art and other creative mediums. Hence, the minor variants in gameplay mechanics with the character creator are largely incidental, as in they don’t have much of an impact on the appeal of the character creator. Most gamers aren’t going to care if one species has slightly different bonuses or no different gameplay mechanics at all, the pure choice of being able to create  an OC at all is what will make Sonic Forces a success.

Then why have the options to even have the different characters have these "special advantages" over the other. Just have a generic looking anthropomorphic animal and call it a day. Really no point into putting whatever they have on character creators anyways. Also we need something besides cosmetics to differentiate all the options because I bet you that even thought you can pick a bear or cat  they will all have the same type of clothes AND that's the reasons why MMORPGS have different classes (using Destiny as an example) and species to choose from, so we, as in the player, can have some form of fun in the game and carious options to choose from.

And by the way I think A LOT of character creators have to some impactful gameplay mechanics to even justify having a character creator in the first place. Not just giving us some big goofy looking glasses and chao coat for looks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Joellui said:

Then why have the options to even have the different characters have these "special advantages" over the other. Just have a generic looking anthropomorphic animal and call it a day. Really no point into putting whatever they have on character creators anyways. Also we need something besides cosmetics to differentiate all the options because I bet you that even thought you can pick a bear or cat  they will all have the same type of clothes AND that's the reasons why MMORPGS have different classes (using Destiny as an example) and species to choose from, so we, as in the player, can have some form of fun in the game and carious options to choose from.

And by the way I think A LOT of character creators have to some impactful gameplay mechanics to even justify having a character creator in the first place. Not just giving us some big goofy looking glasses and chao coat for looks.

Sonic Team just tossed in a random Character Creator feature into their newest product, nothing more, nothing less.

You're not going to get depth out of it. Your not going to get detail, nor' commitment. It's exactly like that they did with Lost World basically. It's just there, it's random, it's happening.

They're not going to go all out with some random idea. It's always awkward when they throw in some new thing out of the blue. It's a feature they thought would be a fun quirk to explore to keep them from being bored developing another Sonic game back-to-back and there you go.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Even if they're a "driving force" (and in that case I kinda have to question what MMOs you've been playing because I've actually seen none of this), none of them do so at the expense of being able to make characters that actually play differently from one another, which is the point you conveniently ignored last time you made this argument. Yet again, even the most basic MMO at least makes the distinction between swordsmen, archers and mages, and most have several subclasses of each, which is much more than what I can say for "this species picks up rings differently". One unique mobility ability per option is not asking much.

Furthermore, thinking about it from a business standpoint is not only a painfully cynical outlook on things, it also kinda depends on the ability of players to mingle with each other and show off their swanky threads to other players ingame, which a platformer like this isn't going to have. It also depends on your ability to pay real money for more, which is a frighteningly scummy thing to do in a platformer of all things.

As I explained to you in my previous post, it's a mistake for you try and compare a MMORPG to a 3D platformer in terms of gameplay and how it relates character creator. No one seriously expects the Holy Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) in Sonic Forces, that kind of multifaceted class system has no purpose in a Sonic game and it's bizarre to try and apply those Dungeons and Dragons staples to a Sonic game. Having a single gameplay style for the character creator levels is more than sufficient, alongside both the classic and modern gameplay from Sonic Generations, to keep things focused. Any slight bonuses in terms of different species is a nice little extra but deliberately isn't a decisive factor in the character creator gameplay. This way no particular species will be accidentally favoured over the others, allowing Sonic fans to create their OCS according to how they want their character to look.

Incidentally, the monetisation of cosmetic features in character creator is no longer regarded as a cynical move, if indeed it ever was. The increasingly popularity of character creation and to even character customisation have changed the dynamics of what people are willing to pay for in a game. There little micro-transactions for extra cosmetic features, from MMORPGs to even the hats in Team Fortress 2, are now an accepted part of how games are being sold today. There's nothing strange about seeing similar ideas being expressed in Sonic Forces. As I've said before, I expect that much of the DLC in Sonic Forces will be specifically to provide additionally cosmetic features for the character creator, which just might make Sonic Forces the most financially successful Sonic game. This is in addition to the significant sales boost the base game of Sonic Forces will get thanks to the extra hype of the character creator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Incidentally, the monetisation of cosmetic features in character creator is no longer regarded as a cynical move, if indeed it ever was. The increasingly popularity of character creation and to even character customisation have changed the dynamics of what people are willing to pay for in a game. There little micro-transactions for extra cosmetic features, from MMORPGs to even the hats in Team Fortress 2, are now an accepted part of how games are being sold today. There's nothing strange about seeing similar ideas being expressed in Sonic Forces. As I've said before, I expect that much of the DLC in Sonic Forces will be specifically to provide additionally cosmetic features for the character creator, which just might make Sonic Forces the most financially successful Sonic game. This is in addition to the significant sales boost the base game of Sonic Forces will get thanks to the extra hype of the character creator.

 
 

Would you yourself buy DLC accessories for the Custom Hero?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Kintor said:

No one seriously expects the Holy Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) in Sonic Forces, that kind of multifaceted class system has no purpose in a Sonic game and it's bizarre to try and apply those Dungeons and Dragons staples to a Sonic game.

You're absolutely right about that - nobody does expect that level of complexity from a Sonic custom character. Do you know what they do expect? Here, I'll repost it for emphasis because you seem to be willingly ignoring it by this stage:

12 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

One unique mobility ability per option is not asking much.

One move. Just one. That's all a Sonic character needs to be able to distinguish themselves from each other. This is not some monumental task to design or balance, compared to the payoff of how differently it makes characters work from each other, and the variety of playstyles just one malleable move can offer. Every great character maker off the top of my head offers some kind of gameplay incentive to design different characters for subsequent playthroughs, and it's honestly baffling that you continue to insist against it as though ring abilities are somehow worth any replay value.

Speaking of wilful ignorance:

9 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Incidentally, the monetisation of cosmetic features in character creator is no longer regarded as a cynical move, if indeed it ever was. The increasingly popularity of character creation and to even character customisation have changed the dynamics of what people are willing to pay for in a game. There little micro-transactions for extra cosmetic features, from MMORPGs to even the hats in Team Fortress 2, are now an accepted part of how games are being sold today.

Without asking, I'm going to hazard a guess as to what these games you're speaking of have in common:

1) They have no base entry fee - you can simply download and play it on the spot, so they immediately need a way of making money to cover the base cost of making it.

2) They're all multiplayer games, so any hats or what have you can be directly shown off to other players while you're killing them.

3) They're all still consistently updated by their own staff, which necessitates a consistent cash flow to keep paying them for it.

How many of these things can be said of Forces? Zero. It's a AAA game, so it'll have a pricetag as such. There's no multiplayer functionality, otherwise they would've announced it by now, so a freemium economy holds no benefit to the player. And while they'll probably patch it post release, and may yet add DLC of some kind, once Sega turns a profit on the base game they ultimately have no need to keep nickel and diming players for aesthetic junk. So yeah, it would be a scummy move, and to be perfectly frank it's really sad to see somebody trying to spin it otherwise.

  • Thumbs Up 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has there even been a custom character creator in a platformer before? It can go with just about anything, but it doesn't sound like something that's already been a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blacklightning said mostly everything I wanted to say. 

But I will add that plenty of payed multiplayer games that do have microtransaction cosmetics still get shit for it, and rightfully so. Overwatch, for example, has a lootbox system that is lucrative, but arguably predatory in nature. TF2's not really any better, but at least that game's free. Unlike Sonic Forces. It's not something that's universally accepted, at any rate. 

IMO the best single player games with character creators also have elements of character building. Souls, Elder Scrolls and RPGs in general are good examples of this. 

  • Thumbs Up 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Solly said:

Blacklightning said mostly everything I wanted to say. 

But I will add that plenty of payed multiplayer games that do have microtransaction cosmetics still get shit for it, and rightfully so. Overwatch, for example, has a lootbox system that is lucrative, but arguably predatory in nature. TF2's not really any better, but at least that game's free. Unlike Sonic Forces. 

...We didn't get DLC for Generations.

You really think we're getting DLC for Forces if they couldn't be arsed to fill in the void that was their anniversary title...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.