Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Kintor]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Just spend some time thinking about it.

You make your own character, and if you can do it in future games, you keep buying them to keep inserting your character.

And if you can't and HAVE to play as Sonic, be it solo or what have you, then the player will picture their Custom Character over Sonic basically.

It's true that Sonic Team can continue to include the character creator in future Sonic game, OC characters might even become a mainstay of future Sonic games going forward. However, to suggest that Sonic himself will be replaced is perhaps the most bizarre form of criticism you've come-up with yet. The character creator exists alongside the modern and classic gameplay, to compliment the popular gameplay from Sonic Generations with something. Any future Sonic Generations 3/Sonic Forces 2 will probably be along those same lines: modern Sonic, classic Sonic and the character creator.

 

3 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

This seems more like something you'd want for an MMO really.

Honestly, I think that the character creator has the potentially to be expanding in a full-fledged MMORPG. I mean, Sonic Team already has current experience making MMOs with Phantasy Star Online 2. It's not hard to imagine that in the future we could see a full-fledged 'Sonic Forces Online' that greatly expands on the character creator. Bonus points if it's a VR capable MMORPG, that level of immersion would insane; might even dethrone World of Warcraft as the most popular MMORPG on the planet.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

And if you can't and HAVE to play as Sonic, be it solo or what have you, then the player will picture their Custom Character over Sonic basically.

This is complete and utter nonsense, to the point where I don't even know where to begin with pointing out what nonsense it is. Like, why is this a thing that you would think anyone would do ever? Why would someone buy a game just to pretend a character who is not their character is their character? Why would this only start after a character creator was officially included in a game? If this was a thing anyone would do, wouldn't we already see people pretending Sonic is some other canon character instead of all the complaining about how the other characters aren't playable?

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

This is complete and utter nonsense, to the point where I don't even know where to begin with pointing out what nonsense it is. Like, why is this a thing that you would think anyone would do ever? Why would someone buy a game just to pretend a character who is not their character is their character? Why would this only start after a character creator was officially included in a game? If this was a thing anyone would do, wouldn't we already see people pretending Sonic is some other canon character instead of all the complaining about how the other characters aren't playable?

Well, sick of solo-Sonic for one thing I suppose.

Because of that very reason basically. It has never been encouraged like this before. Once consumers start tinkering with Forces and spending enough time with it, I can see people picturing their character over Sonic in future titles simply out of being sick of Sonic himself as an only option by and large.

Being honest... I wouldn't be surprised if some people have already put their hands up and said "f@$k it, I'm playing as Shadow/Blaze/etc." by now using their imaginations. Mods actually insert who they want in a literal sense though.

So... With mods in mind especially, people HAVE been diving into this territory frequently.

[Zaysho]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Being honest... I wouldn't be surprised if some people have already put their hands up and said "f@$k it, I'm playing as Shadow/Blaze/etc." by now using their imaginations. Mods actually insert who they want in a literal sense though.

So... With mods in mind especially, people HAVE been diving into this territory frequently.

I don't pay $60 to give Sonic Team a pass because I can totally just imagine what I want in place of Sonic or modify my game. I'd rather just come up with my own ideas and do something more creative or just move on to a game actually worth my money.

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I don't pay $60 to give Sonic Team a pass because I can totally just imagine what I want in place of Sonic or modify my game. I'd rather just come up with my own ideas and do something more creative or just move on to a game actually worth my money.

Up to this point it seems SEGA have been silently hinting at consumers that "If you want it, mod it in yourself" to avoid drama.

And now they're literally telling you to "Do it yourself" outright in Forces.

So although crazy it might be, I don't think my theories are off the mark as much as one might believe.

[Darinian]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Well, sick of solo-Sonic for one thing I suppose.

Because of that very reason basically. It has never been encouraged like this before. Once consumers start tinkering with Forces and spending enough time with it, I can see people picturing their character over Sonic in future titles simply out of being sick of Sonic himself as an only option by and large.

Being honest... I wouldn't be surprised if some people have already put their hands up and said "f@$k it, I'm playing as Shadow/Blaze/etc." by now using their imaginations. Mods actually insert who they want in a literal sense though.

So... With mods in mind especially, people HAVE been diving into this territory frequently.

People have been sick of solo Sonic since forever but that does not mean SEGA completely kicks Sonic to the curb as an option. Mods exist and even if they do why would this change their mind at all.

Plus the story would be completely MURDERED if Sonic is replaced by Blank the Blank. 

[Dejimon11]

25 minutes ago, Kintor said:

It's true that Sonic Team can continue to include the character creator in future Sonic game, OC characters might even become a mainstay of future Sonic games going forward. However, to suggest that Sonic himself will be replaced is perhaps the most bizarre form of criticism you've come-up with yet. The character creator exists alongside the modern and classic gameplay, to compliment the popular gameplay from Sonic Generations with something. Any future Sonic Generations 3/Sonic Forces 2 will probably be along those same lines: modern Sonic, classic Sonic and the character creator.

 

And this is my biggest fear out of this. If it succeeds it'll be milked to the ground to the point where everybody is sick of it like the wisp. If it fails it's going be another sonic only fest. It's a lose-lose situation since they have faith in this than letting us play as an already established character than isn't Sonic in anyway shape or form. 

[Kintor]

8 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

And this is my biggest fear out of this. If it succeeds it'll be milked to the ground to the point where everybody is sick of it like the wisp. If it fails it's going be another sonic only fest. It's a lose-lose situation since they have faith in this than letting us play as an already established character than isn't Sonic in anyway shape or form. 

A character creator is a very different concept to the Wisps, one is a completely unique character the other is a power-up, even if the OCs do actually make use of wisp powers for their weapons. Anyway, the point is that people are going to be far more invested in the character creator then they ever were with the wisps.

It's not a case of: "Oh look, there's the wisp's again. " 

It'd be more like: "Yes, there's my character again! "

In this way the character creator can thrive and become its own distinctive part of future Sonic games going forward. With each new iteration of the character advancing the concept further to keep things fresh and interesting. I'm not kidding when I say that a 'Sonic Forces Online' MMORPG with the character creator is a possible long term outcome here.

[Endy]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

How could they realize that? Nintendo's main series games don't have games where multiple characters play too differently...

Yeah exactly. They know it's a bad idea, duh. 

[Dejimon11]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

A character creator is a very different concept to the Wisps, one is a completely unique character the other is a power-up, even if the OCs do actually make use of wisp powers for their weapons. Anyway, the point is that people are going to be far more invested in the character creator then they ever were with the wisps.

It's not a case of: "Oh look, there's the wisp's again. " 

It'd be more like: "Yes, there's my character again! "

In this way the character creator can thrive and become its own distinctive part of future Sonic games going forward. With each new iteration of the character advancing the concept further to keep things fresh and interesting. I'm not kidding when I say that a 'Sonic Forces Online' MMORPG with the character creator is a possible long term outcome here.

I can't really find the right way to explain it but it just feels like a gimmick at the end of the day. I don't think it's going to be something people want to see a staple in the series. Maybe as a spinoff thing but not the next mainline sonic game. 

[Zaysho]

39 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Up to this point it seems SEGA have been silently hinting at consumers that "If you want it, mod it in yourself" to avoid drama.

And now they're literally telling you to "Do it yourself" outright in Forces.

So although crazy it might be, I don't think my theories are off the mark as much as one might believe.

I dunno, that seems like a cynical way of looking at SEGA's lack of reaction toward fan modifications or the intent behind the character creator.

Never mind I find the idea of "if the fans want it, they can do it themselves" just absurd and if people there thought that way at all, I can guarantee you they'd be out of a fucking job because nobody is going to buy their games.

 

17 minutes ago, Kintor said:

In this way the character creator can thrive and become its own distinctive part of future Sonic games going forward. With each new iteration of the character advancing the concept further to keep things fresh and interesting. I'm not kidding when I say that a 'Sonic Forces Online' MMORPG with the character creator is a possible long term outcome here.

I'd actually be fine with the idea of them wanting to do an online Sonic spin-off where the player can create and insert themselves into the world of Sonic and see it however they want. I probably wouldn't play it myself, but that'd be preferable to shoving it in constantly in mainline Sonic games. I play these games to play as Sonic and maybe his friends, not as some sort of self-insert fantasy. There are other/better games for that, and it's the sort of thing that makes me wish Sonic Team would take a break and develop other IPs to test this shit out instead of bogging down their flagship with these incomplete ideas.

[Chris Knopps]

14 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I dunno, that seems like a cynical way of looking at SEGA's lack of reaction toward fan modifications or the intent behind the character creator.

Never mind I find the idea of "if the fans want it, they can do it themselves" just absurd and if people there thought that way at all, I can guarantee you they'd be out of a fucking job because nobody is going to buy their games.

Mmm...

You do have a point... I feel there's something behind the VERY open mindset toward fan modifications though and the, likely, resulting Forces title out of what may have been perceived as a desire from consumers to customize ones own experience to their liking over just inserting existing cast.

Who knows... At the end of it all Forces is a thing and it's going to be a crazy ride from here.

[Alienrun]

Honestly guys I think Chris Knopps is onto something...

If we all just pretend that every game we play has absolutely no flaws, we'd probably enjoy playing games more and noone would ever get mad at a video game company or their respective fanbase ever again! Never mind the fact we have to pay 60$ for these crap games...

But I don't think Sega is that smart so it probably won't happen! :/

[Zaysho]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

You do have a point... I feel there's something behind the VERY open mindset toward fan modifications though and the, likely, resulting Forces title out of what may have been perceived as a desire from consumers to customize ones own experience to their liking over just inserting existing cast.

I'm not sure the two are really related. One seems like trying to make good PR--if it's not affecting their bottom line, why pursue it? I mean, they technically can, but there's not much to gain. Forces seems like another experiment and probably following the trends of games where it sort of fits (hell, I give DB Xenoverse a pass because of the context of the story and what it was built from... even though it could easily be based around Trunks and whoever they want to be part of the Time Patrol as well as legacy characters who show up via time travel). Maybe there's some inspiration from the fan character crowd, too, who knows? My point is that I'm not really reading "Do it yourself" because even if that were the case, that sort of leaves people out in the cold who want established characters.

[Kintor]

38 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

I can't really find the right way to explain it but it just feels like a gimmick at the end of the day. I don't think it's going to be something people want to see a staple in the series. Maybe as a spinoff thing but not the next mainline sonic game. 

I've always found it strange how the word 'gimmick' holds some kind of negative connotation around here. All ideas in video games begin as gimmicks, if that gimmick becomes popular (along with the game itself) then that gimmick becomes an intrinsic part of future games going forward. It's no different now with the character creator in Sonic Forces, the success of this game along with its character creator will see future Sonic games incorporating these ideas.

 

35 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I'd actually be fine with the idea of them wanting to do an online Sonic spin-off where the player can create and insert themselves into the world of Sonic and see it however they want. I probably wouldn't play it myself, but that'd be preferable to shoving it in constantly in mainline Sonic games. I play these games to play as Sonic and maybe his friends, not as some sort of self-insert fantasy. There are other/better games for that, and it's the sort of thing that makes me wish Sonic Team would take a break and develop other IPs to test this shit out instead of bogging down their flagship with these incomplete ideas.

There is nothing incomplete about the character creator; it's a full formed concept and one that's intuitive to understand. You have 3D Sonic game but now with OCs that Sonic fans and general gamers can create themselves. It's the simplicity of this concept that has already gotten a lot of attention across the internet, as the original Custom Hero trailer went viral.

Taking things a step further into the realm of MMORPG is only something that can happen after the success of Sonic Forces, as the next major Sonic game. Much like how World of Warcraft was based on a series of already popular fantasy RTS game; combined with Blizzards RPG experience in Diablo. To that end, Sonic Forces has a lot of potential thanks to its character creator, both in terms of multiplayer spin-offs and as part of future major Sonic games.

[Blacklightning]

47 minutes ago, Kintor said:

There is nothing incomplete about the character creator

Except, you know, actually making any of the characters play differently.

[Kintor]

29 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Except, you know, actually making any of the characters play differently.

We've actually gotten a little more information since the last time we've had this conversation about gameplay here in the Sonic Forces thread. As it turns out there is more variation in the OC gameplay then initially assumed. Seeing as how weapon customisation allows the player to choose (and unlock?) different load-outs for their OC that affect how each level can be completed, which adds to the replay value of Sonic Forces as a whole.

[Endy]

32 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

Except, you know, actually making any of the characters play differently.

I wouldn't say that's a disadvantage. Besides, the different species do have different traits and apparently you can equip new weapons and powers. The only way a character creator could feel incomplete is if it was sorely lacking in customization options, which we'll just have to wait and see.  

[StaticMania]

Just now, Kintor said:

...which adds to the replay value of Sonic Forces as a whole.

Only potentially. That's important.

[Blacklightning]

8 minutes ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

I wouldn't say that's a disadvantage.

How many famous character creators can you name that don't allow you to tweak your character on a gameplay level?

Quote

Besides, the different species do have different traits and apparently you can equip new weapons and powers.

I've already said this repeatedly in this thread, but the species differences are boring. Making rings magnetic isn't any more a unique character trait than the lightning shield is, and that's one of the better ones.

It's a little hard to find any solid info on the Wispons, but everything on a quick Google search seemed to imply that you obtain them in capsules like you would in Colours, so that's not really character customization so much as it is the definition of a powerup monitor? Feel free to shoot me a proper source if I'm wrong though, cos I'd like to know what exactly I'm talking about if I am.

[Endy]

24 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

How many famous character creators can you name that don't allow you to tweak your character on a gameplay level?

The best examples of what you want I can think of are in RPGs, which are a genre that inherently require tons of customization. Sonic Forces is obviously a very different type of game which doesn't allow the freedom that you could get in an RPG like Elder Scrolls or Fallout. Sonic is an arcadey game and I'm not sure how much you're expecting them to allow how your character handles. 

[Blacklightning]

Just now, Paaaaaaaa said:

Sonic is an arcadey game and I'm not sure how much you're expecting them to allow how your character handles. 

Exactly.

To be perfectly frank, that's a huge part of the problem, topped off by the fact that the Sonic series already has a veritable goldmine of characters that each have their own unique themes and gameplay traits, realized or not. Were it up to me, I'd be using them instead of putting the burden of character design on the players. But so long as we're entertaining the notion of custom characters anyway, then I'd have to suggest taking a leaf out of their book - make a bunch of themes, give each a move or two that drastically shapes the way they play, keep the rest of the moveset the same for consistency's sake, then allow players to pick one theme for their character. "Has a gun" is one theme - why not throw in another with Chaos powers, for example? Being able to customize your character on an aesthetic level is one thing, and I'm certainly not here to debate whether they've covered that adequetely, but not everybody wants to kit their avatar with an arm cannon.

[Kintor]

11 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

"Has a gun" is one theme - why not throw in another with Chaos powers, for example? Being able to customize your character on an aesthetic level is one thing, and I'm certainly not here to debate whether they've covered that adequetely, but not everybody wants to kit their avatar with an arm cannon.

You're already getting exactly what you want anyway. It's not 'gun' customisation it's 'weapon' customisation. Like the difference between a projectile launcher and a flamethrower, different technology provides the variety in customisation. Something like Chaos powers carries too much narrative baggage, as thats not something an everyday OC could plausibly have. Going with weapons customisation is the right choices as thats something every OC can conceivable have access to in the story.

[StaticMania]

Just now, Kintor said:

Going with weapons customisation is the right choices as thats something every OC can conceivable have access to in the story.

Does this really matter? People give their OC chaos powers whether it makes sense or not.

[Blacklightning]

10 minutes ago, Kintor said:

You're already getting exactly what you want anyway. It's not 'gun' customisation it's 'weapon' customisation. Like the difference between a projectile launcher and a flamethrower, different technology provides the variety in customisation.

 

1 hour ago, Blacklightning said:

It's a little hard to find any solid info on the Wispons, but everything on a quick Google search seemed to imply that you obtain them in capsules like you would in Colours, so that's not really character customization so much as it is the definition of a powerup monitor? Feel free to shoot me a proper source if I'm wrong though, cos I'd like to know what exactly I'm talking about if I am.

It's not really customization in either definition if it's all just picked up off the ground rather than tailoured to the character, so again if I'm wrong feel free to prove it. Even if I am, though, limiting customization to weapons in a series where characters are typically defined and differentiated by innate abilities is a total cop out.

10 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Something like Chaos powers carries too much narrative baggage, as thats not something an everyday OC could plausibly have.

Not too long ago you were talking about shamelessly pandering to practically any and every audience under the sun if it potentially meant a little extra money. But now, when we're talking about a practical staple of Sonic OCs all across the board, suddenly now we're talking about in-universe plausibility? What the fuck, man. You could at least be consistent about this.