Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Roger_van_der_weide]

On a technical "is it possible' level, that's true, but on a "does this make a good game" level, that's problematic.

In fact, I already have a sneaky suspicion that some modern Sonic games, in particularly Lost world, have the gameplay designed for an entirely diffrent game then what the level design let's you do, and it's utterly frustrating to me.
Even with Sonic Colors I have that idea past the first 2 worlds. I feel like a Dragracer on a go-kart track.

I'd say in a perfect world, gameplay and level design work tightly together. A Sonic Unleashed level in Mario 3d land would be a cute bonus easter egg thing I suppose, but genuinely playing the game like that seems like a pain. Walking slowly trough endless corridors you're supposed to speed trough.
And oh man, Boost Sonic in a Mario 3d land game? You'd constantly need to hold your instincts back and go trough the stage on tip toe or Sonic would fly off the stage all the time.

[FunkDoc1112]

I think the best approach to boost is making it more like the super peel out. Instead of making Sonic invincible with it, he's instead more open to attack and a little bit more unweildy to control, so players would have to be more judicious in using it. And of course, the gauge is shorter and tied more with momentum. It would be best used when wanting to get through straight paths quickly.

 

And you can put me on the side that wouldn't want to see much, if any 2D gaming in this one. It's become such a defeatist crutch, and I can't be the only one that was just a little disappointed when Classic Sonic showed up in the trailer.

[ChikoLad]

I personally hold the opinion that the boost itself isn't a problem as is.

I've said it before, but a game does not need to be rock hard to be fun. The Classics aren't incredibly challenging, and most challenge from the Adventure games comes from technical snafus, or just poor design.

I felt Generations was already a decent challenge, especially if you went for 100%. Unleashed was legitimately just a very challenging game overall, arguably the most legitimately challenging game in the main series, even without the Werehog.

Both of those games had the boost.

All you really need to do to make Sonic more vulnerable with the boost is:

-More enemies that are capable of effectively attacking or hindering Sonic in some way. Unleashed did a good job of this, by having enemies with electric shields, enemies with spring shields that could launch Sonic into a pit (but you could still steer yourself to safety in some cases), and leech enemies, for example. Also, I've been playing Unleashed recently, and I've actually had Egg Fighters PUNCH ME out of a boost. Bringing those back as well as a few more enemies of that kind (like maybe some kind of unreachable sniper enemy that will automatically target Sonic and shoot him with pinpoint accuracy if he's moving too fast), is a pretty easy way to make the game more challenging and engaging, and makes it so boosting isn't going to make you invincible in all scenarios.

-More trap-filled level design (I personally think Unleashed achieved this in spades already though. ESPECIALLY those Extra and DLC stages).

-Maybe make the boost itself harder to maintain (however, this only makes speedrunning the level more difficult. It actually makes things easier for the average player).

[Diogenes]

Challenge isn't the problem with the boost, engagement and depth are. Boosting through nearly every enemy isn't bad because it's "easy", it's bad because it's boring. You're going to be boosting most of the time anyway, so it doesn't matter if there's enemies in your way or not. There's no decision to be made, there's no "do I dodge left, right, jump over, roll into, something else?". There's not even room to experiment or play with the game's mechanics, because Sonic's abilities are so shallow and anything besides continuing to boost means slowing way down for no benefit.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Yeah as a boost fan even I have to say there's nothing really engaging about it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

As a fellow boost fan, I'm still rather annoyed that for games that are pretty much expecting you to boost the majority of the time(sans Colors that actually allotted you boost fuel strictly via wisps so you were to be more conservative there thank goodness) that there's no option to turn off the "boosting removes bass from the bgm" feature of the boost. I mean, it's a cool feature and all showing how Sonic breaks the speed barrier, but c'mon give a guy a choice to boost the way the game wants ya to while enjoying the songs intact.

[Sonic The Badass]

I enjoyed the boost games. But I'd rather not stick to them. I feel like it's getting old and its too much of a restrictive gameplay style. At the same time that I say it's getting old, depending on how creative they can be with the level design they may be able to bring some more fun into it. But I'd rather us just move on from boost entirely, I don't think it can get that much more creative.

[ChikoLad]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Challenge isn't the problem with the boost, engagement and depth are. Boosting through nearly every enemy isn't bad because it's "easy", it's bad because it's boring. You're going to be boosting most of the time anyway, so it doesn't matter if there's enemies in your way or not. There's no decision to be made, there's no "do I dodge left, right, jump over, roll into, something else?". There's not even room to experiment or play with the game's mechanics, because Sonic's abilities are so shallow and anything besides continuing to boost means slowing way down for no benefit.

Engagement is subjective, and more depth does not equal more engagement for everyone. Sonic Heroes put more depth into how Sonic and friends had to deal with enemies, but not everyone liked it or found it more engaging then past games where defeating an enemy just meant bopping them on the head or spin dashing through them. Lost World added way more depth to the amount of ways Sonic could get around a stage and use terrain to his advantage, but not everyone liked that. I've even seen some people who don't like games like Unleashed because they feel Sonic has too many moves to learn and remember how to use.

Also, saying "there is no room to experiment with the game's mechanics" in relation to the boost games just means you personally haven't experimented with them enough (which would be the result of you deciding the formula in general doesn't engage you to begin with), because there's more than enough. Just look up any speed run of the games and tell me how many of those things you personally can do or have done.

You actually couldn't just boost through every enemy in Unleashed either, that was the point of my previous post. Egg Fighters do have the ability to literally just punch you out your boost sometimes, so even they aren't completely helpless (it's admittedly uncommon, but with improved A.I, they could be a genuine nuisance and make boosting everywhere a risk-reward mechanic, similar to how the Spin Dash works in the Classics). Enemies with electric shields would stop you in your tracks, and enemies with spring shields could send you careening into a pit, and they did this with consistency. And if you let leech enemies latch onto you, you couldn't boost period, and had to shake them off. My point was that the boost doesn't have to be a "win" button, and it never really has been. There are ways you can challenge the boost, or make it less than optimal for a particular situation. It's just a matter of making that so.

There's also plenty of situations where boosting ahead, or boosting on it's own, isn't the fastest option. Light Dash trails being the most obvious example. Serious speedrunners also make it a point to use the stomp for almost every platform in a platforming section, since you land that much faster and can save time by doing so. Plus, just boosting doesn't simply figure out the fastest route for you. How you use the boost itself is important, like using it to propel yourself off little slabs of terrain as a make-shift ramp, or jumping at the end of an upward slope to get a higher jump than usual. This is very similar to how one uses the Spin Dash in Adventure, or even the Classic games. This isn't even getting into stuff discovered by the community, like QSS.

It's fair enough if the boost is inherently unappealing to you, but I think saying "it has no depth" is just admitting to having not experimenting with it because you lacked interest, rather than you lack interest because there is no room for experimentation (because the latter is just objectively wrong, especially when that depth is something some people dislike the game for). Similarly, saying "more depth means it's more engaging" is fundamentally misunderstanding that engagement is a subjective thing and not everyone necessarily wants a Sonic game to be super deep and complex in any aspect.

[Tani Coyote]

I was quite stoked upon seeing this at the Boom event. As someone who really bloomed during the Adventure era, it took more of my interest than Mania (not that there's anything wrong with Mania, of course). The Terminator-style machines destroying everything caught my interest immediately.

While it's said to not be a sequel, I'm confident that mostly means in terms of story and design. It won't be an immediate aftermath, but I highly doubt they'd reintroduce Classic Sonic again, since it would be a waste of time; it would be a loosely-connected game like most Sonic titles, so not a "sequel" in the sense of close continuity. Of course, rather than traveling across time, they could travel across dimensions, so perhaps this is not a past version of Sonic, but another dimension's Sonic who just happens to look like Classic Sonic. Would fit with the "two worlds" thing, right?

I most definitely think the "not a sequel" comment applies in terms of stages. Rather than celebrating two and a half decades of history, it will have its own stages so it can tell its own story rather than be shackled to the past. With a trailer like this, I would certainly hope they have plans for a more detailed plot than what Generations gave us.

Regardless of statements, I'm getting the feeling this is an alternate reality created as a result of the events of Generations, where Eggman has successfully conquered most of the globe.

Some have pointed out the fact there are three robots, perhaps hinting at a third Eggman, such as Boom Eggman. It would certainly be interesting as an idea (and in line with the continued emphasis on all three Sonics), but I can imagine Hell would break loose if so.

[Tomzilla98]

So I saw this video a while ago, and I thought that it was an interesting perspective when thinking about 3d Sonic mechanics. 

 

The only thing that had me curious in this was the fact that the guy never mentioned the Storybook Series as an attempt to move in the direction that he discussed about having Sonic move in a sort of automatic manner like a car. While the playstyles clearly aren't the same, I felt like it would've been a note worthy parallel considering there was a sort of boost mechanic in those games, as well as a brake, which sort of goes along with his idea for a tiered speed system. 

[gingienator]

I am super hyped for this new game. I've never really been this excited for a Sonic game in forever! I actually do enjoy the boost mechanic but I agree that it can be "overused" and such but I'm sure it will be great once we see gameplay soon

tbh I really hope that the line "Join the resistance" possibly hints at more playable characters like Tails or Knuckles. Their own style of gameplay mixed with Sonic's would be interesting.

 

And is it me...or does Classic Sonic being back has something to do with Silver? 

Idk why but I feel like he might've brought him to Modern Sonic or something.

 

Other than that, I can't wait for more news soon!

[Polkadi~☆]

Although turned down by the appearance of Classic Sonic, though I have no problem with him, I'm going to wait for more information. It's only a CG trailer for now.

Though, like others also feel, the "join the resistance" tagline catches my interest. Perhaps more playable characters? Could mean anything.

[Johnny Boy]

6 hours ago, gingienator said:

I am super hyped for this new game. I've never really been this excited for a Sonic game in forever! I actually do enjoy the boost mechanic but I agree that it can be "overused" and such but I'm sure it will be great once we see gameplay soon

tbh I really hope that the line "Join the resistance" possibly hints at more playable characters like Tails or Knuckles. Their own style of gameplay mixed with Sonic's would be interesting.

 

And is it me...or does Classic Sonic being back has something to do with Silver? 

Idk why but I feel like he might've brought him to Modern Sonic or something.

 

Other than that, I can't wait for more news soon!

Well seeing as this could be a time travel plot, it would make sense for Silver to get involved.

[Joellui]

I just hope that Ian Flynn is doing the story for this game and maybe possibly other future games as well, cause the story in the past games, post-unleashed have been very lack luster. 

Hopefully he can portray the characters as he does in the comic, cause they're pretty spot on. And maybe the game itself can get a little bit more serious. 

[LargoDELLZ]

Hopefully more of the extended Sonic cast like Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, etc. will make an appearance and actually be part of the main story if the "Join the Resistance" tag line is anything to go by. This would mean that SEGA is finally comfortable with using characters other than Sonic, Tails, and Eggman for once. I'm also glad that they're going for a more serious tone, most likely in vain of Sonic Unleashed because the same thrills and raised stakes I got with the Adventure games and Unleashed would be a great feeling to experience again.

[Adamabba]

The answer to this question in the interview implies that the friends won't be playable. Aaron said that they need to nail down Sonic's gameplay first.

 

[HyperShadic]

I wonder whether we'll get any more new or trailers from SoS later today...

[FriendBot]

51 minutes ago, HyperShadic said:

I wonder whether we'll get any more new or trailers from SoS later today...

Oooooooh, yeahhhhh about that.

Yeah, it's gonna be a while until we get some new info on Project 2017. Maybe in the Fall or Winter possibly.

[Hiki]

Plot twist: all the other characters were kidnapped by Eggman, and the resistance is every incarnation of Sonic to ever exist. Or at least 60% of the Sonics.

[KHCast]

3 hours ago, Kabalni said:

Oooooooh, yeahhhhh about that.

Yeah, it's gonna be a while until we get some new info on Project 2017. Maybe in the Fall or Winter possibly.

That was specifically referring to a trailer, not general news or pics.

[FriendBot]

True, true but if we don't get anything soon; won't be surprised at all.

[Guest]

Knowing Aaron he`ll be teasing the shite out of us anyways

[Guest]

Going by how early game announcements usually tend to go, I'd be surprised if Sega would show or reveal anything new about the game for any time soon aside from maybe some very small details. I'm pretty sure they'll be focusing on marketing Mania anyway.

[TCB]

Yeah seeing Mania has the closer release window I would think SEGA will be dedicating more towards that along the way, with maybe sprinkles of 2017 here and there but nothing really substantial until likely February-May. 

[Joellui]

21 hours ago, Adamabba said:

The answer to this question in the interview implies that the friends won't be playable. Aaron said that they need to nail down Sonic's gameplay first.

 

I think he had said something similar before as well.

I mean if you're gonna be adding Classic Sonic in games now, how are you ever going to nail down Sonic's gameplay.