Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Multikaris]

58 minutes ago, Celestia said:

On one hand death threats are awful and if anyone reading this took part in that? Fuck you, you pathetic cowards.

On the other hand, I highly doubt they care that much. And really the sort of people to send them death threats over this have probably been harassing them for years anyway, so I can't see this being the final straw in that regard.

Maybe they don't fit with the more serious direction the series seems to be back to taking? And with Mania's lack of dialogue?

[Chris Knopps]

59 minutes ago, Celestia said:

On one hand death threats are awful and if anyone reading this took part in that? Fuck you, you pathetic cowards.

On the other hand, I highly doubt they care that much. And really the sort of people to send them death threats over this have probably been harassing them for years anyway, so I can't see this being the final straw in that regard.

I think the level of harassment at present exceeds that of the past. His revelation of being part of Forces was very...

It was clearly unwanted, put it that way.

I agree on the topic of threats however.

I personally think he would be better writing for Rayman, his style reminds me of Rayman and Rayman 2.

[Celestia]

I guess I could see people being a lot more upset this time around with a few years of uncertainty of the series' future building up to it.  I think others have made this observation before but that does seem to be a major factor in a lot of the reactions to this game, though how it looks even on it's own merits isn't really wowing people either.

Kind of a mess all around, really. It's going to be interesting at the very least to see how things turn out.

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

I guess I could see people being a lot more upset this time around with a few years of uncertainty of the series' future building up to it.  I think others have made this observation before but that does seem to be a major factor in a lot of the reactions to this game, though how it looks even on it's own merits isn't really wowing people either.

Kind of a mess all around, really. It's going to be interesting at the very least to see how things turn out.

I'm speculating Lost World sales numbers presently. It was over 1M at first, then after the writer revelation my expectation lowered.

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm speculating Lost World sales numbers presently. It was over 1M at first, then after the writer revelation my expectation lowered.

Lost World was on the Wii U. I don't think that many people really put that much stock into who's writing or cares to the degree Sonic fans do.

And, who knows, with a different producer and tonal direction Forces seems to be aiming for in comparison to Colors, Generations, and Lost World (though still keeping elements from them, for better or worse), it might influence the way they write the script. Pontac IS actually a competent writer and CAN do action and comedy well (I can't say about Graff but I don't know his work), so maybe there could be a pleasant surprise amid everything Forces does that makes me feel inclined to go buy two copies of Mario Odyssey instead.

[Chris Knopps]

5 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Lost World was on the Wii U. I don't think that many people really put that much stock into who's writing or cares to the degree Sonic fans do.

And, who knows, with a different producer and tonal direction Forces seems to be aiming for in comparison to Colors, Generations, and Lost World (though still keeping elements from them, for better or worse), it might influence the way they write the script. Pontac IS actually a competent writer and CAN do action and comedy well (I can't say about Graff but I don't know his work), so maybe there could be a pleasant surprise amid everything Forces does that makes me feel inclined to go buy two copies of Mario Odyssey instead.

A nice thought, but keep in mind BOOM's sales on the 3DS as well, both Shattered Crystal and Fire and Ice mind you.

I think the scripts are having much more to do with sales than some are realizing.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

A nice thought, but keep in mind BOOM's sales on the 3DS as well, both Shattered Crystal and Rise of Lyric mind you.

Buggy broken game, also in the Wii U for RoL,  so I don't know what the fudge you're taking about there. 

And Shattered Crystal was lame game play wise.

Also RoL didn't even have Pontaff announced as writers, so you're already stretching with that to try and make a point. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Buggy broken game, also in the Wii U for RoL,  so I don't know what the fudge you're taking about there. 

And Shattered Crystal was lame game play wise.

Also RoL didn't even have Pontaff announced as writers do you're already stretching with that too make a point. 

I actually made a mistake and changed my post. I intended to put Fire and Ice.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

I actually made a mistake and changed my post. I intended to put Fire and Ice.

Fire and Ice is a bad example too. That was a game with the burden of being a sequel in the Boom games franchise,  despite the keen reception the show recieves.

Flimsy to suggest that the writers were the driving forces for sales when you factor all that in. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

Fire and Ice is a bad example too. That was a game with the burden of being a sequel in the Boom games franchise,  despite the keen reception the show recieves.

Flimsy to suggest that the writers were the driving forces for sales when you factor all that in. 

Fire and Ice was heralded as a fairly vast improvement game play and design wise compared to Shattered Crystal so I do direct more fault to poor writing as to why the sales of Fire and Ice in particular were so low.

Actually... I enjoyed that game myself, save the plot.

[Zaysho]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

A nice thought, but keep in mind BOOM's sales on the 3DS as well, both Shattered Crystal and Fire and Ice mind you.

I think the scripts are having much more to do with sales than some are realizing.

Did anybody even know they were involved with Fire and Ice until post-release?

Boom, as an entire sub-brand, wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire in the first place.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Yes, Pontaff's return was one of the first anouncements made for Sonic Boom Fire and Ice, together that the level design was going to be improved.
Altough I agree that they probably don't have THAT much of a negative impact on the sales. Maybe some hardcore Sonic fans (Altough I doubt the ones who hate Pontaff were the kind of people to buy a small sidescrolling subgame on the 3ds anyway) but the general audiences probably don't read promotional interviews/ know who those people are/ give a damn.

As for Rise of Lyric, I wasn't aware of Pontaff's involvement, until I just checked.
Story didn't feel very "Pontaffian" so I didn't expect their involvement. Guess the other half a dozen writers diminished their style.
Still, goes to show that their involvement can't be that impactful to the sales, you already need to be specifically looking for them to know.

So, as far as the typical kid/ casual crowd is concerned, Pontaff's involvement matters little.
But it is for the hardcore fans, especailly the ones Forces is trying to please with the darker tone and alleged "adventure feel" of the story.
Just like how it puts in Green Hill Zone and 2d sidescrolling to appease the Classic crowd but then still doesn't include the physics that Classic fans have been screaming and begging about since at least 2010.

Making big gestures to try and win over the Fan crowds but only on a superficial surface level. No wonder everyone is paranoid.
Sonic Team's trying, but do they "Get It"?

[Kintor]

24 minutes ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

So, as far as the typical kid/ casual crowd is concerned, Pontaff's involvement matters little.
But it is for the hardcore fans, especailly the ones Forces is trying to please with the darker tone and alleged "adventure feel" of the story.
Just like how it puts in Green Hill Zone and 2d sidescrolling to appease the Classic crowd but then still doesn't include the physics that Classic fans have been screaming and begging about since at least 2010.

When it comes to the dark tones itself that's really in the hands of Sonic Team and beyond any 'artistic' flourishes that Graff might be inclined to include in the script. We've already seen the dark tone that Sonic Forces offers, through the initially revealed trailer of the modern stages, which was then elaborated upon later when the character creator was revealed. Even the classic stage reimaging of the Green Hill Zone follows that darker tone, more environmental disaster in the making rather than the tropical paradise of the original level. With the suggestion that Graff might only be handling translation of the Japanese script, it looks like Sega is determined to keep a tighter rein on the story this time around.

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Kintor said:

When it comes to the dark tones itself that's really in the hands of Sonic Team and beyond any 'artistic' flourishes that Graff might be inclined to include in the script. We've already seen the dark tone that Sonic Forces offers, through the initially revealed trailer of the modern stages, which was then elaborated upon later when the character creator was revealed. Even the classic stage reimaging of the Green Hill Zone follows that darker tone, more environmental disaster in the making rather than the tropical paradise of the original level. With the suggestion that Graff might only be handling translation of the Japanese script, it looks like Sega is determined to keep a tighter rein on the story this time around.

...Green Hill literally IS STILL A TROPICAL PARADISE in Forces.

It's called an Oasis.

Poor direction is poor direction. It's depressing they didn't go all out with ruining the location.

...Would have been TOO dark I guess, right?

Dead/Dying plants, God forbid.

[Kintor]

18 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

...Green Hill literally IS STILL A TROPICAL PARADISE in Forces.

It's called an Oasis.

Actually, no. This is an oasis:

Notice how the water is static and exists in the ground between the plant life. What we have in Sonic Forces is the complete opposite of an oasis, the water of the Green Hill Zone has been replaced with sand. It's a clear sign that Eggman has been messy with the environmental, either deliberately or accidentally, even if he hasn't managed to incidentally kill all the plants yet.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

Actually, no. This is an oasis:

Notice how the water is static and exists in the ground between the plant life. What we have in Sonic Forces is the complete opposite of an oasis, the water of the Green Hill Zone has been replaced with sand. It's a clear sign that Eggman has been messy with the environmental, either deliberately or accidentally, even if he hasn't managed to incidentally kill all the plants yet.

Eh... Stick up for it if you want.

I still call it an oasis/disappointment.

[Kintor]

13 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Eh... Stick up for it if you want.

I still call it an oasis/disappointment.

Oases don't work that way. More to the point, nature doesn't work that way.

Sonic Forces has literal rivers of sand flowing through the Green Hill Zone. I like the idea honestly, it reminds of surreal environments you might see in something like Sonic CD or Knuckles Chaotix.

[Mark1]

23 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Oases don't work that way. More to the point, nature doesn't work that way.

 

Sonic Forces has literal rivers of sand flowing through the Green Hill Zone. I like the idea honestly, it reminds of surreal environments you might see in something like Sonic CD or Knuckles Chaotix.

Like a modern Bad Future scenario  I'm quite intrigued to see how the rest of the environments are affected by Eggman's takeover. 

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

Like a modern Bad Future scenario  I'm quite intrigued to see how the rest of the environments are affected by Eggman's takeover. 

Forces Green Hill and the Bad Future concept CD did have no comparison. It's way too "safe" to be near CD level.

[Mark1]

29 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Forces Green Hill and the Bad Future concept CD did have no comparison. It's way too "safe" to be near CD level.

Nah not saying they're at the same level here. What I'm keen to see here is other takes of typical Sonic level tropes but with Eggman's takeover ? 

To elaborate my previous paragraph, when not necessarily referring to remixes of older levels like Generations again. More levels like Park Avenue instead

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mark1 said:

Nah not saying they're at the same level here. What I'm keen to see here is other takes of typical Sonic level tropes but with Eggman's takeover ? 

To elaborate my previous paragraph, when not necessarily referring to remixes of older levels like Generations again. More levels like Park Avenue instead

As long as Green Hill is the ONLY old stage coming back in Forces, then I'm happy.

If not...

[Roger_van_der_weide]

2 hours ago, Kintor said:

When it comes to the dark tones itself that's really in the hands of Sonic Team and beyond any 'artistic' flourishes that Graff might be inclined to include in the script.

True, I did state that badly.
None the less, specific Dialogue flourishes can still make or break the tone on top of what's going on.
I remember in Sonic Color's Japanese version, when Sonic and Tails are in the space elevator, their dialogue boils down to
"Eggman doesn't care we're breaking in?
Who could possibly break in who's worse then Eggman himself?"

While in the English version it's more
"Haha, Eggman left the keys in! What a dumbass!"

So just with the dialogue we go from Eggman potentially using burglars for target practise to a bumbling idiot.

But again, don't want to be too alarming with Pontaff, they've gotten better. So we'll see.
But as far as creating trust and confidence in the "We want cooler stories" crowd is concerned, this was a bad move. Now they have to work hard to prove the skeptics wrong.

[Mark1]

3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

As long as Green Hill is the ONLY old stage coming back in Forces, then I'm happy.

I personally suspect we'll see a mixture of new and remixed levels. Going by previous hints made by Sega. Not to mention Park Avenue itself. 

That level actually reminds me of Unleashed aesthetically, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. That is up there with the best looking Sonic games in the franchise. If the Hedgehog Engine 2 holds up then I'll look forward to seeing what the rest of the levels are like.

[Blue Blood]

On 23/07/2016 at 6:29 AM, Sean said:

I just realized something incredible...

If rolling physics are back in Sonic Mania... then maybe Sega might, just might, improve classic Sonic's physics in this new 3D game too

I don't think my heart can handle this possibility. I need to know more about this game. I NEED THIS

 

On 23/07/2016 at 6:37 AM, Sean said:

I know. But I think Sega are actually paying more attention to what makes classic Sonic games so good, and they might use Mania as a motivation to improve classic Sonic's feel compared to how he felt in Generations. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to happen, and we still need to see the gameplay to make the call, but I'm definitely optimistic for the possibility of rolling physics once more.

 

On 23/07/2016 at 6:39 AM, Miki said:

Just want to say, yes classic Sonic is in the game but it doesn't mean it's gonna be Generations 2. They might so something cool and original with the game. And we are judging the game based on a 1 minute trailer. So I wouldn't be so cynical about this game yet.

 

On 23/07/2016 at 6:54 AM, Sr101 said:

If SEGA wants to include Classic Sonic, fine, but still keep the gameplay fresh and new. He isn't restricted to just 2D stuff. Don't make his inclusion feel like it was just to have 100% 2D levels. Please, for the love of god, make this mostly 3D. We have Mania now. 

 

On 23/07/2016 at 7:25 AM, Soniman said:

My reaction to classic Sonic is less of a rage inducer and more of an annoyed "ehh you could've not done that", again I at least have confidence that the gameplay will help warm me up 

 

On 23/07/2016 at 10:53 AM, Sonikko said:

I'm very excited about this title, I'm down for a boost game with Unleashed's tone, it's basically what I wanted out of the franchise (together with a 2D classic game). Classic Sonic inclusion weirds me out, but if he's got the boost too like the trailer would suggest, it would make him just an excuse to separate 2D levels from the 3D ones maybe? That would be a nice switch, since we never a full 3D level with the Boost formula!

 

On 23/07/2016 at 2:10 PM, Dizcrybe said:

Guys

What if the stages are structured like Colors/Gens but the boost is completely absent?

 

On 23/07/2016 at 5:58 PM, Indigo Rush said:

Okay, not much time right now, but calling it:

This will not be Sonic Generations 2. This is a red herring. Classic Sonic isn't a co-star or main character, but an "assist" or "partner" character, among other favorite Sonic characters that you can rescue or recruit over the course of the adventure to join your "resistance" against Dr. Eggman, and Classic Sonic in particular only features in the trailer for nostalgia reasons and in the story because in his conquest, Eggman royally mangled space-time, so he's along for the ride to help undo this disaster. Other characters like Silver and Blaze can also feature because of said space-time shenanigans. Sonic will be the only directly playable character, but other characters will always be able to tag along with Sonic for extra moves, similar to certain missions in Sonic Generations, such as Knuckles' medal hunting or Tails' flight assist abilities and Rouge's lewd exhibitionism to Egg Pawns. 

Just my theory. As for the actual gameplay, bear in mind that in addition to the slide and boost, Modern Sonic was also spin-dashing and making other "classic" Sonic noises. If Sonic Generation's teaser trailer is any indication, the sound effects and visible moves could indicate how the game plays. Could be the boost with a spin-dash added. Could be a return to the Adventure formula. Maybe Lost World again.

Could be something entirely new (like Iizuka said).

Who knows. Either way, Iizuka stated that this would be a "new experience."

Have fun speculating, y'all.

Reading the initial reactions in this thread is kinda funny. Time changes things. 

[Indigo Rush]

How did I spitball a better game idea than Sonic Team