Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Clewis said:

Unless it's something small (i.e. adding Amy or Metal as playable characters), I'd rather they just go ahead and start development on a sequel.

I mentioned this about Generations a while back. I would prefer they get all of their nostalgia out of their systems with DLC until they're as sick and loathsome of old content as consumers by and large, that way newer titles are guaranteed completely new from start to finish.

Release stuff until they're puking from how sick of nostalgia they are, basically. That way we get tons of content for Mania and the next game is all about moving on.

[PerfectChaos]

12 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I mentioned this about Generations a while back. I would prefer they get all of their nostalgia out of their systems with DLC until they're as sick and loathsome of old content as consumers by and large, that way newer titles are guaranteed completely new from start to finish.

Release stuff until they're puking from how sick of nostalgia they are, basically. That way we get tons of content for Mania and the next game is all about moving on.

I still don't understand why they didn't do much with Generations, DLC-wise. Seemed like the one game perfectly suited to getting a bunch of DLC stages further down the line. People would probably have been willing to buy it, and it probably would have been pretty cost-effective for them, no?

[Salamander]

Due to the nature of the Mania project I suspect they aren't planning on any DLC for it, though you never know if they might come up with a pseudo-lock-on proposal for any sequel which might get made.

What about Forces, though?  There's been a certain amount of speculation about costume DLC, but what about level DLC?  Lost World had a few free bonuses of that sort, after all; would the Forces developers consider releasing anything of the kind?  It already seems that they may have changed their usual working practices to involve spending more time on a game, so that could continue post-release as well as pre-release; many were the comments that they missed a trick not releasing any DLC for Generations.  Maybe Boost-style level DLC is more prohibitively costly than you might think?

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, PerfectChaos said:

I still don't understand why they didn't do much with Generations, DLC-wise. Seemed like the one game perfectly suited to getting a bunch of DLC stages further down the line. People would probably have been willing to buy it, and it probably would have been pretty cost-effective for them, no?

From what I understand DLC was a big focus at one point for Generations and I remember word of Ice Cap Zone buzzing about the hive.

Sadly everything was seemingly scrapped and ever since it seems like the company is pushing to get its nostalgia fix in the games.

[Clewis]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Release stuff until they're puking from how sick of nostalgia they are, basically.

Generations utilized nostalgia.

Lost World utilized nostalgia.

Hell, both Mania and Forces are utilizing nostalgia.

Sonic Team isn't going to "get sick" of nostalgia. As long as it's considered marketable, nostalgic material will no doubt continue to be included in some manner. My personal hopes are that a potential sequel features a higher focus on original content (like Sonic 4 Episode 2 did compared to Episode 1), but I wouldn't be too surprised if the concept of remixed levels did return.

Considering how out of touch Iizuka tends to come across as being, I could see him claiming that remixed levels are "integral to the identity of the Mania brand" or something. Hopefully that won't be the case.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Clewis said:

Generations utilized nostalgia.

Lost World utilized nostalgia.

Hell, both Mania and Forces are utilizing nostalgia.

Sonic Team isn't going to "get sick" of nostalgia. As long as it's considered marketable, nostalgic material will no doubt continue to be included in some manner. My personal hopes are that a potential sequel features a higher focus on original content (like Sonic 4 Episode 2 did compared to Episode 1), but I wouldn't be too surprised if the concept of remixed levels did return.

Considering how out of touch Iizuka tends to come across as being, I could see him claiming that remixed levels are "integral to the identity of the Mania brand" or something. Hopefully that won't be the case.

How much longer can it be marketable/profitable however?

Your brand becoming bland/generic/repetitive is as bad as anything else really. People won't keep buying Green Hill Zone forever, in fact from what I can tell it's already reaching a big breaking point.

[Clewis]

14 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

How much longer can it be marketable/profitable however?

For as long as Classic Sonic continues to be the franchise's golden boy, I suppose.

I'm not trying to defend the over-use of nostalgia, I'm just not seeing a lot of reasons as to why Sonic Team would suddenly stop with its inclusion. Maybe when critics start harping on shallow nostalgia-bait like they did toward the constant inclusion of Sonic friends and "serious" narratives, Sonic Team will begin to dial back on it. However, I don't see that happening anytime soon, unfortunately.

[Detective Kaito]

10 levels means only 4 new zones, right? And we've already seen 2 of them, and the third one was leaked. I dunno, but just 4 new zones sounds disappointing. I know that all the rest of the zones will have new level design, but still...

[Chris Knopps]

14 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

10 levels means only 4 new zones, right? And we've already seen 2 of them, and the third one was leaked. I dunno, but just 4 new zones sounds disappointing. I know that all the rest of the zones will have new level design, but still...

After the reception of both Mania and Forces when it comes to nostalgia based inclusions I'd like to assume it's fairly safe to say this is the last of it.

Totally playing this during that Modern Sonic Park Avenue stage by the way.

[TheOcelot]

1 hour ago, Detective Kaito said:

10 levels means only 4 new zones, right? And we've already seen 2 of them, and the third one was leaked. I dunno, but just 4 new zones sounds disappointing. I know that all the rest of the zones will have new level design, but still...

I'm confident there's going to be at least 14 zones. Eight re-imagined (two from each classic) and six new. Iizuka's idea was to re-imagine existing zones "in a new and exciting way", so only taking one zone from each classic would be a pretty underwhelming representation of his idea. It's great Iizuka is happy for brand new zones to appear in Mania, but you can bet he's requested a greater ratio of re-imagined zones, so I'm expecting there to be plenty. I think two zones from each classic (it should be the same number from each game) is a fair representation. 

Everything we've heard from Iizuka and Taxman points towards Mania being at least the size of 3&K which would be ideal.

 

8 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

Okay this whole thing is silly; Blacklightning is right, Kintor is not providing a meaningful argument, same old. If I may change the subject?

How long do y'all think this game is going to be?

Comparable to Unleashed and the Adventure games, or Generations and Colors?

I'm ruling out Unleashed because of the long Werehog stages and large hub-worlds which padded out the games length. I'm expecting Forces hub-world to be simplistic like SLW & Colors. Normally I'm against having hub-worlds like in Adventure or Unleashed, but as it's been so long since Unleashed (nearly 9 years....time flies) I wouldn't mind seeing another hub-world of that scope.

I'm expecting Forces have a lengthy story (I hesitate to say "better" because it's not like the recent stories have been stellar) and for all stages to have a consistent length and none of the stupid side missions like we got in Gens.

I'm thinking Forces will be a similar length to Colors. Maybe it will have a similar design as well; five different locations with six acts in each (two for Modern, classic and OC).

 

[Endy]

6 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

But here I stand again: how long do you think Forces will be, or how long should it be?

My ideal length for a Sonic game is something that takes at least a few hours to beat, perhaps two sittings in two afternoons. I don't expect Sonic games to be super long but something around that length would be okay. The game is obviously going to include some arbitrary padding like every other modern Sonic game so that'll make it at least a bit meatier. If the game is challenging that will make it feel a lot longer, that would be nice. 

[Chris Knopps]

I like a Sonic game that keeps me busy for weeks, so something along SA2 and Unleashed is ideal for me that features missions, unlockables, things of that nature.

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, Clewis said:

 

Considering how out of touch Iizuka tends to come across as being, I could see him claiming that remixed levels are "integral to the identity of the Mania brand" or something. Hopefully that won't be the case.

It will, and then they will make a bad game. And see diminishing returns, and instead of blaming themselves, they again blame the bad game. 

I have said this multiple times, there are ideological problems that are why the franchise is the way it is at this point. And the only way to fix this is a severe loss of money, or people being replaced.

And even if the first one happens, and I think it will, they aren't guaranteed to learn anything. 

[Kintor]

3 hours ago, Paaaaaaaa said:

My ideal length for a Sonic game is something that takes at least a few hours to beat, perhaps two sittings in two afternoons. I don't expect Sonic games to be super long but something around that length would be okay. The game is obviously going to include some arbitrary padding like every other modern Sonic game so that'll make it at least a bit meatier. If the game is challenging that will make it feel a lot longer, that would be nice. 

This is a good way of looking at it. I'd be happy if Sonic Forces is a game that could comfortable be beaten in a week at a normal pace, or even in a couple of days if I do nothing else but play it in that time. Of course it's all about replay value, once I beat Sonic Forces for the first time I'm definitely going to go back and replay all the stages to work on my S-ranks.

[Sonictrainer]

It would be cool if Wispons also have exclusive effects on the Custom Heroes' species.

For example, if you're using a Bird Custom Hero, they're able to fly longer when using the Green and Crimson Wisps or go higher when using the Orange Wisp.

It would also be cool if the Wispons' Color Power abilities could be customized.

We see that the red Wispons use the Red Burst to allow Custom Heroes to burst jump and become a flamethrower. What if it could also create a Flameshield?

What if you could fuse Color Powers?

[JezMM]

I think my ideal would be a 10 hour game for the story, as long as the padding is fun.  After that my only wish is I still am discovering content that feels "new" a good week into playing, even if it's just due to drip-fed secret levels like Colours had with Game Land.

But I'd definitely like a list of tasks to do on par with SA2/Unleashed again to keep me busy for a good month or two.

[Chris Knopps]

Best trailer ever.

[MegasonicZX]

20 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I think my ideal would be a 10 hour game for the story, as long as the padding is fun.  After that my only wish is I still am discovering content that feels "new" a good week into playing, even if it's just due to drip-fed secret levels like Colours had with Game Land.

But I'd definitely like a list of tasks to do on par with SA2/Unleashed again to keep me busy for a good month or two.

Honestly this, like having some general challenges or some stage reuses with a new objective and tweaked layouts would be nice ala generations (and unleashed). I really liked the side missions that we got in generations especially, though i'd rather they not take away from full levels if they are included again here.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

I've had this idea for an anniversary sonic game for a while so now I can finally tell it. So hear this:

What if forces was a game where ( modern sonic only) modern sonic was constantly pulled into the future? The game starts out with sonic fighting eggman in his new device and it does something to sonic that sends him... maybe a few months into the future. With sonic gone, eggman was able to build this huge factory and enslave millions of animals. Sonic arrives at the peak of eggman's victory and at the factory just in time to shut it all down and free the animals. Sonic fights eggman in a new boss mech and defeats him but following eggman's defeat, sonic gets thrown further into the future (about 5 months this time) and arrives to see eggman taking over a futuristic city with a swarm of weaker metal sonics or something. Eggman thinks that he won again but sonic is there to stop him. Eggman is defeated, but sonic is now flung 7 months into the future. Frustrated, eggman wonders how sonic is able to arrive at the exact moment his plans are achieved just to tear it all down. So basically this would be a game where the levels are like at the climax of Sonics future adventures. Think of it as a 'boss game' but a 'FINAL boss game' where the further sonic goes into the future, the world is closer to being destroyed by eggman's evil plots that are messing with it until sonic collects the chaos emeralds and undies it all. Sonics friends will be there as the resistance Keeping eggman at bay until sonic gets to that point in time. It would be called, 'Sonic generations 2 the future'. Here's a couple of lines i came up with:

Eggman: Give up hedgehog! I've beaten you many times already!

Sonic: no matter how much you send me away from my friends, I'm always gonna be back faster and stronger to stop you!!

Feel free to add any suggestions! Bye!

[Chris Knopps]

One more thing...

Rewards for A/S ranks...

Or drop the ranking system.

Nobody gloats about high ranks in Sonic anymore. Give an ACTUAL REWARD for A-ing/S-ing the game.

Adventure 2 did this right. Bring that back or drop ranks. It's pointless otherwise save silent pride in yourself...

And I am not proud of going through the effort of A/S ranking a game for nothing in return.

[Kintor]

High scores are part of the Sonic franchise's arcade roots, the A-ranks and S-ranks aren't going away. Achieving high scores is a compelling part of the replay value, it's about personal betterment, bragging rights are somewhat incidental compared to that.

Besides, I think you'll find many gamers are willing to achieve out all S-ranks without any promise of a tangible reward at the end. Getting that rare achievement on PSN or Steam is usually reward enough. Eventually getting that platinum trophy or equivalent, for earning every achievement in the game, is a great source of pride for many gamers.

[Chris Knopps]

16 minutes ago, Kintor said:

High scores are part of the Sonic franchise's arcade roots, the A-ranks and S-ranks aren't going away. Achieving high scores is a compelling part of the replay value, it's about personal betterment, bragging rights are somewhat incidental compared to that.

 

Besides, I think you'll find many gamers are willing to achieve out all S-ranks without any promise of a tangible reward at the end. Getting that rare achievement on PSN or Steam is usually reward enough. Eventually getting that platinum trophy or equivalent, for earning every achievement in the game, is a great source of pride for many gamers.

Yes, high scores have been. Which is why high scores are saved. You don't need ranks that being the case if there is no reward, you just need the record of the high score itself.

I prefer in-game content unlocked by high ranks. Costumes, items, stages, art, video clips. That is something that can make high ranks in Sonic worthwhile.

[Wraith]

A reward for mastering the levels would be nice but it's not necessary. I find the process of S ranking a level fun enough on it's own.

[StaticMania]

Ranks weren't introduced to unlock stuff...

High scores are validated by ranks...

Unlockables are a bonus...

[blazefan519]

So how about we talk about wispons and how the different wisps could be used in Forces. We already know that Burst is basically more jumps while having an AOE radius, pretty similar to its original form, but more spontaneous and no charge time. Laser seems a bit obvious, just let's you shoot lasers, but what about the other wisps? Would Drill let you dig through the ground or will your arm cannon become a drill and we go full on Gurren Lagann?

I honestly like what I've seen of the wispons so far, since they seem to be instantaneous instead of stopping the pace like it did in Colors, Generations, and Lost World. Hopefully that continues with the other wisps. Also. we still have no idea if Modern and Classic will have access to the other wisps. We see Modern have to use Boost Wisps, but that's all. Classic used wisps in Generations, but that might have only been a one time thing as it was only limited to Planet Wisp. I'm personally hoping that Modern only has the Boost wisps,Classic remains with no wisps, and the Custom Character gets the other wisps.